All eschatological views are correct?

[Bob Estey]

Aw, go ahead bob, wreck my thread.
Yes, there’s a target, but it’s a moving target as my friend says. To whom more is given, more is expected.
The target is to do what is right in Gods eyes.
There is the righteousness men are capable of (though they sometimes hit and sometimes miss.) Men sometimes do what is right and sometimes don’t. Then there is the righteousness of Christ, another story.

But honesty goes such a long way with God. Look at the two sinners praying. They were exactly the same, both sinners. So why did only one of the sinners walk away having done what was right in Gods sight? One of them hit the target.

I thought we had already resolved the issue of your thread.

Aren't there only so many sins we need to repent of? What happens when we complete the task?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I thought we had already resolved the issue of your thread.

Aren't there only so many sins we need to repent of? What happens when we complete the task?

Hah! It won’t be resolved until I can rightly divide it all!

I can’t be much help about repentance, I don’t view it as others do. The repenting I did was right when I suddenly saw God existed and everything I had just read in John was true, and I was greatly distressed I had ignored Him my whole life. I was a mess. All I could keep crying was I’m so sorry I didn’t know I’m so sorry!
And even since then, the repenting I’ve done was for turning away from trusting Him and back to trusting or relying on something or someone else. I see repenting as turning back to trust. I don’t see it as being distressed at what I am. If that’s to change, only He can do it. I don’t see what good could come from a leopard trying to remove his spots. He would just wear himself out and the spots would still be there.

 

[Enoch111]

Aren't there only so many sins we need to repent of? What happens when we complete the task?

This has nothing to do with eschatology. So Bob why don't you give us your take on future events?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Interesting thought. (Maybe only to me, lol.)
I wonder if this verse has anything to do with why people like to say bad things come in threes.
19 In that day you will be like a man who runs from a lion—
only to meet a bear.
Escaping from the bear, he leans his hand against a wall in his house—
and he’s bitten by a snake.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This has nothing to do with eschatology. So Bob which don't you give us your take on future events?

Talk about whatever you like in any of my threads bob. The Spirit will take us wherever He takes us!

 

[Bob Estey]

Hah! It won’t be resolved until I can rightly divide it all!

I can’t be much help about repentance, I don’t view it as others do. The repenting I did was right when I suddenly saw God existed and everything I had just read in John was true, and I was greatly distressed I had ignored Him my whole life. I was a mess. All I could keep crying was I’m so sorry I didn’t know I’m so sorry!
And even since then, the repenting I’ve done was for turning away from trusting Him and back to trusting or relying on something or someone else. I see repenting as turning back to trust. I don’t see it as being distressed at what I am. If that’s to change, only He can do it. I don’t see what good could come from a leopard trying to remove his spots. He would just wear himself out and the spots would still be there.

I just looked up the word "eschatological" again to make sure I knew what your thread was about: "Relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind."

As for death, I imagine we are going to die - it's been going on since the beginning of time. As for judgment, it seems to me we are always under judgment, though life can get very nasty very suddenly, such as if you rob a bank and get caught. As for the final destiny of the soul and of humankind, I think peace of mind is the big prize, and it comes to us when we repent (Matthew 4:17).

Now you can turn on the TV and relax.

 

[Bob Estey]

This has nothing to do with eschatology. So Bob why don't you give us your take on future events?

Life will go on as it does. People will come and go. We will hopefully learn what we need to learn. If we do, we have peace of mind (Matthew 4:17).

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Hmm…something there doesn’t sit right with me. I don’t mean about the harvests. That could fit, since we know there was already a collection with “and they saw many of their dead walking around.”
My problem is with the thought of no crushing, because it’s not my experience at all. AND it doesn’t fit with scripture either, (picking up your cross.)
44 Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.”

We already have the Holy Spirit, we came by faith. Why would you need to crush those that are already in Christ? That doesn't mean we do not have troubles on this earth, al time is troubles on this evil earth, that is why those who came out of the Great Tribulation in Rev. 7:9-17 did not come out of the 70th week, they are not judged until Rev. 20:4, they are told at the 5th Seal they MUST WAIT until the Beasts reign is over, so those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came out of the Great Church Age Tribulation. You are conflating the Harvest with the overall process.

When it come time to Harvest does the Church need to be crushed in order to be sifted? No, we are ready. Do the Jews need to be crushed in order to be sifted? Yes, Wheat has hard little pebbles in it and can not be sifted until it is first crushed. These are facts and Jesus used the Three Harvests to show us who will be ready at the Harvest and will not be ready. We must also be separated, but that only takes a winnowing, where you separate the chaff.

Thus, mature barley goes through a time of separation or winnowing. Using a wooden fork or “fan,” winnowers throw the gathered barley against the wind so that the wind can separate the chaff (husk) from the grain. On the other hand, mature wheat goes through a time of separation or crushing/threshing. Using a tribulum, a wooden board with holes in it, or using a wooden sled, both of which oxen often pull, threshers stand or sit on the board or sled as it is drawn over the grain that is laying on the threshing floor, causing the grain to be separated from the husk (chaff) and straw.

Because barley and wheat still will have certain amounts of chaff, little stones, and/or some tares mixed in them, these grains must go through an additional time of separation or sifting (sieving). The sifters sit on the floor and shake the sieve, which contains the grain, until the chaff begins to appear on the top. Then the sifters blow away the chaff by using the power from their breath. Shifting, thus, is necessary before the grain can be ground into meal.

Lastly, the mature grapes also go through a time of separation or crushing (treading). Using a winepress, treaders crush the grapes until the grapes’ juice is separated from the grapes’ skins, which results in the pressed juice running into the vats.

Having said that, here, in a nutshell, are the three main spiritual Harvests of Souls:

 

[Ronald D Milam]

FIRST HARVEST — BARLEY HARVEST (@FIRST FRUITS FEAST)

See ~ Ephesians 5:27; ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:23, NCV; ~ 2 Peter 3:14, NCV

The Barley Harvest represents the overcomers. These are the saints whose hearts are tender—the repentant on-fire believers, whose body, soul and spirit are without spot or blemish; completely sanctified unleavened lives driven by the Wind of the Holy Spirit. Like Christ Jesus, they too are Firstfruits; they are the Bride of Christ; they are the redeemed, resurrected, never-to-die again, glorified sons and daughters of God, and they are the FIRST PHASE of the spiritual Harvest of Souls who participate in the 1st resurrection. Furthermore, some of them will be the resurrected dead in Christ AND some will be the raptured alive in Christ (see 1 Corinthians 15:51- 54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

More important, these overcomers have been winnowed, which means they did not need to be harvested by using a “TRIBULUM” (Latin word from which comes the English word, Tribulation). In other words, the Barley Harvest of Souls will NOT have to go through the seven-year TRIBULATION, of which the last 3½ years are going to be the time of great distress and great pressure that this world has never seen before, and will never see again.

SECOND HARVEST — WHEAT HARVEST (@FEAST OF PENTECOST)

See ~ Matthew 3:11-12; ~ Matthew 13:38-39; ~ Revelation 14:14-16, NCV

The Wheat Harvest represents all the rest of the believers—the left behind hardhearted and/or carnal believers who were not ready when the Bride of Christ was raptured. These believers must endure the seven-year Tribulation, and for them the Great Tribulation (the last 3½ years) is a judgment that can be compared to the most severe action of Wheat threshing that is done in order to make the Wheat easier to separate (easier to winnow) away from the chaff. The Wheat Harvest, thus, represents those believers who are asleep, in the spiritual sense (see Matthew 13:25). Furthermore, the Firstfruits of this Wheat Harvest will be the martyred (beheaded) saints who are the SECOND PHASE of the spiritual Harvest of Souls who participate in the 1st resurrection, and the remaining mature Wheat will be those surviving Tribulation saints—the left-behind believers who have been thoroughly purged; see Revelation 7:13-14).
Also mixed in with this left-behind Harvest of Wheat are many left behind evangelized unbelievers (Jews and Gentiles) who, during the seven-year Tribulation, finally will accept Jesus the Christ as their personal Savior! Together with the surviving Tribulation’s left-behind believers, these Tribulation converts will be those Tribulation survivors biblically described as “…a great multitude, which no man could number…” (Revelation 7:9).

THIRD HARVEST — GRAPES HARVEST (@FEAST OF TABERNACLES)

See ~ Revelation 14:17-20; ~ Revelation 19:15

The Grapes Harvest represents the unbelievers who, for the most part, will be part of the massive crop of unbelievers who are in the 2nd resurrection—those centuries of unbelievers who will be judged according to their works (see Revelation 20:11-13). Moreover, many of these Grapes are Tribulation unbelievers who have heard the Gospel but made a choice to not make the Gospel a part of their lives—they chose not to accept Jesus the Christ as their Lord and personal Savior. These Grapes, thus, are the Tribulation’s unspiritual Harvest of Souls who have been thrown in the great winepress of God’s wrath, which thoroughly extracts juice (life) from “crushed” Grapes (see Revelation 14:19). Put differently, the Grapes and their seeds are UTTERLY and TOTALLY CRUSHED!

In contrast, the Firstfruits of the Grapes Harvest are the 144,000 last days’ redeemed unmarried translated/raptured Messianic Jews (see Revelation 14:3-4). These blameless, undefiled, and faithful followers of Jesus the Christ are the THIRD PHASE of the spiritual Harvest of Souls who participate in the 1st resurrection, because just like the alive Bride of Christ these 144,000 saints will be raptured (redeemed or resurrected; raised up) alive!

Are you breathing? Then a word to the wise should be sufficient!!!

 

[Keraz]

Life will go on as it does. People will come and go. We will hopefully learn what we need to learn. If we do, we have peace of mind (Matthew 4:17).

But Jesus said; As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when I come again.
The Bible is full of prophecy mostly unfulfilled. It is plain that the Lord will once again 'reset our civilization', we have been told all about it; excepting when!
But we can discern the season and by all indications that time is very close. Knowing about it and being mentally and physically prepared for this worldwide disaster, will be a great help to us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We already have the Holy Spirit, we came by faith. Why would you need to crush those that are already in Christ? That doesn't mean we do not have troubles on this earth, al time is troubles on this evil earth, that is why those who came out of the Great Tribulation in Rev. 7:9-17 did not come out of the 70th week, they are not judged until Rev. 20:4, they are told at the 5th Seal they MUST WAIT until the Beasts reign is over, so those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came out of the Great Church Age Tribulation. You are conflating the Harvest with the overall process.

When it come time to Harvest does the Church need to be crushed in order to be sifted? No, we are ready. Do the Jews need to be crushed in order to be sifted? Yes, Wheat has hard little pebbles in it and can not be sifted until it is first crushed. These are facts and Jesus used the Three Harvests to show us who will be ready at the Harvest and will not be ready. We must also be separated, but that only takes a winnowing, where you separate the chaff.

Thus, mature barley goes through a time of separation or winnowing. Using a wooden fork or “fan,” winnowers throw the gathered barley against the wind so that the wind can separate the chaff (husk) from the grain. On the other hand, mature wheat goes through a time of separation or crushing/threshing. Using a tribulum, a wooden board with holes in it, or using a wooden sled, both of which oxen often pull, threshers stand or sit on the board or sled as it is drawn over the grain that is laying on the threshing floor, causing the grain to be separated from the husk (chaff) and straw.

Because barley and wheat still will have certain amounts of chaff, little stones, and/or some tares mixed in them, these grains must go through an additional time of separation or sifting (sieving). The sifters sit on the floor and shake the sieve, which contains the grain, until the chaff begins to appear on the top. Then the sifters blow away the chaff by using the power from their breath. Shifting, thus, is necessary before the grain can be ground into meal.

Lastly, the mature grapes also go through a time of separation or crushing (treading). Using a winepress, treaders crush the grapes until the grapes’ juice is separated from the grapes’ skins, which results in the pressed juice running into the vats.

Having said that, here, in a nutshell, are the three main spiritual Harvests of Souls:

You aren’t preaching the gospel and the way there. I know you don’t know that but, boy oh boy, you really aren’t.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I just looked up the word "eschatological" again to make sure I knew what your thread was about: "Relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind."

As for death, I imagine we are going to die - it's been going on since the beginning of time. As for judgment, it seems to me we are always under judgment, though life can get very nasty very suddenly, such as if you rob a bank and get caught. As for the final destiny of the soul and of humankind, I think peace of mind is the big prize, and it comes to us when we repent (Matthew 4:17).

Now you can turn on the TV and relax.

I talked with a few different people over these years who followed by a strict sense of either no peace or extreme peace. It’s how they operated. If they lost their peace, they stopped and reassessed or decided against a certain course. Even down to temporal matters like…buying a house or not buying a house, they decided solely on if they were in peace about it or not in peace about it. It sounded so easy that I envied them and questioned them for more description but they were simple souls and they just couldn’t further expound other than peace versus lack of peace, and lack of peace made them change course. Very unlike my turbulence for so many of my first years!

 

[Bob Estey]

But Jesus said; As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when I come again.
The Bible is full of prophecy mostly unfulfilled. It is plain that the Lord will once again 'reset our civilization', we have been told all about it; excepting when!
But we can discern the season and by all indications that time is very close. Knowing about it and being mentally and physically prepared for this worldwide disaster, will be a great help to us.

I tend to think Bible prophecy is fulfilled in each of our lives.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I tend to think Bible prophecy is fulfilled in each of our lives.

I tend to agree with you! I think John was raptured in a sense, grabbed and taken somewhere to be able to write revelation. And Paul, when he said he didn’t know whether he was in the body or out of the body when taken to the second heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that God has allowed it to be this way.

Why?

That through all the different understandings, and beliefs of individual people, in the end will you love them?

The foundation is always the death, burial, and resurrection in faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, and love by the spirit that God has given to you.

In love,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Bob Estey]

I talked with a few different people over these years who followed by a strict sense of either no peace or extreme peace. It’s how they operated. If they lost their peace, they stopped and reassessed or decided against a certain course. Even down to temporal matters like…buying a house or not buying a house, they decided solely on if they were in peace about it or not in peace about it. It sounded so easy that I envied them and questioned them for more description but they were simple souls and they just couldn’t further expound other than peace versus lack of peace, and lack of peace made them change course. Very unlike my turbulence for so many of my first years!

I believe the Lord is teaching us how to be at peace. What good is heaven if we aren't at peace?

 

[ewq1938]

Midtrib can be backed up also. There IS a midtrib gathering. Of at least two men from what we can read.

That's not mid of the Great Tribulation. They go into heaven roughly an hour before the Great Tribulation ends at the 7th trump.

Also, while that is a rapture it is not "The Rapture" which is for those who are still alive when the Great Tribulation ends. They are the ones we speak of when we speak of the rapture.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe the Lord is teaching us how to be at peace. What good is heaven if we aren't at peace?

Yes. And how to remain in that peace despite any circumstance. I agree.

 

[ewq1938]

Barley does not need to be crushed.

Which is meaningless since nothing "needs" to be crushed but if you want flour of some type then crushing is needed.

 

[doxley]

The way I have always seen the 2nd coming is shown in Revelation 19 to 21

1. Jesus comes at end of the tribulation and collects his people, the body of Christ, his army/those he chooses. Satan is thrown into the pit and bound.

2. the millennium starts, those left on earth and those born from then on, or resurrected, are given a real (second) chance to learn about God in a fair way. No Satanic deception or confusion, no illness, hunger etc. The millennium is a time of peace and learning. Remember, today not everyone really has the chance to know God, and Jesus. What about those who are mentally ill. Those who are trapped in other religions and are given absolutely no chance of learning about any other. Those who are damaged from childhood and the list goes on.

Rev 20:5 has a question mark over it. It wasn’t always present in original manuscripts and some have put it in parenthesis. It is suspected that it may have been added by the first Catholics who wanted people to believe the millennium started when Christ was risen. In any case, I believe the second resurrection is the dead to be raised and given a proper chance at salvation. The first resurrection was for those who are with Christ and are ruling with him over mankind. The second death has no power over them because they have already passed judgment.

3. At the end of the millennium Satan is allowed out to deceive those who are willing, and thus the final sifting and judgment will be done then. Those who are not worthy are thrown into the lake of fire. Those that are worthy go with God into the new heavens and earth.