All eschatological views are correct?

[stunnedbygrace]

Here's your answer. Let's say you are an elementary school teacher and you have given a math test to your students. So here is what you get back after the test is completed:

Student A -- 2 + 2 =3
Student B -- 2 + 2 = 6
Student C -- 2 + 2 = 22
Student D -- 2 + 2 = 4
Now are you going to accept all the answers or only the correct answer?

Well…let’s alter that a little bit to fit better what I am saying.
Student A - 5+5=10
Student B - 6+4=10
Student C - 7+3=10
Student D - 8+2=10

which is correct?

 

[Bob Estey]

So…umm…you are wanting me to type my thoughts out all over again about how I think they might all be true? I didn’t post any huge walls of text, I promise. Lol.

I often do something that might help. If the title of a thread grabs me or perplexes me, I read about the first page, sometimes two pages. but I only read the posts of the person who began the thread. I don’t read any of the replies at first. If The thought or idea has not been fleshed out within that space, or if I lose interest, or if the person is mean and arrogant, I just exit the thread. Saves me a lot of time.

Another thing that saves time is I begin skipping over the posts of certain people who just waste time wanting to teach their particular indoctrination over and over again, ad nauseum. They aren’t there to learn and consider and share and discover. They’re just there for repetition of their particular indoctrination.

I think you have more patience than I. If someone can't get their idea across in a short paragraph, I usually won't read the post.

As for people being mean an arrogant, that hurts, but it can be fun, also. Just ignore their meanness and their arrogance, and show them where their reasoning is flawed.

 

[Bob Estey]

So…umm…you are wanting me to type my thoughts out all over again about how I think they might all be true? I didn’t post any huge walls of text, I promise. Lol.

I often do something that might help. If the title of a thread grabs me or perplexes me, I read about the first page, sometimes two pages. but I only read the posts of the person who began the thread. I don’t read any of the replies at first. If The thought or idea has not been fleshed out within that space, or if I lose interest, or if the person is mean and arrogant, I just exit the thread. Saves me a lot of time.

Another thing that saves time is I begin skipping over the posts of certain people who just waste time wanting to teach their particular indoctrination over and over again, ad nauseum. They aren’t there to learn and consider and share and discover. They’re just there for repetition of their particular indoctrination.

I think you have more patience than I. If someone can't get their idea across in a short paragraph, I usually won't read the post.

As for people being mean an arrogant, that hurts, but it can be fun, also. Just ignore their meanness and their arrogance, and show them where their reasoning is flawed.

That being said, it would be interesting to see if you can tell me why all eschatological views are correct, in a short paragraph.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That being said, it would be interesting to see if you can tell me why all eschatological views are correct, in a short paragraph.

I will go gather the posts mr. lazy.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here Bob. Not much to read.

At Jesus’ first coming, prophecy seemed to suggest He would come from three different places - Nazareth, Bethlehem and Egypt. They had arguments about which of those He would come from. It is certain they did. It played out that He actually did come from all three at different times, just as God had spoken to the prophets.

Prophecy, once again, seems to say He will come from 3 places in 3 ways at 3 different times.
1. Suddenly, when least expected and people are saying peace, marrying and partying.
2. From Bozrah with robes stained red.
3. After His sign is seen in the sky, on the clouds, when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.

So…about these three…
#1 could not be after the tribulation because, seriously, who would be eating, drinking, partying and planning weddings after that hideous time of Gods wrath and the things it says will be happening?? At the very least, #1 would have to be prewrath. But then…how would it be when least expected? It seems to fit pretrib best.

#2 seems to obviously be after the wrath of the Lamb/God. It’s Isaiah I think?

#3 has to be after the second resurrection because “those who pierced Him” see Him.

 

[Bob Estey]

Here Bob. Not much to read.

So there might be some truth in each of them. Jesus is with us right now, of course, and always will be. It would seem prudent to be on our best behavior. So, then, "best behavior" needs to be defined. Want to tackle that one, young lady?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?

Close, he comes Pre Trib to Harvest the Church(Barley) and at the Second Coming to Harvest everyone else (Wheat). Barley doesn't have to be crushed in order to be harvested, it can be, but doesn't have to be thus it was a cheaper product. Wheat had to be crushed before it could be Harvested. The very word Tribulation comes from a a Greek word speaking about a TRIBULUM a machine that Crushes the wheat. So, the Wheat must me crushed just as those who missed the Rapture must be crushed before they can be harvested. The Jews repent during the tribulation period as do the 5 Virgins who missed the Rapture and become Martyrs. (The Jews will be protected, the Martyrs will not because God promised Abraham a continual seed on this earth.)

We know that no one from the 70th week goes to Heaven until the 70th week ends. In Seal #5 Jesus clearly tells those under the altar that they MUST WAIT until their brothers have all been killed in like manner as they have, in other words, those martyrs have to wait until the coming Anti-Christs 42 month reign of terror is over. In Revelation 20:4 we see that only those who refused the Mark of the Beast will live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years on this earth AND they are judged, as we can clearly see in Rev. 20:4, AFTER the Second Coming. So, no one goes to Heaven during the 70th week. Rev. 14 is the Harvest Chapter. The Jewish people were taught to celebrate three grain & fruit harvests every year, the Barley, the Wheat and the Grape Harvests. In Rev. 14 we see all three. But how do you show all three which happen with a 7 year gap? You use a FLASHBACK as Jesus does in verse 14. (The wicked Grapes are getting Harvested over a 3.5 year period of time, by being killed, but are not going to heaven, they are judged after the 1000 year reign of Christ).

Rev. 14, The Harvest Chapter. The Wheat, the Grapes (at the end) and the Barley. Remember, the Wheat and tares grow together until the very end.

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

The Wheat

These 144,000 represent ALL Israel, as in 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 which is therefore code for ALL Israel who repents. They are "Virgins" just like the 10 Christian Virgin Brides were, in symbolic form, meaning they have taken on Christ who has made them whole. They are male and female, just like the 10 brides are ALL Christendom (male & female). I will now SKIP to the Wicked Grapes who are Harvested in full at the same time (Second Coming) as these 144,000.

Rev. 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

The Grape Harvest

The Wicked are all killed at the vey end, Armageddon finishes off this Harvest. In a way this Harvest could be said to be happening for 3.5 years because it actually starts at the 1260 middle of the week and lasts for 42 months.

The FLAHBACK to the Pre Tribulation Rapture.

Rev. 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man(Jesus), having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The Barley Harvest was always the first harvest of the season, and did not need to be crushed

So, Jesus NOT ON EARTH, but from upon on a CLOUD Harvests the Church, pre tribulation. Barley does not need to be crushed. If anyone wants to read about it in depth see the link below.

Three Main Harvests Of Souls

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So there might be some truth in each of them. Jesus is with us right now, of course, and always will be. It would seem prudent to be on our best behavior. So, then, "best behavior" needs to be defined. Want to tackle that one, young lady?

No! Lol.
Just kidding.
Trying to think if I can tackle it in a paragraph…
Here goes.
Best behavior is different with a child. Everyone is pleased when a baby soils himself many times a day and would become concerned if he didn’t. They’re pleased if he begins to grab things and try to pull himself upright for a few seconds. At a certain point, say…five years old, if the child is still soiling himself many times a day, he faces some consternation.

If a five year old stumbles and falls a lot, no one is concerned. Five year olds can be clumsy. But if a ten year old is still stumbling and falling a lot, something is wrong and it needs to be taken before a physician to determine what is happening that is causing the problem.

So “best behavior” or “what will please the parent” changes as the child grows. Or as my friend says, righteousness is a moving target.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Close, he comes Pre Trib to Harvest the Church(Barley) and at the Second Coming to Harvest everyone else (Wheat). Barley doesn't have to be be crushed in order to be harvested, it can be, doesn't have to be thus it was a cheaper product. Wheat had to be crushed before it could be Harvested.

Hmm…something there doesn’t sit right with me. I don’t mean about the harvests. That could fit, since we know there was already a collection with “and they saw many of their dead walking around.”
My problem is with the thought of no crushing, because it’s not my experience at all. AND it doesn’t fit with scripture either, (picking up your cross.)
44 Anyone who stumbles over that stone will be broken to pieces, and it will crush anyone it falls on.”

 

[Bob Estey]

No! Lol.
Just kidding.
Trying to think if I can tackle it in a paragraph…
Here goes.
Best behavior is different with a child. Everyone is pleased when a baby soils himself many times a day and would become concerned if he didn’t. They’re pleased if he begins to grab things and try to pull himself upright for a few seconds. At a certain point, say…five years old, if the child is still soiling himself many times a day, he faces some consternation.

If a five year old stumbles and falls a lot, no one is concerned. Five year olds can be clumsy. But if a ten year old is still stumbling and falling a lot, something is wrong and it needs to be taken before a physician to determine what is happening that is causing the problem.

So “best behavior” or “what will please the parent” changes as the child grows. Or as my friend says, righteousness is a moving target.

Is there a target we are aiming for?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is there a target we are aiming for?

Aw, go ahead bob, wreck my thread.
Yes, there’s a target, but it’s a moving target as my friend says. To whom more is given, more is expected.
The target is to do what is right in Gods eyes.
There is the righteousness men are capable of (though they sometimes hit and sometimes miss.) Men sometimes do what is right and sometimes don’t. Then there is the righteousness of Christ, another story.

But honesty goes such a long way with God. Look at the two sinners praying. They were exactly the same, both sinners. So why did only one of the sinners walk away having done what was right in Gods sight? One of them hit the target.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Aw, go ahead bob, wreck my thread.
Yes, there’s a target, but it’s a moving target as my friend says. To whom more is given, more is expected.
The target is to do what is right in Gods eyes.
There is the righteousness men are capable of (though they sometimes hit and sometimes miss.) Men sometimes do what is right and sometimes don’t. Then there is the righteousness of Christ, another story.

But honesty goes such a long way with God. Look at the two sinners praying. They were exactly the same, both sinners. So why did only one of the sinners walk away having done what was right in Gods sight? One of them hit the target.

You could say…the one man went to God as a little child…
You know those adorable videos parents post, like a child with chocolate smeared all over their face and hands? And the parent says, did you eat the chocolate cake? No, mommy, I didn’t! Are you SURE you didn’t…? No, I didn’t!
Eventually, the parent says, you aren’t going to get in trouble if you ate the cake. You’re only going to get in trouble if you don’t tell me the truth. And at some point you see the wheels turning as the child grasps what’s being said. And they sometimes make double sure before they choose their course of action by asking, I won’t get in trouble…? And when they’re really sure they won’t be in trouble, they do what the parent wants and admit the truth and when they do, the parent is very pleased and hugs and kisses them and says, thank you so much for telling me the truth!
I love those videos.

 

[Enoch111]

which is correct?

Now you are traveling in Fantasyland. If they are all "equally" correct then they should all be IDENTICAL. Capisce?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Now you are traveling in Fantasyland. If they are all "equally" correct then they should all be IDENTICAL. Capisce?

Oh, stomp, stomp, stomp!
They each have a piece.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?

may sound stupid but your question makes me think of all those that say they are certain He will return in their lifetime. How they say the Spirit told them He would return before their passing away. Then they die. Often I’ve wondered could it still have been true what they said? Or wrong?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is kind of funny. When I began this thread, I thought to myself, if anyone could even grasp a little the thought I’m trying to convey in my op, it would be 7 people I can think of, and who knows if they will even find the thread? And don’t you know, now 4 of those 7 found it and liked the first post because they could at least see it.

I’ve tried to work on this for awhile but every time I did, I had to stop, it wasnt working for some reason, so I thought, maybe I’m just not the one to do it, to lay it all out completely. But this morning, I suddenly saw how to do it. Or at least how to approach it, and I took that as a green light finally. I believe God will help me with it now. And there are at least four others that I’m certain can help fill in any holes! I don’t know how long it will take though, so…I’ll post when I have enough for us to start with.

 

[Enoch111]

may sound stupid but your question makes me think of all those that say they are certain He will return in their lifetime. How they say the Spirit told them He would return before their passing away.

Could you kindly give us EXACT QUOTES from people who may have said this? And "return" can easily be misunderstood, since some think it is the Rapture, while other know it is the Second Coming of Christ to earth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

may sound stupid but your question makes me think of all those that say they are certain He will return in their lifetime. How they say the Spirit told them He would return before their passing away. Then they die. Often I’ve wondered could it still have been true what they said? Or wrong?

Oh, you never sound stupid to me. Sometimes I can’t grasp whatever quick flash of connection you seemed to see, but you’ve never sounded stupid to me. Sometimes we know we saw something but it eludes our grasp when we try to explain it and we end up with a stunningly puzzling mess if we try! It’s a bit like trying to chase down a mosquito - there he is, oops, no, I lost him, wait there he is! Lol.

When we’re in that odd… calm and passively receiving state, it’s best to not try to grab and explain, it’s not the time for that.
When we are back out of that state, working with the mind is then possible.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

may sound stupid but your question makes me think of all those that say they are certain He will return in their lifetime. How they say the Spirit told them He would return before their passing away. Then they die. Often I’ve wondered could it still have been true what they said? Or wrong?

You know, we make a lot of mistakes and assumptions of what the Spirit is saying at first. I went a very far ways in that a few years ago, in great error. We know it was the Spirit, but we don’t know what He said, or even if He said something, could have just been encouragement, so we tend to assume oh, it must have been this or that, and this or that is usually a mistake, AND it’s something we would like for Him to have said.

 

[ScottA]

It all comes down to the timing of "great tribulation." Which Jesus clarifies:

There is no greater tribulation [ever] than that which Christ suffered once for all.

It is quite amazing that Jesus even said "this time"...and so many just pass right over it and push it off as if some would-be event could somehow be greater than Christ being forsake by the Father to save us all from sin, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. Just amazing!

"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." Matthew 24:21

...and then He makes void ANY later possibility. "Ever."