A NEW TAKE ON THE AOD

[Dave Watchman]

I'll agree with that and all the amimal kingdom at peace too. I wonder if God will recreate my dog for me? The resurrection and eternal life is promised to us only. I guess like Lot's wife ... we just can't look back. I am sure we will be more than happy in Paradise and with a new body - that is what I need right now ... 65 years old and counting.

Thanks for being nice, or at least cordial, to nenagana. I know some of the things he says can sound disjointed, like that Dali painting of the melting clocks, but I think his heart is in the right place. As I can recall from another forum.

And he has the persistence of memory to picture his Bible better than me so can bring up a good point, like:

....................if that area is holy, or still is holy, they would be driven out more often cyclically,

Is the land of genetic Dan still the holy land? Or are they just holding up a sign now, the two modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem?

The Abomination has to be standing in a holy place, a place where it ought not to be.

A place prepared by God.

I'm pretty sure that with God all things are possible. He could reach back through time itself and get our animals back for us. But who knows? Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

 

[bbyrd009]

@marks We learn in the NT for example that Lot was just, but as for Saul, I don't know of any Scripture clarification as to his true state before God at the end (though I can strongly guess...)

The name Saul: Summary

Meaning
Asked For

 

[bbyrd009]

I think a some of us have our guesses. I'm not one to base doctrine on my guess thought. To assume that Samuel and Saul shared the same eternal destiny, and to make that the template for our own expectations seems rather weak to me.

Much love!

i would not rely on just those, myself…but i would also point out that i have no expectations now

 

[bbyrd009]

Here again is confirmation that the souls survives death

would seem so at first, but i suggest that we still refer to Shakespeare’s breathings…iow the v might be saying that Yah can even “destroy” that?
Unless Strong’s has a really bad definition of psuche i mean Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- breath, the soul

 

[marks]

I got "cutting off" from the root of the word, Kolazo

OK. Thank you! Now I understand why you have said what you've said.

My studies have shown me differently.

Much love!

 

[marks]

i would not rely on just those, myself…but i would also point out that i have no expectations now

I understand.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

What is it?

 

[nenagana]

Is the land of genetic Dan still the holy land? Or are they just holding up a sign now, the two modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem?

The Abomination has to be standing in a holy place, a place where it ought not to be.

A place prepared by God.

I'm pretty sure that with God all things are possible. He could reach back through time itself and get our animals back for us. But who knows? Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

(thinking) (The Legal Statement in the "AOD", is that, Matthew is for the Kings of Judah (AOD (joseph disappointed), and Luke is for King David's Line (God's Mercies Presentation (priesthood)

EZEKIEL 27:17 Judah, and the land of Israel, they [were] thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.
EZEKIEL 27:18 Damascus [was] thy merchant in the multitude of the wares of thy making, for the multitude of all riches; in the wine of Helbon, and white wool.
EZEKIEL 27:19 Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market.
EZEKIEL 27:20 Dedan [was] thy merchant in precious clothes for chariots.
EZEKIEL 27:21 Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these [were they] thy merchants.
EZEKIEL 27:22 The merchants of Sheba and Raamah, they [were] thy merchants: they occupied in thy fairs with chief of all spices, and with all precious stones, and gold.
EZEKIEL 27:23 Haran, and Canneh, and Eden, the merchants of Sheba, Asshur, [and] Chilmad, [were] thy merchants.
.................
.................
(Reply) (Thinking)
I KINGS 10:10 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones: there came no more such abundance of spices as these which the queen of Sheba gave to king Solomon.
I KINGS 10:11 And the navy also of Hiram, that brought gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir great plenty of almug trees, and precious stones.
.................
.................
"Genetic Dan", is not considered in occupation of a "Holy Land"..............the reason is, we are trying to make these statement simple.

1. The Lord's Body is Described in Ezekiel it has all the Tribes................the Lord's Body is not Described in the New Testamen when all the Tribes are presented in Revelation, is this clear ?

(Updated to Legal)
1. God does not list Solomon's Wife of Sheba, which the Gospel ties to "Genetic Dan", in the association to the Kings of Judah (which Solomon was a King of Judah for disappointing Joseph, in abuse of God's Mercies)

2. God uses the wife of Solomon called RUTH, which is associated to "Ephraim the Jewish Peoples, as the Book of RUTH denotes the jews occupation of the HOLY LAND (in the Kings of Judah Genealogy of Matthew)

(Updated to Legal)

1. "Genetic Dan is not considered in Occupation of a Holy Land (in jerusalem/isreal)
2. "Ephraim is considered in Occupation of a Holy Land (in jerusalem/isreal)
(this is counted as a curse)
....................
....................
(Remember the Gospel of Jeremiah 4,8 and Zechariah 14, talks about the Ousting of the Jewish People specifically in the last days as a controversy of sin for Isreal/Jerusalem....................this is apart of an AOD statement the gospel issues)
....................
....................
....................
....................
....................
....................
we said that we didn't think it was faithful, to call coronavirus/COVID-19, either the AOD, or linked to the AOD, at this developmental stage, because the primary notifiers, of a earth field reaction, or significan biological reaction are just not present, there is perhaps another event, and COVID-19, maybe separated from that its too early to tell, and we must keep watch......................the only description we have of AOD, is that, (the antichrist is either a jewish male, tied to the jewish people, or comes out of their biology or identifies with it, then effects all peoples.............COVID19 is reported to come from asia if that is correct reporting).
....................
(we believe in legal evidences)

 

[Timtofly]

cont...
Perish and destroy mean: to cause cessation of being; utterly ruin; consume; demolish; to put an end to; to kill. Although perish sometimes means lost or no longer fit for intended use or marred, when pertaining to objects like a wine skin.

" that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:15

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thes. 2:8
Here are some other verses that address the cutting-off concept of death:
Matt. 7:19; Luke 3:9
Then an important verse concerning both body and soul. Foe thise who think the soul is eternal, think again. God can and will destroy many souls. Notuce the scripture equates kill and destroy and tells us where it will happen:
"Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." Matt. 10:28
We all know what killing the body means. Here again is confirmation that the souls survives death. Anything that is destroyed means it is put to an end. It may be an immediate kill or a process of a slower death, but inevitably the end comes, the end of existence.
" in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall suffer justice - destruction age-during - from the face of the Lord. and from the glory of His strength." 2 Thes. 1:8, 9 YLT
How morbid is all this talk about death in one way but how wonderful in another.

Does the verse say God does destroy or is able to destroy?

Putting souls in Sheol or even the Lake of Fire does not mean they are killed. It can mean they are not able to enjoy life. Some souls do not even enjoy life in the here and now.

Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things even though similar. Even the Lake of Fire is preservation. We have no clue as to what God's "future" plans are. We barely even grasp that time is a created phenomenon, and God is outside of time. "Future" does not even begin to describe God plans.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Does the verse say God does destroy or is able to destroy?

You can read it, but you cannot discern the meaning.

Putting souls in Sheol or even the Lake of Fire does not mean they are killed.

Sheol is a temprary prison.
The Lake of Fire (Hell) means destruction, perish.
Let's not imply that there is such a thing as an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing. Let's not change the meaning of death either. Death in the physical realm means all physical functions cease. It means the end of your physical existence. We should expect no different for the death of a soul.

Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things even though similar.

Yes. But are we to believe that the Bible is giving us an empty threat to fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul?

Even the Lake of Fire is preservation.

Really. I doubt people, when they want to preserve anything, throw it in the fire.

We have no clue as to what God's "future" plans are. We barely even grasp that time is a created phenomenon, and God is outside of time. "Future" does not even begin to describe God plans.

The Bible is sufficient and discloses a basic outline of our future in heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

You can read it, but you cannot discern the meaning.


Sheol is a temprary prison.
The Lake of Fire (Hell) means destruction, perish.
Let's not imply thatbthere isnsuch a thing as an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing. Let's not change the meaning of death either. Death in the physical realm means all physical functions cease. It means the end of your physical existence. We should expect no different for the death of a soul.

Yes. But are we to believe that the Bible is giving us an empty threat to fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul?


Really. I doubt people, when they want to preserve anything, throw it in the fire.


The Bible is sufficient and discloses a basic outline of our future in heaven.

There are no realms. Existence is not a magical fantasy game.

Sheol is hell. The Lake of Fire has not been created yet.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There are no realms. Existence is not a magical fantasy game.

Sheol is hell. The Lake of Fire has not been created yet.

Sheol (Hades) is the underworld, the netherworld,
a place where the dead ungodly go. The Lake of Fire is Hell and yes, not created yet. Most likely at the end if the Millennial Kingdom, when the first earth and the heavens and death and Hades are destroyed.
But whatever you have settled it is in your mind, go with that - It doesn't matter to me.

 

[Timtofly]

Sheol (Hades) is the underworld, the netherworld,
a place where the dead ungodly go. The Lake of Fire is Hell and yes, not created yet. Most likely at the end if the Millennial Kingdom, when the first earth and the heavens and death and Hades are destroyed.
But whatever you have settled it is in your mind, go with that - It doesn't matter to me.

Most accept that "hell" is currently sheol. Certainly the angels have not been locked up in the LoF, but in sheol, ie "hell".

If Jesus was talking about the Lake of Fire, then those parables would be about Him on earth at the Second Coming. They are future events.

 

[PinSeeker]

The lake of fire is a real place, for sure, but should not be seen as woodenly literal. It is a figurative representation of the place where the unrepentant will be in eternity ~ with the devil and his minions ~ totally immersed in God's judgment, finally rendered at the Judgment, which will be executed by Jesus just after His return and the resurrection. It is at least somewhat depicted, graphically, in Jesus's parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. Those who go there are not destroyed in the sense of ceasing to exist, but rather entering into ruination. In the parable, the rich man cannot cross from that place where he is in anguish and torment or even be given any comfort; he is totally alone, without hope, and ruined ~ destroyed. It's a terrifying picture of the lake of fire.

Grace and peace to all!

 

[Timtofly]

The lake of fire is a real place, for sure, but should not be seen as woodenly literal. It is a figurative representation of the place where the unrepentant will be in eternity ~ with the devil and his minions ~ totally immersed in God's judgment, finally rendered at the Judgment, which will be executed by Jesus just after His return and the resurrection. It is at least somewhat depicted, graphically, in Jesus's parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16. Those who go there are not destroyed in the sense of ceasing to exist, but rather entering into ruination. In the parable, the rich man cannot cross from that place where he is in anguish and torment or even be given any comfort; he is totally alone, without hope, and ruined ~ destroyed. It's a terrifying picture of the lake of fire.

Grace and peace to all!

Jesus was not talking about the Lake of Fire concerning the rich man and Lazarus. He was talking about sheol, the place of the dead. There was an abyss between Abraham's bosom and the place of torment in sheol. This is not the Lake of Fire, because at the GWT event sheol is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Sheol may not be a literal place, or there may not be a place under the earth, like exist on the surface. Too many people accept Satan's version of creation, to convince people of a literal place. At the least it is a literal condition of souls in torment waiting for the GWT. Some souls have been there for almost 6000 years. Has it felt like 6000 years to them? I don't know the answer to that question.

I think the Lake of Fire is a phenomenon that starts at the Second Coming, at the 6th Seal event, when the heavens literally dissolve in fire. This is possibly the start of the LOF.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Most accept that "hell" is currently sheol. Certainly the angels have not been locked up in the LoF, but in sheol, ie "hell".

If Jesus was talking about the Lake of Fire, then those parables would be about Him on earth at the Second Coming. They are future events.

I know. But remember Hades and Death are both cast into the Lake of Fire and destroyed (Rev. 20:14), which is the second death that all who are in Hades await. The angels were locked up in a lower part of Sheol called the Abyss/Bottomless Pit, (Tartarus - 2Pet. 2:4) separated from souls. The angels locked there await final judgment as well, (see Jude 1:6 ... "unto the judgment of the Great Day').
Again, I think the final judgment for everything including the first earth and heavens, Hades, death, ungodly souls, Satan and angels, will be the Lake of Fire. 2 Peter 3:10 describes this event: "... the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

I think Jesus talked about both Sheol (in Luke 16:23-31) and the Lake of Fire (Matt. 23:33), which He referred to as Gehenna. The idea of Hell came from this place called Gehenna. It is translated as Hell is some Bible versions. It gives us a tangible glimpse of the future place and event, which I see as the totality of destruction on and in earth and the heavens. Keep in mind, "All former things shall pass away". Gehenna of the past is a shadow representation of Hell on earth after the Millennial Kingdom. The location of Hell, not Hades, is revealed by the spectators who actually view the damned souls getting thrown into the Lake of Fire.
"Terror and pit and snare
Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit,
And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare;
For the window above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
The earth is broken asunder,
The earth is shaken violently.
The earth reels to and from like a drunkard
And it totters like a shack,
For its transgression is heavy upon it,
And it will fall, never to rise again.
So it will happen in that day,
That the Lord will punish the host of heaven on high,
And the kings of the earth on earth.
They will be gathered together
Like prisoners in a dungeon,
And will be confined in prison;
And after many days they will be punished." Isaiah 24:17-22
Now recall the angel who opens up the Bottomless Pit in Rev. 9:2, "smoke went up out of the pit, like smoke from a great furnace". That along with the verse below, suggests a super volcanic eruption that opens up a fissure in the earth, possibly forming a lava lake. People are thrown into this pit with a lava lake. They may try to cling to the sides and escape but are caught in a snare.
"So, just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of the His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in the place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," Matt. 13:40-42
This has been a mysterious verse, where it is and what the gnashing of teeth is. The remaining evil inhabitants of the earth are judged. They are weeping in fear, misery and pain. The gnashing of teeth can be interpreted as grinding them in anger and pain. Where? On earth. Most likely a place outside of Jerusalem.
The Dead Sea area is part of the Great Syrian/African Rift and has a history of volcanic activity. Sodom and Gomorrah existed on the east side of The Dead Sea also called The Sea of Sodom, The Sea of Lot, The Devil's Sea. This area was opened up and devoured the cities. Maybe it will be opened again. Jesus returns and stands on a mountain that is split in two; so this also suggests a massive cataclysmic event, a worldwide earthquake coupled with this opening up of the the Abyss and letting out demon locusts in its smoke who torture mankind. How exciting!

This can also be a temporal event during the GT, when fire comes from the Pit, when the earth is opened up.
"For a fire is kindled in My anger,
And burns to the lowest part of Sheol,
And consumes the earth with its yield,
And sets on fire the foundation of the mountains." Deut.32:22
Fire from beneath the crust of the earth surfaces and sets the earth on fire. Remember 1/3 of the earth is on fire during the GT. This describes a volcanic eruption. Also the the 2nd Trumpet suggests this: "something like a huge mountain of fire gets thrown into the sea".
Hell on earth is coming, literally!

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus was not talking about the Lake of Fire concerning the rich man and Lazarus. He was talking about sheol, the place of the dead. There was an abyss between Abraham's bosom and the place of torment in sheol. This is not the Lake of Fire, because at the GWT event sheol is cast into the Lake of Fire.

Sheol may not be a literal place, or there may not be a place under the earth, like exist on the surface. Too many people accept Satan's version of creation, to convince people of a literal place. At the least it is a literal condition of souls in torment waiting for the GWT. Some souls have been there for almost 6000 years. Has it felt like 6000 years to them? I don't know the answer to that question.

I think the Lake of Fire is a phenomenon that starts at the Second Coming, at the 6th Seal event, when the heavens literally dissolve in fire. This is possibly the start of the LOF.

Hm. I don't completely disagree...

The rich man in the parable has indisputably died, and the time period of the parable is prior to His return and the "GWT event" you refer to, the final Judgment, executed by Christ Jesus. So the rich man is in Sheol, the figurative realm of the dead, and in what we have come to call the intermediate state, awaiting the resurrection and the final Judgment. Believers are also in this state, but in, of course, a different place. The biblical evidence is that our souls continue on after death, remaining conscious in this intermediate state while awaiting our final destiny of resurrected, bodily existence in the age to come, eternity, either in death in the figurative lake of fire (immersed in God's judgment, as previously said) or in life in the new heavens and new earth with Jesus.

Regarding the passage of time in this intermediate state, I would say ~ or at least speculate ~ that we will then be outside of linear time as God Himself is. of God, Psalm 90 says ("[f]or a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night" ~ Psalm 90:4) and Peter references ("one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" ~ 2 Peter 3:8).

So, to what you say about the lake of fire specifically, that Jesus was not talking about it in Luke 16, I would both agree and disagree. His parable immediately described this intermediate state, but was certainly indicative of a greater, future reality, symbolically referred to in Revelation 20 as the lake of fire.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[PinSeeker]

Fire from beneath the crust of the earth surfaces and sets the earth on fire. Remember 1/3 of the earth is on fire during the GT. This describes a volcanic eruption. Also the the 2nd Trumpet suggests this: "something like a huge mountain of fire gets thrown into the sea". Hell on earth is coming, literally!

In my humble opinion... this is way, way, to literalistic. What will happen will certainly be a literal event (or sequence of events). I'll just say it like this:

Revelation should be read as a picture book, or even a fantasy novel. That's certainly not to say that it is fiction, of course, but symbolic of real events. It is, after all, a John's dream/vision. In what you say here, I would say you can substitute a) God's judgment for 'fire' (God is a consuming fire, as you know), b) the corporate body of the unrepentant (as opposed to the body of Christ) for 'huge mountain' and c) hell for 'the sea.'

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Keraz]

In my humble opinion... this is way, way, to literalistic. What will happen will certainly be a literal event (or sequence of events). I'll just say it like this:

Revelation should be read as a picture book, or even a fantasy novel. That's certainly not to say that it is fiction, of course, but symbolic of real events. It is, after all, a John's dream/vision. In what you say here, I would say you can substitute a) God's judgment for 'fire' (God is a consuming fire, as you know), b) the corporate body of the unrepentant (as opposed to the body of Christ) for 'huge mountain' and c) hell for 'the sea.'

Grace and peace to you.

Why do people go off into realms of fantasy about Revelation?
Revelation 1:1, is given to us so as we will know what God has planned for our future. John 'saw' it all.

We also have a lot of prophecy elsewhere in the Bible and when it is all put together, a coherent and logical scenario emerges. Of course though, not to those who have already decided what they want God to do for them.

However; all we really need to know right now, is the next prophesied event will be the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath. The Sixth Seal; Revelation 6:12-17 Proved by how Jesus stopped quoting Isaiah 61:1-2, before that point.
This worldwide disaster will mainly affect the Middle East region, but many will die around the world and we will lose our modern infrastructure.

 

[nenagana]

Does the verse say God does destroy or is able to destroy?

Putting souls in Sheol or even the Lake of Fire does not mean they are killed. It can mean they are not able to enjoy life. Some souls do not even enjoy life in the here and now.

Having the ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things even though similar. Even the Lake of Fire is preservation. We have no clue as to what God's "future" plans are. We barely even grasp that time is a created phenomenon, and God is outside of time. "Future" does not even begin to describe God plans.

(Thinking) (A Question about the Fallacy of a College or University)

The Horizon of the Sun Rising, and the Solar Eclipse, these represent the "black squares/circles/triangles" that are darkened in the "zodiac killer's diagram".

The author means to say that, the natural function of what we observe is already nullified, and the dial is turned back to ensure this is nullified, based (the door is closed), based on the false witnessing or lethal force, used against that individual in view.

Nothing about the statement is predatory, nor, is this linked to any serial killings or criminal activity................you have a college or university, trying to apply an algorithim to a statement that is face value, and it not designed with any complexity (from the intrepretation of the author).

The statement of of euthanasia by minorities or jews is not important, just a category of assault against his testimony, or body, doesn't matter how much or how often, that would satisfy the argument (blind and dumb death).

(Bible Question Co-Relation)
(with discussion like the "AOD/abomination of desolation", not sure how bad this is or if this should be divided by the new age bible versus the cannon bibles, of the greek, original hebrew or king james.............forget that, lets make an assumption)

"""Putting souls in Sheol or even the Lake of Fire does not mean they are killed. It can mean they are not able to enjoy life. Some souls do not even enjoy life in the here and now."""

******(The Book of Psalms..............is a description of the "Lake of Fire", remember, a person with salvation, will look at God and say, this is the beginning of mercy, but a person that cannot recieve Jesus, will say, when they see the "Lake of Fire", that they are not able to enjoy life) -Happy Thanksgiving