The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Ernest T. Bass]

God says it was given to all men and that it should be kept clear into the end times.
Paul was a "keeper of the Law."
Acts 21:24

Deuteronomy 5:2-3; Malachi 4:4; shows the law was only given to the Jews and no one else, again the Gentiles was excluded from the OT law Ephesians 2:12.

 

[GEN2REV]

Deuteronomy 5:2-3 the 10 commands was given only to the Jews, not the Gentiles Ephesians 2:12 who were excluded from the covenants of promise.

The 10 Commandments were given to Israel. Israel are God's Children.
"... Thus saith the Lord, Israel is My son, even my first-born:..."
Exodus 4:22

Israel are a spiritual race. How do we know?
"God is a spirit, He must be worshiped in spirit and truth."
John 4:24
"They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:..."
Romans 9:8

How long did God intend for His Children to keep His Commandments? All the way to the final days of the world.
"... even in the latter days (end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, ... He will not forsake thee, ... nor forget the covenant (Commandments) of thy fathers..."
Deuteronomy 4:29-30

Jesus would not spend His short earthly ministry teaching a law that was to be abolished when He was bringing in a new covenant to replace the old one,

Yes, why would He do that? A very good question.

So John 15:10 would be NT commandments men are to keep...."If ye keep my commandments" not 'if ye keep Moses' commandments'.

The 10 Commandments are not Moses' Commandments. As I did make clear in the OP.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Thank you for the John 15:10 verse, Ocean. Didn't have that one handy in my arsenal.

God bless.

Now you do. God bless you too.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Which ones don't need to be kept anymore?

The ones we don't need to literally keep to the letter of the law anymore are the one's that Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice and the giving of the Holy Spirit fulfilled one time for all time and made obsolete and no longer needed - laws concerning sacrifice for sin, guilt, and fellowship and the observances in which they were offered up. Laws regarding circumcision, cleanliness, separation, exclusion, abstinence, blood, foods, tithes, firstborn.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes, how/why would Jesus teach words of life (John 6:68) if He was limited to teaching the ministration of death that was the OT law (2 Corinthians 3:7).

The parameters that you're claiming Jesus was restricted to are man-made parameters.

Jesus wasn't restricted to any "ministration of death."

He taught what He pleased and it pleased Him to live out the 10 Commandments for all to see.

On the contrary, God tells us in Deuteronomy that the 10 Commandments are the path to life when Moses declared to Israel that when you "do them, ... ye may live...".
Deuteronomy 4:1

 

[GEN2REV]

The ones we don't need to literally keep to the letter of the law anymore are the one's that Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice and the giving of the Holy Spirit fulfilled one time for all time and made obsolete and no longer needed - laws concerning sacrifice for sin, guilt, and fellowship and the observances in which they were offered up. Laws regarding circumcision, cleanliness, separation, exclusion, abstinence, blood, foods, tithes, firstborn.

Come on, Ferris. You've been around a long time and you're not new to this game.

You know that the 10 Commandments are not the 613 Mosaic/Ceremonial Laws. We're not discussing those right now, we're discussing the 10 Commandments.

If you believe the 4th Commandment was done away with by Christ, post some verses that clearly make that claim.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You know that the 10 Commandments are not the 613 Mosaic/Ceremonial Laws.

I don't know if the Ten are included in the 613 or not. I just know people say there are 613 laws. What I do know is the law is a single entity, not two. All the laws God spoke on Mt. Sinai, not just the Ten, are the covenant God made between Himself and Moses and the Israelites. And it is that covenant that was replaced by the New Covenant, but which upholds the laws of the first covenant, whether literally or in regard to the spiritual reality they represent.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you believe the 4th Commandment was done away with by Christ, post some verses that clearly make that claim.

"...a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
​

Think what you want about what actually constitutes the reality (Isaiah 58 helps), but what is clear and not in dispute in the passage is the fact that sabbath days are a shadow, not the reality itself, just as the other things - religious festivals, new moon celebrations - are shadows and not the reality. How we regard the other shadows is how we are to regard the shadow that is the sabbath.

 

[Oceanprayers]

The ones we don't need to literally keep to the letter of the law anymore are the one's that Christ's Ministry and Sacrifice and the giving of the Holy Spirit fulfilled one time for all time and made obsolete and no longer needed - laws concerning sacrifice for sin, guilt, and fellowship and the observances in which they were offered up. Laws regarding circumcision, cleanliness, separation, exclusion, abstinence, blood, foods, tithes, firstborn.

Maybe the simpler question would be which laws do you believe we're to keep now?

 

[Oceanprayers]

"...a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
​

Think what you want about what actually constitutes the reality (Isaiah 58 helps), but what is clear and not in dispute in the passage is the fact that sabbath days are a shadow, not the reality itself. , just as the other things - religious festivals, new moon celebrations - are shadows and not the reality. How we regard the other shadows is how we are to regard the shadow that is the sabbath.

You intentionally omitted a vital part of Colossians 2.
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Colossians 2 MOUNCE;NIV - For I want you to know how great a - Bible Gateway

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you believe the 4th Commandment was done away with by Christ, post some verses that clearly make that claim.

"...a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
Think what you want about what actually constitutes the reality (Isaiah 58 helps), but what is clear and not in dispute in the passage is the fact that sabbath days are a shadow, not the reality itself, just as the other things - religious festivals, new moon celebrations - are shadows and not the reality. How we regard the other shadows is how we are to regard the shadow that is the sabbath.

GEN2REV, if you could, post for me your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-23. It's an excellent passage with a great deal of bearing on the question at hand. I'll post some preceding verses as well, so more of the surrounding context is readily available.

God bless,
- H

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped away the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the midst, having nailed it to the cross. 15 And having stripped the rulers and authorities, He made a spectacle of them publicly, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of Christ. 18 Let no one rob you of your reward, delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, investigating into those things he has seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the elementary principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in will-driven worship, self-abasement, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[GEN2REV]

All the laws God spoke on Mt. Sinai, not just the Ten, are the covenant God made between Himself and Moses and the Israelites.

The only laws spoken by God on Mt. Sinai were the 10 Commandments found in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21.

Those laws weren't done away with by Christ in any way. He lived them on full display as an example for all those who would take His Title, calling themselves by His Name, and living as He lived ... Christians.

1 John 2:6

 

[GEN2REV]

"...a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." Colossians 2:16-17
​

Think what you want about what actually constitutes the reality (Isaiah 58 helps), but what is clear and not in dispute in the passage is the fact that sabbath days are a shadow, not the reality itself. , just as the other things - religious festivals, new moon celebrations - are shadows and not the reality. How we regard the other shadows is how we are to regard the shadow that is the sabbath.

That verse is referring to the Mosaic/Ceremonial Ordinances that it refers to just 2 verses prior.

Verse 14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross."
Colossians 2:14

It's referencing the Mosaic/Ceremonial Laws, not the 10 Commandments Law of God.

Nothing in the Bible erases those. They are a 'written-in-Stone' foundation for what it means to be a Christian and follow God's Ways. They are the way to life. Written in Stone (Christ)? The Rock? Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Nothing changes any of that and it all goes hand-in-hand. It's an unbreakable Truth. Just as Jesus, The Rock, is The Unbreakable Truth.

 

[Cassandra]

and how about this one in Revelation?
Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." They keep WHAT?

And @Ferris Bueller , you know darn good and well that the 10 commandments were separate because they were written with the finger of God, and the others were written down by Moses. You keep saying the same old thing.
Do you believe God would put a ceremonial law into the 10 Commandments? Why were all the other ceremonial laws written down by Moses, and yet the Sabbath one (which you evidently think was ceremonial) written with the finger of God?

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN2REV, if you could, post for me your interpretation of Colossians 2:16-23. It's an excellent passage with a great deal of bearing on the question at hand. I'll post some preceding verses as well, so more of the surrounding context is readily available.

God bless,
- H

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped away the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the midst, having nailed it to the cross. 15 And having stripped the rulers and authorities, He made a spectacle of them publicly, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of Christ. 18 Let no one rob you of your reward, delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, investigating into those things he has seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the elementary principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in will-driven worship, self-abasement, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

I think I covered it in post #73, HIH.

Let me know if it needs further discussion.

That's my take.

 

[Hidden In Him]

That verse is referring to the Mosaic/Ceremonial Ordinances that it refers to just 2 verses prior.

Verse 14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to the cross."
Colossians 2:14

It's referencing the Mosaic/Ceremonial Laws, not the 10 Commandments Law of God.

Ok. But now the Sabbath is referenced in both the 10 commandments and in Paul's discourse. It would seem he is including the Sabbaths in with the mosaic ceremonial law here, yes?

14 having wiped away the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us... 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

 

[GEN2REV]

Ok. But now the Sabbath is referenced in both the 10 commandments and in Paul's discourse. It would seem he is including the Sabbaths in with the mosaic ceremonial law here, yes?

14 having wiped away the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us... 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths

It's probably not a coincidence that somebody long ago decided to complicate matters by translating certain Ceremonial Celebrations/Rituals as sabbaths, but the fact is that THE Sabbath, the weekly Sabbath, is in a category all its own.

The 7th Day of each week Sabbath day has been set aside-sanctified- by God, blessed by the Almighty, and was dramatically singled out in Gen 2 as THE most special day there is.

Nothing is ever going to change that and Isaiah 66:23 tells us that we will still be keeping the Sabbath Day in heaven.

With absolute facts like that in the Bible, no convoluted, unclear verses anywhere can ever be used as convincing evidence that God has any desire to do away with that day, or any of His Commandments for that matter.

I'd prefer to keep this thread about the 10 Commandments as a whole, not another Sabbath thread. It's implied in the OP topic. All the 10 Commandments are Forever.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It's probably not a coincidence that somebody long ago decided to complicate matters by translating certain Ceremonial Celebrations/Rituals as sabbaths, but the fact is that THE Sabbath, the weekly Sabbath, is in a category all its own.

The 7th Day of each week Sabbath day has been set aside-sanctified- by God, blessed by the Almighty, and was dramatically singled out in Gen 2 as THE most special day there is.

Yeah, I was assuming you likely held to the argument that the sabbaths referred to by Paul were the additional sabbaths added to the Jewish calendar that were not specified in the 10 commandments. I was just making sure.

Nothing is ever going to change that and Isaiah 66:23 tells us that we will still be keeping the Sabbath Day in heaven.

The earth will return to it, yes. But it can be reading things into it and somewhat nullifying the teachings of Paul if what he was saying in context is not examined very closely.

You may not be disposed to this if your mind is already made up, but let me ask you another question then: Who do you believe the letter of Colossians was written about; i.e. who were the heretics Paul was suggesting were leading them astray? Again, this may be more involved than what you were aiming for in posting this thread, and if so I understand. But the correct answer has EVERYTHING to do with the question at hand.

If you'd rather put off going into a full explanation on who you think the heretics are, based on internal context, I fully understand. Sometimes I have to decline on people as well, if anything just because of time constraints. But if you want to pursue it, let me know. I'm gonna try and get some sleep.

God bless! And have a good night.
- H

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you,

You quoted: now therefore heathen, O Israel, unto the statues and unto the judgements, which I teach you
But as touching brotherly love you need not that I write unto you: for you yourselves are taught of God …consider what statues and unto what judgments?… to love one another. 1 Thessalonians 4:9

When thou art in tribulation , and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days(end times), if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto His voice;

And shall be obedient unto His voice? What does His voice say?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Maybe the simpler question would be which laws do you believe we're to keep now?

The ones that we have to literally keep are the ones that address how we are to treat each other. Don't have differing weights. Don't show favoritism. Laws of property and restitution, etc.