Two 1260 day periods ?

[NewMusic]

More Islamic Terror

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj. Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah." According to Ibn Ishaq (324), Muhammad justified the violence further by explaining that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam. Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

 

[NewMusic]

Islam is not a religion. It's a militant, terrorist organization masquerading as a religion. Here's more:

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.

Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story, which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source, tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son.

Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations.

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners," Those who reject Allah are to be subdued in battle. The verse goes on to say the only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is in order to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. "But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," This very important verse asserts that the Religion of Peace is not to grant peace to the broader society until Islamic rule has been established.

Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Quran (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity." This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

 

[Curtis]

Is the 1260 day period mentioned in Revelation 11 the same as the 1260 day period mentioned in Revelation 12?

The two witnesses testify for the first 1260, then Satan is cast down from the first heaven in Rev 12, possesses the body of the antichrist, who then has power to kill the two witnesses, and give the mark of the beast.

Israel then flees Judaea into the desert in revelation 12, when the mid trib son of perdition event occurs in Matthew 24:15, for the last 1260 days, which is the great tribulation.

IMO.

 

[NewMusic]

The two witnesses testify for the first 1260, then Satan is cast down from the first heaven in Rev 12, possesses the body of the antichrist, who then has power to kill the two witnesses, and give the mark of the beast.

Israel then flees Judaea into the desert in revelation 12, when the mid trib son of perdition event occurs in Matthew 24:15, for the last 1260 days, which is the great tribulation.

IMO.

Excellent. You nailed it. Except perhaps the devil personally going into the false prophet, but you may be right on that account, too. Certainly the false prophet is given over to and in the power of Satan.

 

[nenagana]

Two 1260 Day Periods Version 1.1

Moses and Aaron's Age was 1260 Days Apart, when the Exodus Began
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Moses and Aaron's Age was 1260 Days Apart, after the Isreal entered into the Canaan Lands (moses and aaron were dead) (isreal was called dead for entering into canaan, no value) (Num. 33:39-40)
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(God gave them no value, now view the events of today, God expends so much energy in playing suicide, then humanity has no value, humanity just goes on pretending things are normal and then dies, nothing in particular happens)
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(God sent an Angel to King David and said 1260 Days/three years, isreal would be cursed to death for its sin....................but God also Strengthened Isreal in David's name for 1260 Days/three years (2Chronicles 11:17)
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Legal*Legal*Legal - The Gospel's Law is Doubled (the majority of the time)

We said, Joseph = Jesus, and you can reach 1000 Years, of Revelation, counting Jesus lifespan related declarations, or Joseph lifespan related declarations to complete the measurement and we proved this was true previously...............RECALL

RECALL (that prophecy is not originally designed as a measurement, its relating to the gospel's tables in god's discernment) (prophecy is also a literal measurement, God is not entitled to do anything extradionary in the last days) (RABIES and the fall of Jerusalem, perhaps, we must keep watch)

(one value is a general negative, or blindness, perhaps not seeing death is better for the division between the saved and the unsaved)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Is the 1260 day period mentioned in Revelation 11 the same as the 1260 day period mentioned in Revelation 12?

Yes. I do not see a 7-year GT. That is a Pre-Trib view based on the 70th week theory, with a new Temple and a Peace Treaty (Dan. 9)

 

[nenagana]

(sadly no, one 1260 figure is for isreal only or the faithful only, which makes mankind blind and dumb, a grevious sinner)

1Samuel17:13-14 ......... Three Personalities are stated in comparison to King David, much like three peronalities were stated in comparison to Daniel ............ Daniel 1:7.............THEN, God presents the figures like 1260/three years, separately...................... (for daniel and david we see three year or 1260 day figures) (1260 for the blessing of isreal, and 1260 for the cursing of isreal, but we don't see this language with Jesus, before the revelation) (we see that language of three years, like that for some personalities, but not with Jesus before the revelation)

with Jesus Christ, we saw Three Personalities, like David and Daniel, Luke 9:27, or the Three Wise Men.......BUT WE DO NOT SEE "THREE YEARS, OF DAYS" WITH JESUS SPECIFICALLY

What we do see in the revelations, is that (the book of revelation is set aside in a controversy.........we see Jesus and three years or 1260..........but not before that, we don't see three years or 1260 in the gospel' before the controversy of the "revelation ASSOCIATED TO JESUS SPECIFICALLY".........so that is probably important, marking the division of blindness):

One 1260 Day Period = Positive (the faithful, mankind not a witness)
One 1260 Day Period = Negative (or not counted, the unfaithful)

(SINCE ONE VALUE IS NOT COUNTED...............there is only one 1260 Day Period, is a correct answer, but technically there is two)

(a Logical answer is that there was originally two 1260 day periods, but in the events of the revelation, there was modified to only be one 1260 day period)

 

[Davy]

Yes. I do not see a 7-year GT. That is a Pre-Trib view based on the 70th week theory, with a new Temple and a Peace Treaty (Dan. 9)

We've been here before Bruno, the Pre-trib Rapture theory is about a rapture PRIOR to the "great tribulation".

I already showed... you per Christ's Olivet discourse that the "great tribulation" begins in the MIDDLE of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (7 years). That is when the placing of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel that Lord Jesus quoted happens, per Matthew 24:15-22. Per Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31, that abomination is setup in the MIDDLE of the "one week".

Thus the leaven doctrine of man you heed is actually a Pre-trib Rapture in disguise!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We've been here before Bruno, the Pre-trib Rapture theory is about a rapture PRIOR to the "great tribulation".

I already showed... you per Christ's Olivet discourse that the "great tribulation" begins in the MIDDLE of Daniel's symbolic "one week" (7 years). That is when the placing of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel that Lord Jesus quoted happens, per Matthew 24:15-22. Per Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31, that abomination is setup in the MIDDLE of the "one week".

Thus the leaven doctrine of man you heed is actually a Pre-trib Rapture in disguise!

As you say, we have been through this before ... and I have been over this topic for twenty-five years and had many top theologians present it. You are entitled to your view, it is not convincing.

 

[Davy]

As you say, we have been through this before ... and I have been over this topic for twenty-five years and had many top theologians present it. You are entitled to your view, it is not convincing.

I think what God's Word shows about it should be convincing, and that is what I revealed, the 'actual'... Scripture that proves when the "abomination of desolation" is setup (in the middle of the 7 years, which has to mean right before the latter 1260 days.

So you can call that MY VIEW all you want, but you well know it is The Scripture's View, God's View in His Word, and not mine.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Scripture that proves when the "abomination of desolation" is setup (in the middle of the 7 years, which has to mean right before the latter 1260 days.

Do you even know what the abomination of desolation is?
Go ahead, give a shot.

 

[nenagana]

GENESIS 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. (three = 1260)
GENESIS 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters. (three = 1260)

LUKE 3:36 Which was [the son] of Cainan, which was [the son] of Arphaxad, which was [the son] of Sem, which was [the son] of Noe, which was [the son] of Lamech,

Arphaxad, didn't give birth to Cainan............Arphaxad according to genesis was the Son of "Shem", called "Sem" in Luke 3:36..............God is talking about the Generations of Sin, humanities sin uncleannness gave birth to Cainaan from Arphaxad, it was not an act of God.

1260 For the Blessing
1260 For the Curse (not counted, or counted as blindness, no sign or vision, separation from the faithful)

The Figure of "1260" does deal with the Abomination of Desolation

But so do the statements of Jesus on the Cross about the Hours of a Clock..............humanity looses the priviledge that EXISTED in the Old Testament of the "1260 associated to the Curse", because God only blesses the faithful, and the wicked just rot in their pleasure and sin until humanity is dead. (satan has every freedom to exterminate 1 to 2 billion lives, but its about the prayers of the faithful, that blinds satan in its pleasure, until the end of time, when all humanity is dead)

 

[Davy]

Do you even know what the abomination of desolation is?
Go ahead, give a shot.

Certainly...

It's an 'idol' setup in false worship.

The Hebrew word (shiqquts) for "abomination" in Daniel 11:31 is specifically about an idol in false worship.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV


And for the very end in the days just prior to Christ's future return, that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is about this...

Rev 13:14-15
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

That is why Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse told His servants in Jerusalem to flee, when they 'see' that abomination idol setup in Jerusalem for the end; and for those in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time. That is when He said 'then' there will be "great tribulation" (Matthew 24).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The two witnesses testify for the first 1260, then Satan is cast down from the first heaven in Rev 12, possesses the body of the antichrist, who then has power to kill the two witnesses, and give the mark of the beast.

Israel then flees Judaea into the desert in revelation 12, when the mid trib son of perdition event occurs in Matthew 24:15, for the last 1260 days, which is the great tribulation.

IMO.

Interesting. Since the two witnesses have not arrived yet (or maybe they have), we then would still have at least another 3 1/2 years before the GT begins. It's odd, it just feels like we are already in it. But maybe this is just the "begginning of sorrows" leading up to it. I guess I'm just being anxiuos?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Certainly...

It's an 'idol' setup in false worship.

The Hebrew word (shiqquts) for "abomination" in Daniel 11:31 is specifically about an idol in false worship.

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV


And for the very end in the days just prior to Christ's future return, that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel is about this...

Rev 13:14-15
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV

That is why Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse told His servants in Jerusalem to flee, when they 'see' that abomination idol setup in Jerusalem for the end; and for those in the countries to not enter into Jerusalem at that time. That is when He said 'then' there will be "great tribulation" (Matthew 24).

I am not so sure Dan. 11 is future. This could have described what happened in 70 AD in Jerusalem. Remember in Matt. 24, the disciples asked a 2-part question that pertained to two different time periods. The destruction of Jerusalem and His Second Coming. Jesus goes back and forth in His prophecy.
Rev. 13 is future since it was written about 95 AD. The question I have is what is that image? It is an image that looks like the Antichrist or the Beast Himself. I would suggest it is simply a TV that projects his image and speaks (as if life was given ti it). How else would you explain a TV 1900 years ago?
Everyone will see this image on the planet. They are all not in Jerusalem. So they all worship, take orders, pay homage to their ruler this way. In fact scripturea says that this image is put in the "holy place", which can be any or all churches and synagogues. Imo

 

[Davy]

I am not so sure Dan. 11 is future. This could have described wjat happened in 70 AD in Jerusalem. Remember in Matt. 24, the discuples asked a 2-part queatuin that pertained to two different time periods. The destruction of Jerusalem and His Second Coming. Jesus goes back and forth in His prophecy.

Sorry, but Antiochus Epiphanes took Jerusalem in 165-170 B.C. and desolated the temple by ending the daily sacrifices and placing an idol abomination inside the temple. Because that is exactly what the Daniel 11:31 Scripture is pointing to, some scholars believe Antiochus fulfilled that role of the "vile person" in that chapter.

But here Christ is, about 200 years later after Antiochus Epiphanes, and Jesus is quoting that very event in from the Book of Daniel about that abomination idol being setup in Jerusalem future to His day.

So those same ones who want to think the Daniel 11:31 verse was history by Antiochus then resort to another fallacy; they then say that the Romans in 70 A.D. fulfilled what Jesus said.

The reality though is, and this is per the Jewish historian Josephus who lived in 100 A.D., is that the Romans never... got possession of the Jerusalem temple in 70 A.D. That temple burned down before general Titus could seize it. There was NO abomination idol setup in that temple by the Romans. And it does have to match at least what Antiochus did in 165 B.C. with placing an idol inside the temple, meaning a 'standing' temple.

Understanding Lord Jesus within the context of the Signs of the End He was giving in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 reveals that abomination idol event is to take place for the "great tribulation" time at the END of this world. So really, it's a no brainer for one who sticks with the written Scripture. It's only those of men's doctrines that try to steer brethren away from that coming abomination mystery for the end, because Satan wants to deceive as many as possible at the end of this world when he comes to Jerusalem as the Antichrist.

Rev. 13 is future since it was written about 95 AD. The question I have is what is that image? It is an image that looks like the Antichrist or the Beast Himself. I would suggest it is simply a TV that projects his image and speaks (as if life was given ti it). How else would you explain a TV 1900 years ago?
Everyone will see this image on the planet. They are all not in Jerusalem. So they all worship, take orders, pay homage to their ruler this way. In fact scripturea says that this image is put in the "holy place", which can be any or all churches and synagogues. Imo

I can only surmise that it will be a literal idol image, but seen by all through today's media, just like how the nations will see the dead bodies of God's two witnesses laying in the street per Rev.11. There is a reason why the Babylon Harlot is so called for the end. I believe the coming Antichrist is to represent the historical king of Babylon as a symbol and his kingdom as symbolic of old Babylon. The historical king of Babylon did that exact thing of setting up an image of gold of himself, and demanding that all worship it at the sound of the psalter. Daniel refused to bow, and was delivered up for refusing.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So those same ones who want to think the Daniel 11:31 verse was history by Antiochus then resort to another fallacy; they then say that the Romans in 70 A.D. fulfilled what Jesus said

I am just not sure which time period it was referring to. But you are.

The reality though is, and this is per the Jewish historian Josephus who lived in 100 A.D., is that the Romans never... got possession of the Jerusalem temple in 70 A.D. That temple burned down before general Titus could seize it. There was NO abomination idol setup in that temple by the Romans. And it does have to match at least what Antiochus did in 165 B.C.

An idol doesn't have to be present for it to be an abomination. Titus did cause desolation, meaning kiling and scattering the town and leaving it empty.

I can only surmise that it will be a literal idol image, but seen by all through today's media

So you agree with the image portrayed on TV. Do you thinknit is an inanimate statue of himself that he actually gives life to?
I just think it is him being filmed and that is how prophecy could explained TV.

I believe the coming Antichrist is to represent the historical king of Babylon as a symbol and his kingdom as symbolic of old Babylon

.
Years ago, Sadaam Hussein wanted to rebuild Babylon and might have thought of himself as Nebuchadnezzar II. But it never happened fir him.
I think all false religions and philosphies came out of Babylon and spread throughout the world. And so the entire world system is Babylon, the Harlot whom the world fornicated with.

 

[Davy]

I am just not sure which time period it was referring to. But you are.

Yeah, I am sure. And that because of how God in His Word sometimes gives us blueprints from history that serve as "ensamples" for us upon whom the ends of the world have come (1 Corinthians 10:11). Haven't you ever wondered why "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" from Isaiah 21 about historical Babylon's fall is repeated in Revelation word for word?

An idol doesn't have to be present for it to be an abomination. Titus did cause desolation, meaning kiling and scattering the town and leaving it empty.

Don't give me that rubbish. And don't think I'm not aware of another of 'their' false doctrines to try and create the abomination having happened in 70 A.D. by the Romans. They try to say the Roman's eagle staff symbol standing in the court of the destroyed temple served as fulfillment. That's just another denial of the actual Scripture about the real idol abomination to be setup in a rebuilt temple for the end, and remember, no need for another physical temple was one of the ideas you pushed in your original post.

And yet there's another... one of their false ideas you push here to get away from the real abomination of desolation event from Daniel 11; the idea of the "desolation" being about physical desolation/destruction is one of their false ideas.

The meaning of the "desolation" in Daniel 11:31 is about SPIRITUAL DESOLATION by false worship. Where in 70 A.D. was there an IDOL setup in false worship doing SPIRITUAL DESOLATION? Where was false worship there in 70 A.D. Jerusalem? Josephus said nothing about that for that time.

So you agree with the image portrayed on TV. Do you thinknit is an inanimate statue of himself that he actually gives life to?
I just think it is him being filmed and that is how prophecy could explained TV.

Don't know yet, it just says, "image of the beast", which like I said before, the Revelation connection to old Babylon as a symbol for the end beast points to the old king of Babylon idol worship in Daniel's day. Historically, Nebuchadnezzar setup a gold image idol of himself, and that is what Daniel refused to bow in worship to.

Years ago, Sadaam Hussein wanted to rebuild Babylon and might have thought of himself as Nebuchadnezzar II. But it never happened fir him.
I think all false religions and philosphies came out of Babylon and spread throughout the world. And so the entire world system is Babylon, the Harlot whom the world fornicated with.

That's correct. But before there was Babylon, it was ancient Sumer. The Babylonian tablets speak of ancient Sumer, and a foreigner who appeared among them that gave them knowledge of science (canal building) and agriculture. They called him 'son of Bel' (son of the dragon). I believe that was Cain once he was cast out to the land of Nod. Thus Nod = ancient Sumer in my opinion).

 

[Timtofly]

Interesting. Since the two witnesses have not arrived yet (or maybe they have), we then would still have at least another 3 1/2 years before the GT begins. It's odd, it just feels like we are already in it. But maybe this is just the "begginning of sorrows" leading up to it. I guess I'm just being anxiuos?

It seems that even Christians would refuse to give up their theology and accept the message of the 2 witnesses.

They hold so many different views and defend them so well. Not one person seems to accept Scripture 100%. Each has something off enough to make them fight each other to defend the one point they are wrong about.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It seems that even Christians would refuse to give up their theology and accept the message of the 2 witnesses.

Doubt it. The witnesses preach to non-believing Jews and Gentiles about Christ.
We are already on board and would be in total agreement.