Sabbath Issues

[Brakelite]

But the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath

But? What do you mean, but? Is it a bad thing that God made the Sabbath for man? Why did God do that, making the Sabbath for man?

 

[strobe]

Modern Jewish-Christians....I believe it is a misnomer.
So my questions are about if you believe it exists? And if so....how? What does it look like in motion?

I think I've answered that as best I can but the question doesn't really make sense to me any more than "what does American Christianity look like?"

 

[Grailhunter]

I think I've answered that as best I can but the question doesn't really make sense to me any more than "what does American Christianity look like?"

Very simple question....what is a Jewish Christian?
Or what part of the Old Testament are you trying to hang on to, as a Christian?

 

[strobe]

But? What do you mean, but? Is it a bad thing that God made the Sabbath for man? Why did God do that, making the Sabbath for man?

Errr. No. It's a very good thing. Why?

 

[Brakelite]

but the Jewish ceremonial sabbath

ceremonial? Can you explain that please?

 

[Brakelite]

Errr. No. It's a very good thing. Why?

Okay. If it's such a good thing why are so many ignoring it, or deliberately casting it aside in favor of a day dedicated to a sun god?

 

[Brakelite]

...but a Gentile believer does not have to adopt the Jewish ceremonies and ways in order to be an authentic Christian (this is a strong message in Acts). Those elders in Jerusalem in Acts 21 were seriously misled. Look indeed what happened next; Paul did not even get to finish his offering in the temple before events took their course which showed just how vast was the difference between the lawkeepers and Paul as a pilgrim believer in Christ under grace.

(Here's a good quote: )

As far as lawkeeping and Sabbath-keeping and even the outwardly correct form of a past system are concerned, I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

I would again emphasize that I belong with the carcasses of dead animals good only to be burned on the trash heap, out of sight and out of mind.

This is where the Lord Jesus is.

"For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.11-15)

Interesting. Yet in Revelation Christians are described as keeping God commandments. Revelation 12:17;14:12

 

[Brakelite]

The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites, not to us.

So only Israelites were required not to steal?

 

[strobe]

Okay. If it's such a good thing why are so many ignoring it, or deliberately casting it aside in favor of a day dedicated to a sun god?

I don't know. You'll need to ask them that.

 

[strobe]

So only Israelites were required not to steal?

Is it possible to steal and love your neighbour?

 

[Aunty Jane]

...but a Gentile believer does not have to adopt the Jewish ceremonies and ways in order to be an authentic Christian (this is a strong message in Acts).

FWIW.....farouk is correct.....the Sabbath was not incumbent upon Christians. It was part of the Law given to Israel exclusively, so it was never required of the Gentiles who became disciples of Christ. Jesus and all the first Christians were Jewish, and required under the law to keep Sabbath. It is important to remember that Jesus was Jewish....he was not a Christian.

Christ's death ended the Law (Romans 10:4) and introduced a new covenant with different rules to the old one. Jeremiah prophesied about it.....

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”

33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31-33)

Deuteronomy 5:15....
"Remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and that Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."

That the Sabbath was not enjoined upon any of God’s servants until after the Exodus is evident from the testimony of Deuteronomy 5:2, 3 and Exodus 31:16, 17: “It was not with our forefathers that Jehovah concluded this covenant, but with us.” “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath . . . during their generations. . . . Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” If Israel had already been observing the Sabbath, it could not have served as a reminder of their deliverance from Egypt.

So unless you are Jewish and consider the old covenant to still be in force, there is no command to keep Sabbath for Christ's disciples.

When issues arose over the Jewish Christians wanting the Gentile brothers to be circumcised, it was creating dissension in the congregations, so it was taken to the elders in Jerusalem to give a final verdict. After much discussion of the scriptures and prayerful consideration in holy spirit, this was the admonition given to all the congregations....

Acts 15:28-29...
"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

What was missing from these "necessary things"...? Circumcision and Sabbath keeping. These were not requirements for Christians. Even Jewish Christians were no longer required to adhere to these Jewish Laws.....they could still observe them if they wished....but they were not to impose them on others or to judge them.

 

[quietthinker]

FWIW.....farouk is correct.....the Sabbath was not incumbent upon Christians. It was part of the Law given to Israel exclusively, so it was never required of the Gentiles who became disciples of Christ. Jesus and all the first Christians were Jewish, and required under the law to keep Sabbath. It is important to remember that Jesus was Jewish....he was not a Christian.

Christ's death ended the Law (Romans 10:4) and introduced a new covenant with different rules to the old one. Jeremiah prophesied about it.....

“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”

33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31-33)

Deuteronomy 5:15....
"Remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and that Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."

That the Sabbath was not enjoined upon any of God’s servants until after the Exodus is evident from the testimony of Deuteronomy 5:2, 3 and Exodus 31:16, 17: “It was not with our forefathers that Jehovah concluded this covenant, but with us.” “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath . . . during their generations. . . . Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” If Israel had already been observing the Sabbath, it could not have served as a reminder of their deliverance from Egypt.

So unless you are Jewish and consider the old covenant to still be in force, there is no command to keep Sabbath for Christ's disciples.

When issues arose over the Jewish Christians wanting the Gentile brothers to be circumcised, it was creating dissension in the congregations, so it was taken to the elders in Jerusalem to give a final verdict. After much discussion of the scriptures and prayerful consideration in holy spirit, this was the admonition given to all the congregations....

Acts 15:28-29...
"For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

What was missing from these "necessary things"...? Circumcision and Sabbath keeping. These were not requirements for Christians. Even Jewish Christians were no longer required to adhere to these Jewish Laws.....they could still observe them if they wished....but they were not to impose them on others or to judge them.

If we call the Sabbath Jewish we must call Marriage Jewish as well because they were both instituted in Eden.
Having the Law done away with in the sense of disregarding the Commandments because they are deemed Jewish is probably why the secular world cares less and less about marriage. 'Christians' set the precedent by their rumbustious claims of liberty from law.

I wonder whether God will have something to say about those claims?

 

[Aunty Jane]

If we call the Sabbath Jewish we must call Marriage Jewish as well because they were both instituted in Eden.

It is the scriptures that call the Sabbath “Jewish”.

Exodus 31:12-17....
12 Jehovah said further to Moses: 13 “Speak to the Israelites and tell them, ‘Especially, you are to keep my sabbaths, for it is a sign between me and you during your generations in order that you may know that I, Jehovah, am sanctifying you. 14 You must keep the Sabbath, for it is something holy to you. Whoever profanes it must be put to death. If anyone does any work on it, then that person must be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a sabbath of complete rest. It is something holy to Jehovah. Anyone doing work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. 16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath; they must observe the Sabbath during all their generations. It is a lasting covenant. 17 It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel, for in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and refreshed himself.’”

The Law covenant was made only with the nation of Israel. Who had knowledge of the things written in the Genesis creation account, because it was penned by Moses.....after the liberation from Egypt.

Having the Law done away with in the sense of disregarding the Commandments because they are deemed Jewish is probably why the secular world cares less and less about marriage. 'Christians' set the precedent by their rumbustious claims of liberty from law.

That makes no sense at all. Marriage has slowly gone out the window since the sexual revolution of the sixties. Why bother getting hitched when you can have what you want without it. No one wants to live by God’s rules anymore. They see them as restrictive and outdated. Commitment has all but disappeared as well. If it doesn’t work, you don’t fix it....you throw it away and get a new one.

Jesus said that the ‘law of love’ was now the only ones binding on Christians. Love of God and neighbor. This law was written on hearts as Jeremiah prophesied and was administered via a God-given conscience. The Jews had laws given by God, but then demanded along with every “i” dotted and every “t” crossed, several additional rules had to apply to every one of them. It made a mockery of the Law and created a nightmare for the Jewish people. The Ultra-Orthodox Jews today are saddled with so many laws and rules of law that it takes them hours just to get outside their front door. God never intended the Law to be a burden, but a constant reminder of their need for a savior. If they had to depend on keeping the law to be saved, they had no hope. No one could keep it perfectly.

I wonder whether God will have something to say about those claims?

God has already had his say....but who is listening?

 

[quietthinker]

The Law covenant was made only with the nation of Israel. Who had knowledge of the things written in the Genesis creation account, because it was penned by Moses.....after the liberation from Egypt.

By that measure we can nullify marriage as well.

God has already had his say....but who is listening?

God has yet to have his say, you can be assured of that....and who is listening? ...There are 7000 over the hill that have not bowed their knee to Baal.

 

[Aunty Jane]

By that measure we can nullify marriage as well.

What has the Sabbath law got to do with marriage?

God has yet to have his say, you can be assured of that....and who is listening? ...There are 7000 over the hill that have not bowed their knee to Baal.

That is just a bit too cryptic for me....sorry.

 

[quietthinker]

What has the Sabbath law got to do with marriage?

That is just a bit too cryptic for me....sorry.

1...Both were implemented in Eden, both were reinforced by Moses.
2...I thought you said you knew your bible?

 

[strobe]

What I post is my opinion only

FYI That is the only thing I disagree with in everything you've written here so far.

 

[Taken]

Saturday 12-25-21 Tevet 20, 5782 7th. day of the weekly cycle, 5th. Winter Day

I Posted this 6-11-19

Is there anyone that keeps The Sabbath Day Holy, from Sunset on the 6th.Day/Friday until The ending of The 7th. Day at Sunset, on Saturday by The Gregorian Calendar.

LOL, Walter and Debbie

No. I am not an Israelite or have ever observed their Sabbaths.
I Have a full-time Almighty Lord God, that I am with, and He with me always.

I’m pretty confidant OT teaching of setting aside A DAY reserved unto focusing on God, was introducing a Discipline of the importance To Keep one Focused On God in all things.
I believe after 4,000 years, men began to figure out, and Jesus gave a conclusion, to take care of your daily responsibilities AND pray without ceasing....pretty much concludes Every DAY IS holy unto the Lord and Every DAY is suitable to be focused On God in all things, including ones daily responsibilities, charity, a helping hand.

Scripture reveals there will be a time to come when Jews will be warned to Flee their homes, Flee their city, Flee their land....and Jesus gives an almost mocking warning for them to pray the day of their warning be not on the Sabbath....why? Will men who continue to believe they can not travel on the Sabbath, ignore the warning to Flee?

Matt 24:
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

1...Both were implemented in Eden, both were reinforced by Moses.
2...I thought you said you knew your bible?

LOL....I know my Bible....I just don’t understand you some of the time....

Moses wrote Genesis after the the exodus from Egypt. The Israelites as a nation were formed only when they had agreed to abide by the laws that God would give them. Moses went up into the mountain to receive the Ten Commandments only to be told by God to go down and see what they were doing.....he was so incensed to see them worshipping a golden calf, that he threw the tablets down and smashed them to pieces.

But I still don’t understand what marriage and the Sabbath have got to do with the price of fish....

 

[GEN2REV]

...and if you think it does....you are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace.

Do me a solid and just pop into this thread real quick and let them know that this is possible.

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.