Sabbath Issues

[GEN2REV]

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath.
You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because their beliefs are not compatible.
Christ warned about this.
I know there are those that try to mix Judaism and Christian and Old and New Testaments....Old and New Covenants. Bad stuff. There is no suggestion in the Bible that trying to be in both covenants is a good thing or even a possibility.

This is another fallacy of the modern mainstream church.

You don't have to be Jewish or Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) to believe in and observe the Sabbath.

I am neither.

When I was called by the Lord, I made the decision within myself that I was going to know everything there is to know about being a Christian if I was going to profess to be one. So I decided I needed to know the Bible cover to cover in order to make such a claim. I wanted to read, and study, it for myself with no man translating it or telling me what they believed it says/means. In the 3 years it took me to study it the first time, cover to cover, I found that most of the doctrines the modern church pushes so hard on its adherents are absolutely BOGUS. Not the least of which is that the Sabbath Commandment is insignificant today for modern Christians.

The 10 Commandments are now, and always have been, still intact - and the 4th Commandment - Seventh Day Sabbath Commandment - might very legitimately be the most important to God.

Before you start with the whole "The 10 Commandments are irrelevant now since Jesus died on the cross ... blah blah blah", NONSENSE.

We all are still capable of sinning. The Biblical definition of 'sin' is the breaking of the Commandments of God - the breaking of the Law. Jesus did away with no such thing.

The Sabbath Commandment is still 100% relevant and fully intact and the vast majority of 'professed' Christians want nothing to do with it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do me a solid and just pop into this thread real quick and let them know that this is possible.

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

I do not need to address the salvation thing....gift....eternal..... much. That has already been hit so hard. OSAS....Calvinism.....
Go to heaven no matter how much you sin or how evil you are.......it is all over the Forum.

But I will give you a piece of advise.....if you are at that heavenly banquet and the guy next to you starts pouring ketchup on your arm.....run!!! He is a cannibal! Heaven full of evil is the brain child of Satan.

As far as how that would be possible?...that is severed from Christ. In relation to messing with Old Testament....making it a religion...mixing Old Testament and New Testament beliefss.....that there is some benefit to sighting Old Testament laws in regard to salvation or merit. I was just referring to Paul.

Galatians 5:2-6
Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

 

[Grailhunter]

You don't have to be Jewish or Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) to believe in and observe the Sabbath.

Mixing religions just is something that will get you in trouble.

When I was called by the Lord, I made the decision within myself that I was going to know everything there is to know about being a Christian if I was going to profess to be one. So I decided I needed to know the Bible cover to cover in order to make such a claim. I wanted to read, and study, it for myself with no man translating it or telling me what they believed it says/means. In the 3 years it took me to study it the first time, cover to cover, I found that most of the doctrines the modern church pushes so hard on its adherents are absolutely BOGUS. Not the least of which is that the Sabbath Commandment is insignificant today for modern Christians.

Well you need to do a lot more studying. Being knowledgeable of Christianity is a lot more than reading the words....you have to understand what they mean and understand what is going on.....you have to understand the storyline and spirit of the scriptures....and then from there the study gets deep.

The 10 Commandments are now, and always have been, still intact - and the 4th Commandment - Seventh Day Sabbath Commandment - might very legitimately be the most important to God.

Odd are really good that you do not know what the Ten Commandments are. Not that it is your fault.

This is an innocent mistake....people want to believe they are loyal to God and the Bible by saying they believe the whole Bible....which is fine.....but the Mosaic Law has really nothing to do with Christians. The cruel spirit of the Old Testament is not Christian. We do not sell our daughters into sexual slavery or when we conquer a country, we do not kill all that breaths....all the non-virgins and don't forget the babies and keep the virgins for ourselves....in our polygamous marriage.....all of this is part of the Mosaic Law.

It is funny that most of the people that want to say they observe the Mosaic Law, so others will think they are holy, know very little about the 613 Mosaic Laws....If you are a person that does know the Mosaic Law ....it is humorous to listen to them talk about observing the Law. And if you knew the Mosaic Law you would know that even if you tried to observe them today, you would end up in prison or an insane asylum.

We all are still capable of sinning. The Biblical definition of 'sin' is the breaking of the Commandments of God - the breaking of the Law. Jesus did away with no such thing.

We all can sin and will sin.....but it is not about breaking an Old Testament Law.....we transgress against Christ and it is based on His commandments.....nothing to do with Old Testament commandments.

 

[GEN2REV]

Mixing religions just is something that will get you in trouble.



Well you need to do a lot more studying. Being knowledgeable of Christianity is a lot more than reading the words....you have to understand what they mean and understand what is going on.....you have to understand the storyline and spirit of the scriptures....and then from there the study gets deep.



Odd are really good that you do not know what the Ten Commandments are. Not that it is your fault.

This is an innocent mistake....people want to believe they are loyal to God and the Bible by saying they believe the whole Bible....which is fine.....but the Mosaic Law has really nothing to do with Christians. The cruel spirit of the Old Testament is not Christian. We do not sell our daughters into sexual slavery or when we conquer a country, we do not kill all that breaths....all the non-virgins and don't forget the babies and keep the virgins for ourselves....in our polygamous marriage.....all of this is part of the Mosaic Law.

It is funny that most of the people that want to say they observe the Mosaic Law, so others will think they are holy, know very little about the 613 Mosaic Laws....If you are a person that does know the Mosaic Law ....it is humorous to listen to them talk about observing the Law. And if you knew the Mosaic Law you would know that even if you tried to observe them today, you would end up in prison or an insane asylum.



We all can sin and will sin.....but it is not about breaking an Old Testament Law.....we transgress against Christ and it is based on His commandments.....nothing to do with Old Testament commandments.

Every single thing you say in this post is as typical modern christian as it could be. I'm not convinced you even believe you know the Bible as well as you claim to.

You separate OT and NT as if they're two completely disconnected books. Clearly you don't know, or accept, that Jesus is God. That's gonna be a problem for you. And the 10 Commandments are NOT the Mosaic Laws.

That's about as much effort as I'm willing to put into that mess of a post you just delivered there. MY advice? Maybe don't tell anybody else they need to study the Bible until you've read it cover to cover for yourself and prayed for God's guidance through it.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[Grailhunter]

You separate OT and NT as if they're two completely disconnected books. Clearly you don't know, or accept, that Jesus is God. That's gonna be a problem for you. And the 10 Commandments are NOT the Mosaic Laws.

LOL Johnny Appleseed of truth. No harm, no foul if you do not like the truth.
And by the way it is clear you do not know what the Ten Commandments are and if you did you would know they are part of the Mosaic Law. It is amazing how little people know about the Bible.
And as far as effort...I agree....lets stop before I have to start charging you to take you to school.

 

[Brakelite]

This is another fallacy of the modern mainstream church.

You don't have to be Jewish or Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) to believe in and observe the Sabbath.

I am neither.

When I was called by the Lord, I made the decision within myself that I was going to know everything there is to know about being a Christian if I was going to profess to be one. So I decided I needed to know the Bible cover to cover in order to make such a claim. I wanted to read, and study, it for myself with no man translating it or telling me what they believed it says/means. In the 3 years it took me to study it the first time, cover to cover, I found that most of the doctrines the modern church pushes so hard on its adherents are absolutely BOGUS. Not the least of which is that the Sabbath Commandment is insignificant today for modern Christians.

The 10 Commandments are now, and always have been, still intact - and the 4th Commandment - Seventh Day Sabbath Commandment - might very legitimately be the most important to God.

Before you start with the whole "The 10 Commandments are irrelevant now since Jesus died on the cross ... blah blah blah", NONSENSE.

We all are still capable of sinning. The Biblical definition of 'sin' is the breaking of the Commandments of God - the breaking of the Law. Jesus did away with no such thing.

The Sabbath Commandment is still 100% relevant and fully intact and the vast majority of 'professed' Christians want nothing to do with it.

I believe that many are terrified of actually obeying a commandment for fear of being labeled as one who is attempting to earn their salvation by obedience to the law. Yet nothing could be further from the truth. How can any unsaved person, one not having the Spirit of God guiding, leading, sanctifying and imparting to him the righteousness of Christ, even desire to obey God's Commandments, let alone actually do so?
It is true that no-one is justified by obeying God's Commandments. Even dead people keep the Sabbath by not working on that day. And dead people don't lie, steal, curse, or covet someone's wife or car either. But life isn't about not doing stuff. Not stealing. Not lusting. Not lying. Not coveting. Not worshiping idols. Not working on the 7th day. That's observing the law. One could also add not listening to the wrong music. Not smoking. Not swearing. Etc etc etc.
But righteousness is about doing. Doing good for others. Actively loving and sacrificing self that others may benefit in some way by your doing for them what they cannot do for themselves. And by honoring others as being more worthy than yourself. And honoring God above all. And observing His Sabbath, keeping His day holy, spending time with Him and serving others in the community, worshiping Him only and glorifying Him as the source and Creator of all things, on the very day He sanctified and made holy for that very purpose, that we may rest in Him and with Him and with others to enjoy and bless one another in His presence... Who would, or could do that if not by the Spirit of the God Who first made that day for man?

 

[Brakelite]

But I still don’t understand what marriage and the Sabbath have got to do with the price of fish....

Because maybe you aren't listening? As QT said, marriage was instituted in Eden as a holy relationship between a man and a woman.
The Sabbath was instituted the day after as a holy relationship between man and God.
Both before the fall.

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe that many are terrified of actually obeying a commandment for fear of being labeled as one who is attempting to earn their salvation by obedience to the law. Yet nothing could be further from the truth. How can any unsaved person, one not having the Spirit of God guiding, leading, sanctifying and imparting to him the righteousness of Christ, even desire to obey God's Commandments, let alone actually do so?
It is true that no-one is justified by obeying God's Commandments. Even dead people keep the Sabbath by not working on that day. And dead people don't lie, steal, curse, or covet someone's wife or car either. But life isn't about not doing stuff. Not stealing. Not lusting. Not lying. Not coveting. Not worshiping idols. Not working on the 7th day. That's observing the law. One could also add not listening to the wrong music. Not smoking. Not swearing. Etc etc etc.
But righteousness is about doing. Doing good for others. Actively loving and sacrificing self that others may benefit in some way by your doing for them what they cannot do for themselves. And by honoring others as being more worthy than yourself. And honoring God above all. And observing His Sabbath, keeping His day holy, spending time with Him and serving others in the community, worshiping Him only and glorifying Him as the source and Creator of all things, on the very day He sanctified and made holy for that very purpose, that we may rest in Him and with Him and with others to enjoy and bless one another in His presence... Who would, or could do that if not by the Spirit of the God Who first made that day for man?

Your heart is in the right place. But brain on! What Commandments?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Sabbath features in all four Gospels
only right at the beginning of Jesus' three and halve years ministry, only to re-appear
right at the very Climax of his ministry. The Sabbath in between, features only once as prophetic warning in all of Jesus' teaching ministry in Matthew 24 for
our end-time Christian experience.

I believe these three indisputable facts are most significant, meaningful and Holy-Spirit-Inspired-Word-of-God.
For a flawless account of that Climax of the Gospel, READ THE GOSPEL IN THE GOSPELS,
'Climax of the Gospel', http://www.biblestudents.co.za/book...aaste Lyding en Triomf van Jesus Christus.pdf

 

[strobe]

The Sabbath features in all four Gospels
only right at the beginning of Jesus' three and halve years ministry, only to re-appear
right at the very Climax of his ministry. The Sabbath in between, features only once as prophetic warning in all of Jesus' teaching ministry in Matthew 24 for
our end-time Christian experience.

I believe these three indisputable facts are most significant, meaningful and Holy-Spirit-Inspired-Word-of-God.
For a flawless account of that Climax of the Gospel, READ THE GOSPEL IN THE GOSPELS,
'Climax of the Gospel', http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Die Hart van die Evangelie - Die Laaste Lyding en Triomf van Jesus Christus.pdf

That link is all in Gibberish and I only speak Balderdash and Gobbledygook

 

[Aunty Jane]

Because maybe you aren't listening? As QT said, marriage was instituted in Eden as a holy relationship between a man and a woman.

Yes it was.....God performed the first marriage and Jesus taught about marriage and so did the apostles.
Nowhere was it said that marriage was only for Jews, but it did say that the Sabbath was.
Marriage is almost a universal union no matter what country you live in, or what religion you belong to.
That cannot be said for the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was instituted the day after as a holy relationship between man and God.
Both before the fall.

I still do not understand what the Sabbath has to do with marriage.....for Christians.
The Sabbath was not incumbent on Christians but the marriage arrangement was always important to God.
Circumcision was incumbent on Jewish males but the Israelites were not the only ones who practiced it.
Neither circumcision nor Sabbath observance was mandated for Christians.

There is no command, "thou shalt marry" in God's Law....and if you don't the death penalty will apply.....way different to the Sabbath.

Can you tell me why Jesus is called "Lord of the sabbath"? (Matthew 12:8)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath.
You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because their beliefs are not compatible.

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath. If you are a Christian - Jew or Gentile - you will believe the Sabbath, for Jesus Son of Man God the Son is Lord of the Sabbath.

You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because Jews as Jews don't find the Son of God compatible with their religion, while Christians as believers of Jesus' Resurrection "of the Sabbath--on the Sabbath", find "the Sabbath OF THE LORD THY GOD," totally compatible with Scripture-Truth in and of both the Old and New Testaments.

 

[Grailhunter]

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath. If you are a Christian - Jew or Gentile - you will believe the Sabbath, for Jesus Son of Man God the Son is Lord of the Sabbath.

You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because Jews as Jews don't find the Son of God compatible with their religion, while Christians as believers of Jesus' Resurrection "of the Sabbath--on the Sabbath", find "the Sabbath OF THE LORD THY GOD," totally compatible with Scripture-Truth in and of both the Old and New Testaments.

I do not talk in circles.
It is better to be a straight shooter.
The Sabbath....worshiping God on the Saturday is a Jewish holy day not a Christian holy day.
As a Christian we recognize that the Sabbath was an Old Testament thing and a commandment for Israel and the Jews.
Not so for Christians.
Our holy day is the day that Christ resurrected....Sunday.

To cut to the chase....There is nothing lacking in Christ's teachings....nothing lacking in the teachings of the Apostles....that a Christian would need to look back in the Old Testament teachings or Mosaic Laws for religious guidance or morals. In all ways the teachings and commandments of Christ are vastly superior to anything in the Old Testament....that is morals or spirit or character.
Absolutely nothing! All a Christian needs is in the New Covenant.

 

[strobe]

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath. If you are a Christian - Jew or Gentile - you will believe the Sabbath, for Jesus Son of Man God the Son is Lord of the Sabbath.

You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because Jews as Jews don't find the Son of God compatible with their religion, while Christians as believers of Jesus' Resurrection "of the Sabbath--on the Sabbath", find "the Sabbath OF THE LORD THY GOD," totally compatible with Scripture-Truth in and of both the Old and New Testaments.

I feel sure we're mostly in agreement but presumably Paul wasn't talking about the New Testament when he wrote this: 2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[Brakelite]

Nowhere was it said that marriage was only for Jews, but it did say that the Sabbath was.

Marriage is almost a universal union no matter what country you live in, or what religion you belong to.
That cannot be said for the Sabbath.

Very few realize that the word "Sabbath" and the concept of resting from work on the seventh day of the week (Saturday) is common to most of the ancient and modern languages of the world. This is evidence totally independent of the Scriptures that confirms the Biblical teaching that God's seventh day Sabbath predates Judaism. The concept of a Saturday holy day of rest was understood, accepted, and practiced by virtually every culture from Babylon through modern times. In the study of the many languages of mankind you will find two important facts: 1.In the majority of the principal languages the last, or seventh, day of the week is designated as "Sabbath." 2.There is not even one language which designates another day as the "day of rest." From these facts we may conclude that not only those people who called the last day of the week "Sabbath," but all other peoples and races, as far as they recognized any day of the week as "Sabbath," rested on the seventh day. In fact, it was recorded by the great historian, Sozomen, that in his time the whole known world, with the exception of Rome and Alexandria, observed the seventh day of the week. "The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria." Socrates, "Ecclesiastical History," Book 7, chap.19. Another interesting fact is that the words in the original languages that are used to designate the seventh day of the week as the "Sabbath" have continued to be very similar while the other words have been so changed over time that they are unintelligible to people of other language groups. This is another proof that the Sabbath and the words used to designate the seventh day of the week as the "Sabbath day" originated at Creation in complete harmony with the Biblical record found in Genesis 2:1-3.
You can prove this for yourself. Go to an ancient language and discover for yourself the name and meaning of the seventh day of the week.

 

[strobe]

I do not talk in circles.
It is better to be a straight shooter.
The Sabbath....worshiping God on the Saturday is a Jewish holy day not a Christian holy day.
As a Christian we recognize that the Sabbath was an Old Testament thing and a commandment for Israel and the Jews.
Not so for Christians.
Our holy day is the day that Christ resurrected....Sunday.

To cut to the chase....There is nothing lacking in Christ's teachings....nothing lacking in the teachings of the Apostles....that a Christian would need to look back in the Old Testament teachings or Mosaic Laws for religious guidance or morals. In all ways the teachings and commandments of Christ are vastly superior to anything in the Old Testament....that is morals or spirit or character.
Absolutely nothing! All a Christian needs is in the New Covenant.

Also Romans 14:5 might seem to contradict your other point so, in fact, I have misgivings about this post and my previous reply.

 

[Brakelite]

As a Christian we recognize that the Sabbath was an Old Testament thing and a commandment for Israel and the Jews

Please explain information in above post #135

 

[Grailhunter]

Also Romans 14:5 might seem to contradict your other point so, in fact, I have misgivings about this post and my previous reply.

Don't see a contradiction there at all.
Ever heard of muddying the water.
If you have a scripture that says Christians should obey the 613 Mosaic Laws...that would be something.
But the storyline of the New Testament proves my point...
The Jews dogged Paul's ministry trying to get Christians to obey the Laws and customs of the Jews.
That ended at the first Christian council in Jerusalem.
Christ even warned against trying to mix Judaism with Christianity.....the whole new wine in old wine skins thing.
Understanding the Bible would mean you understand mixing these two religions would be a bad thing.
The morals....the spirit...the character of the Old Testament beliefs are substandard compared to the same in the New Covenant.
A dog turns on it vomit....a pig wallers in the mud....that is what a Christian does when he turns to the ways of the Old Testament. No reason for that. What would it take for a Christian father to sell his daughters as a sex slaves.....despicable laws, customs, and culture.

 

[strobe]

Don't see a contradiction there at all.
Ever heard of muddying the water.
If you have a scripture that says Christians should obey the 613 Mosaic Laws...that would be something.
But the storyline of the New Testament proves my point...
The Jews dogged Paul's ministry trying to get Christians to obey the Laws and customs of the Jews.
That ended at the first Christian council in Jerusalem.
Christ even warned against trying to mix Judaism with Christianity.....the whole new wine in old wine skins thing.
Understanding the Bible would mean you understand mixing these two religions would be a bad thing.
The morals....the spirit...the character of the Old Testament beliefs are substandard compared to the same in the New Covenant.
A dog turns on it vomit....a pig wallers in the mud....that is what a Christian does when he turns to the ways of the Old Testament. No reason for that. What would it take for a Christian father to sell his daughters as a sex slaves.....despicable laws, customs, and culture.

So just to be clear then, you're saying the Old Testament was NOT from God ?

 

[Grailhunter]

So just to be clear then, you're saying the Old Testament was NOT from God ?

Did you see those words in my post? No. The Old Testament was what it was.
Do you desire to sell your daughter as a sex slave? Would you recommend other Christians to sell their daughters as sex slave?
Do you think if we go to war we should kill all that breaths including the babies and keep the virgins for ourselves and kill all the non virgins....shoot the bellies of pregnant women? And have the captive virgins to rape for the rest of their lives? We could include them in our Polygamous marriages. These are all Mosaic Laws.

There is no good reason to look back at the morals, customs, or character of the Old Testament. Look to Christ...learn from Christ and the Apostles.