The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[1stCenturyLady]

oh yes...I think you mentioned that before which I'd forgotten. Well, you could always just hop on a flight and come by....I promise, I won't make you walk from the airport.
I could catch a fish and we could pow wow over dinner......whadya say?

Sounds great. I could see all my relatives too!

 

[amadeus]

• Apologies for the time error. Here is the correction John:- Mountain time
• Monday 7.30pm
• Thursday 6.30pm
• Friday 6.30pm

Thanks, I have made a note of it. I will probably try it at least once this coming week.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Old Covenant Ten Commandments are in effect for sinners and they will be judged by them. But born again Christians are not sinners. Get it? We are under the laws that Jesus taught. To believe in Him, abide in Him and He in us, and love one another empowered by the Holy Spirit of Christ. His divine power is grace, and by His grace we are righteous and holy. We will rule with Christ.

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. " - Jas. 2:8-9

"For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty." - Jas. 2:11-12

James says that the idea that Christians can't sin and won't be judged by the Decalogue is total baloney, and i'm inclined to believe his words over yours'.

 

[GEN2REV]

No, the veil blinds you to the New Covenant. The verses before 2 Cor. 3:14-17 is talking about the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old Covenant, but those who argue that the Old Covenant is still valid, are blind to how the New Covenant replaces the old, because the New is deeper and consumes the letter of the law, and all that is left is the Spirit of the law, the true depth of meaning.

The veil also blinds you to the fact that the verses before James 2:12 was the Old Covenant laws, and the law of liberty is what replaced it - the New Covenant that liberates us from sin completely, liberating us from the need for the written laws on stone, because the deeper laws of Love are written on our hearts and conscience. Not the Ten Commandments, but to "Love God with all your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself." 1 John 3:23. Therefore we do not sin, the whole reason for the written law. Of course people who are not born again and still struggle with sin, need the old laws because their nature is still sinful and they need guidance and are judged by the Law.

And James 1:25 again is talking about the law of liberty - the New Covenant - not the Ten Commandments. Again the veil.

I'm so over this back and forth with you, but I'll correct you one more time using scripture only.

The Law of Liberty is the 10 Commandments; God's Law, not Moses' Law and not Jesus' abbreviated Commandments. Observe:

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."
James 2:12
Do the abbreviated Commandments of Jesus to love God and thy neighbor judge anybody?
Nothing in scripture makes that claim.

"The Law of the Lord is perfect, ..."
Psalms 19:7
This is OT so it's not referring to Jesus' abbreviated Commandments.

"... whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, ... this man shall be blessed ..."
James 1:25

"A blessing if you obey the (10) Commandments of the Lord your God, ..."
Deuteronomy 11:27

"I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (God Almighty) Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
Revelation 22:13-14

"Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and ... the last; I am He."
Isaiah 41:4

The Law of Liberty is the 10 Commandments of God.

 

[OzSpen]

Wasn't that when Israel was ruled by a theocracy?

"When will your deaf ear begin to hear again ?" is a pretty snotz thing to say.

So, do you think it is sinful to lie, commit adultery, steal, take God's name in vain, worship idols, or to dishonor parents?

And what's up with this? Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"

Cassandra,

The OT certainly was for Old Covenant teaching. I believe it is sinful to lie, commit adultery, steal, take the Lord's name in vain, worship idols, and dishonoring parents. As a Christian I get my teaching from the NT and OT. See the article I've compiled, comparing OT and NT teaching on the Ten Commandments.

The only OT commandment NOT in the NT list is worship on the Sabbath. We worship on the Lord's Day, which is Sunday.

Oz

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Cassandra,

The OT certainly was for Old Covenant teaching. I believe it is sinful to lie, commit adultery, steal, take the Lord's name in vain, worship idols, and dishonoring parents. As a Christian I get my teaching from the NT and OT. See the article I've compiled, comparing OT and NT teaching on the Ten Commandments.

The only OT commandment NOT in the NT list is worship on the Sabbath. We worship on the Lord's Day, which is Sunday.

Oz

Everything Jesus and the other apostles taught came straight from the OT. If OT theology means nothing to you, you might as well not own a bible or call yourself a Christian, because Eph 2 says biblical Christianity was built on what is written in the OT. God's say His people worship on the day that He consecrated for worship. Anti-Sabbatarians love to talk about how the Sabbath command isn't repeated in the NT, but Sabbath keepers can play the same game by saying Sunday was never consecrated as the Christian worship day. The only difference is, the latter argument is the one out of 2 that actually has merit.

 

[quietthinker]

Sounds great. I could see all my relatives too!

what?, did you want to bring them for dinner?

 

[GEN2REV]

The only OT commandment NOT in the NT list is worship on the Sabbath. We worship on the Lord's Day, which is Sunday.

The Sabbath Commandment doesn't need to be "Commanded" in the NT when Jesus was keeping it all of His life and all of His disciples and later followers kept it as well. It is a given. There is zero scripture that repeals it, or any of the other 9 Commandments for that matter.

The Lord's Day is said to be the 7th Day Sabbath Saturday per scripture. The only reference to it anywhere in the entire Bible is Revelation 1:10 and the Bible defines that statement by John in Isaiah 58:13.

The Lord's Day is said to be Sunday per the Catholic Church, per the Emperor Constantine and by over-enthusiastic modern mainstream 'professed' Christians who know nothing of their Bible.

 

[Cassandra]

Cassandra,

The OT certainly was for Old Covenant teaching. I believe it is sinful to lie, commit adultery, steal, take the Lord's name in vain, worship idols, and dishonoring parents. As a Christian I get my teaching from the NT and OT. See the article I've compiled, comparing OT and NT teaching on the Ten Commandments.

The only OT commandment NOT in the NT list is worship on the Sabbath. We worship on the Lord's Day, which is Sunday.

Oz

Sunday was never designated as the Lord's Day in Scripture. It was supposedly made that to commemorate the Resurrection. But Jesus never told us to commemorate His resurrection, only His death.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. " - Jas. 2:8-9

"For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty." - Jas. 2:11-12

James says that the idea that Christians can't sin and won't be judged by the Decalogue is total baloney, and i'm inclined to believe his words over yours'.

Did you not see where I wrote that those who are not born again, sin, #1419. And sinners are judged according to the Ten Commandments? It is only those who do not sin by the power of God's grace who are NOT UNDER THE LAW. We are under a deeper law written on our hearts.

Some of you are quoting James 2:12 about the law of liberty which is the predecessor to the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments is the Old Covenant; and the law of liberty, the ministry of the Spirit is the New Covenant. They don't seem to realize that those who are judged by the law of liberty is a harsher judgment, because we who are born of God must become perfect. Whereas in the Ten Commandments one couldn't murder, but you could hate and not break any laws. But if a born again Christian hates his brother, we have broken the law of liberty. You see Jesus came for a Bride without spot or wrinkle.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm so over this back and forth with you, but I'll correct you one more time using scripture only.

The Law of Liberty is the 10 Commandments; God's Law, not Moses' Law and not Jesus' abbreviated Commandments. Observe:

"So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."
James 2:12
Do the abbreviated Commandments of Jesus to love God and thy neighbor judge anybody?
Nothing in scripture makes that claim.

"The Law of the Lord is perfect, ..."
Psalms 19:7
This is OT so it's not referring to Jesus' abbreviated Commandments.

"... whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, ... this man shall be blessed ..."
James 1:25

"A blessing if you obey the (10) Commandments of the Lord your God, ..."
Deuteronomy 11:27

"I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (God Almighty) Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
Revelation 22:13-14

"Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and ... the last; I am He."
Isaiah 41:4

The Law of Liberty is the 10 Commandments of God.

Read my last post #1430.

 

[GEN2REV]

Some of you are quoting James 2:12 about the law of liberty which is the predecessor to the Ten Commandments.

I think you meant the successor to the 10 Commandments.

But the verses I posted make clear that's not the case. They specifically refer to God's Law the 10 Commandments.

Jesus' Spirit was primed during His lifetime of obeying all of the Commandments. John 15:10

It would have done us no good for Him to send it to us after His ascension otherwise. It is only by the Holy Spirit's ability to obey the Commandments that those who love Christ are made able to continue to do so.

"If ye love Me, KEEP My Commandments."
John 14:15

Not "I" will keep them for you." Not "You won't have to keep them."

No, He says KEEP them.

"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of Truth;..."
John 14:16-17

See, it's WHEN you obey the Commandments of your own volition that God sends you the Holy Spirit. Scripture says it, not me.

"He that hath My Commandments, and KEEPETH them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father (whose Commandments they are), and I will love him, and will manifest Myself (My Spirit) to him."
John 14:21

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think you meant the successor to the 10 Commandments.

You're right. Thank you.

"He that hath My Commandments, and KEEPETH them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father (whose Commandments they are), and I will love him, and will manifest Myself (My Spirit) to him."
John 14:21

You are misleading people. Here is the actual verse.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him.

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The commandments of Jesus is what He preached, the gospel.

Now tell me this, what did the death of Jesus accomplish?

 

[OzSpen]

Everything Jesus and the other apostles taught came straight from the OT. If OT theology means nothing to you, you might as well not own a bible or call yourself a Christian, because Eph 2 says biblical Christianity was built on what is written in the OT. God's say His people worship on the day that He consecrated for worship. Anti-Sabbatarians love to talk about how the Sabbath command isn't repeated in the NT, but Sabbath keepers can play the same game by saying Sunday was never consecrated as the Christian worship day. The only difference is, the latter argument is the one out of 2 that actually has merit.

DoAN,

So are you going to support the OT punishments for sin as in the Pentateuch?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

You're right. Thank you.

Now tell me this, what did the death of Jesus accomplish?

1st,

Zilch if you live under the Old Covenant.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Everything Jesus and the other apostles taught came straight from the OT. If OT theology means nothing to you, you might as well not own a bible or call yourself a Christian, because Eph 2 says biblical Christianity was built on what is written in the OT. God's say His people worship on the day that He consecrated for worship. Anti-Sabbatarians love to talk about how the Sabbath command isn't repeated in the NT, but Sabbath keepers can play the same game by saying Sunday was never consecrated as the Christian worship day. The only difference is, the latter argument is the one out of 2 that actually has merit.

DoaN,

The NT taught more than affirming the OT. Non-Sabbatarians worship on the Lord's Day.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Sunday was never designated as the Lord's Day in Scripture. It was supposedly made that to commemorate the Resurrection. But Jesus never told us to commemorate His resurrection, only His death.

The first day of the week is the Lord's Day according to NT Scripture.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Sunday was never designated as the Lord's Day in Scripture. It was supposedly made that to commemorate the Resurrection. But Jesus never told us to commemorate His resurrection, only His death.

Are Sabbath laws binding on Christians today? No!

We would expect the Sabbath to no longer be in force since it was the covenant sign of the Mosaic covenant, and, as I have argued elsewhere in this book, it is clear that believers are no longer under the Sinai covenant. Therefore, they are no longer bound by the sign of the covenant either. The Sabbath, as a covenant sign, celebrated Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, but the Exodus points forward, according to New Testament writers, to redemption in Christ. Believers in Christ were not freed from Egypt, and hence the covenant sign of Israel does not apply to them.

It is clear in Paul’s letters that the Sabbath is not binding upon believers. In Colossians Paul identifies the Sabbath as a shadow along with requirements regarding foods, festivals, and the new moon (Col. 2:16–17). The Sabbath, in other words, points to Christ and is fulfilled in him. The word for “shadow” (skia) that Paul uses to describe the Sabbath is the same term the author of Hebrews used to describe Old Testament sacrifices. The law is only a “shadow (skia) of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities” (Heb. 10:1). The argument is remarkably similar to what we see in Colossians: both contrast elements of the law as a shadow with the “substance” (sōma, Col. 2:17) or the “form” (eikona, Heb. 10:1) found in Christ. Paul does not denigrate the Sabbath. He salutes its place in salvation history, for, like the Old Testament sacrifices, though not in precisely the same way, it prepared the way for Christ. I know of no one who thinks Old Testament sacrifices should be instituted today; and when we compare what Paul says about the Sabbath with such sacrifices, it seems right to conclude that he thinks the Sabbath is no longer binding (Justin Taylor, Is the Sabbath Still Required for Christians?)​

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

The Sabbath Commandment doesn't need to be "Commanded" in the NT when Jesus was keeping it all of His life and all of His disciples and later followers kept it as well. It is a given. There is zero scripture that repeals it, or any of the other 9 Commandments for that matter.

GEN,

What you've said here contradicts Scripture.

You are shadow boxing. The law is only a “shadow (skia) of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities” (Heb. 10:1). The argument is parallel to the argument in Colossians: both contrast elements of the law as a shadow with the “substance” (sōma, Col. 2:17) or the “form” (eikona, Heb. 10:1) found in Christ" (Gospel Coalition).

The good things came through Christ and the cross and they abrogated the need for Saturday worship.

Jesus taught:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished" (Matt 5:17-18 ESV).​

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Sunday was never designated as the Lord's Day in Scripture. It was supposedly made that to commemorate the Resurrection. But Jesus never told us to commemorate His resurrection, only His death.

Cass,

This is not exactly true.

"The Lord’s day (as distinguished from the day of the Lord) is Sunday. The term Lord’s day is used only once in Scripture. Revelation 1:10 says, “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet.” Since the apostle John does not elaborate on the meaning of “Lord’s day,” we can assume that his target audience, first-century Christians, were already familiar with the expression.

"Some have assumed that the Lord’s day is the New Testament equivalent of the Sabbath. The Sabbath day was instituted by God for the nation of Israel to commemorate His deliverance of them from Egypt (Deuteronomy 5:15). Sabbath began Friday at sunset and ended Saturday at sunset and was to be a day of complete rest from all labor, symbolic of the Creator’s resting on the seventh day (Genesis 2:2–3; Exodus 20:11; 23:12)," (GotQuestions?)​

Oz