Christians are not under the New Covenant

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theefaith

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The "end times" basically began with Gen 3:15 and will end with Revelations.

However, since the cross, we do refer also to the "end times" of this particular age. This "age" meaning there is no rapture of the church, no literal 1,000 years, and no new temple with sacrifices. Therefore, this "age" will end when we hear the last trumpet and see Christ coming on the clouds of glory! It is the opinion of many that Christ has stood up from his throne and is standing ---- which is a term that He is ready to act.

Are you ready for Him or are you too obsessed with Mary and the heretical Roman church to notice that the "signs" are all in place now?

I agree with you!

The last days began at Pentecost

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
 

Jane_Doe22

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Is the Roman Catholic church correct in saying that it is the mother of all believers?

What does the Bible say?

In Galatians 4:26, the apostle Paul writes “but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.”

According to the Bible it is the Jerusalem above which is our spiritual mother. It is the people of God who are already in heaven. It is not an earthly institution.

Considering that the Roman Catholic church is full of a system of salvation by penance, works and religious loyalty to itself, misleadingly referred to as “faith”, it hardly qualifies for the adjective “free”.

The Jerusalem above is free from sin, and free from legalism. This cannot be said of the Roman Catholic church based in Rome.

No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.

God has not entrusted any such group with this role. The apostle James, arguably the principle leader of the earthly church at Jerusalem (see Acts 15) said in his letter, “We all stumble in many ways”.
Note from an actual "Mormon": members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 100% acknowledge that other folks are Christian too, have valid & important relationships with Christ, and will be spending eternity dancing around with Christ. It's actually a much more inclusive view than many Protestants have. Yes, it is believed that Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the most correct church, but every person believes their church is the most right. That doesn't mean I (or anyone else) needs to deny the very obvious role God plays in other folks lives.
 

theefaith

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Is the Roman Catholic church correct in saying that it is the mother of all believers?

What does the Bible say?

In Galatians 4:26, the apostle Paul writes “but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.”

According to the Bible it is the Jerusalem above which is our spiritual mother. It is the people of God who are already in heaven. It is not an earthly institution.

Considering that the Roman Catholic church is full of a system of salvation by penance, works and religious loyalty to itself, misleadingly referred to as “faith”, it hardly qualifies for the adjective “free”.

The Jerusalem above is free from sin, and free from legalism. This cannot be said of the Roman Catholic church based in Rome.

No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.

God has not entrusted any such group with this role. The apostle James, arguably the principle leader of the earthly church at Jerusalem (see Acts 15) said in his letter, “We all stumble in many ways”.

The pope or successors of Peter never rule over a council, they always appoint another to do so
James in this case cos the council is not valid until the pope authorizes it and publishes its decrees

holy mother church
New or heavenly Jerusalem

the text refers to covenants

the new covenant is the church so holy mother church

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

The authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.

the church / the apostles and their successors are this very thing!

Jude 1:3 Thee faith handed to the church
Matt 28:19 teach

lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
 

theefaith

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Check what Jesus said about calling nobody your father:

Matthew 23 (WEB):
(1) Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
(2) saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat.
(3) All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do.
(4) For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them.
(5) But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments,
(6) and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues,
(7) the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi, Rabbi’ by men.
(8) But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers.
(9) Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven.
(10) Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ.
(11) But he who is greatest among you will be your servant.
(12) Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
(13) “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and as a pretense you make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
(14) “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men; for you don’t enter in yourselves, neither do you allow those who are entering in to enter.
(15) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel around by sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of Gehenna as yourselves.
etc.

it was taken from them Matt 21:43 given to the apostles Matt 16:18-19 and 18:18

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.




Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
 

Jane_Doe22

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Nowehere does it say in scripture that the true Christian church is to be "all inclusive" regardless of their cultish doctrines. If fact we are told to flee from a heretical church.
Agreed, however that's a different point than the one you were making earlier.
 

Jane_Doe22

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And that was what post?
Post 1388, quoted below. My point was the I (or others LDS Christians) do not view ourselves / any institution as the only people receiving guidance from God.

Is the Roman Catholic church correct in saying that it is the mother of all believers?

What does the Bible say?

In Galatians 4:26, the apostle Paul writes “but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.”

According to the Bible it is the Jerusalem above which is our spiritual mother. It is the people of God who are already in heaven. It is not an earthly institution.

Considering that the Roman Catholic church is full of a system of salvation by penance, works and religious loyalty to itself, misleadingly referred to as “faith”, it hardly qualifies for the adjective “free”.

The Jerusalem above is free from sin, and free from legalism. This cannot be said of the Roman Catholic church based in Rome.

No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.

God has not entrusted any such group with this role. The apostle James, arguably the principle leader of the earthly church at Jerusalem (see Acts 15) said in his letter, “We all stumble in many ways”.
 

Moriah's Song

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My point was the I (or others LDS Christians) do not view ourselves / any institution as the only people receiving guidance from God.
I stick with this: "No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer."

To explain what that meant was that the Roman Catholic church claims to be the only "holy mother church" and that all others are false. That is not true. The true church; the body of Christ; the invisible remnant is the universal invisible church.

I was referring to "theefaith's posts" below but still do not believe that we should all get together for a big group hug.

Example: I can go into my own church and disagree with my pastor on the trend of "ecumenicalism" because that is like dancing with the devil.

Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

The authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer.
 

Jane_Doe22

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I stick with this: "No earthly institution, whether it be the Roman Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses Watchtower Society, or the so called Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), can claim to be the authoritative guardian of truth or exclusive agency of God upon the earth to which all true believers must defer."

To explain what that meant was that the Roman Catholic church claims to be the only "holy mother church" and that all others are false. That is not true. The true church; the body of Christ; the invisible remnant is the universal invisible church.

I was referring to "theefaith's posts" below but still do not believe that we should all get together for a big group hug.

Example: I can go into my own church and disagree with my pastor on the trend of "ecumenicalism" because that is like dancing with the devil.
I leave your disagreements on the Roman Catholic church to discuss with Roman Catholics.

LDS Christians have a different view on things, as do JW, referencing those does not make sense while discussing Roman Catholicism.
 

Moriah's Song

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I leave your disagreements on the Roman Catholic church to discuss with Roman Catholics.

LDS Christians have a different view on things, as do JW, referencing those does not make sense while discussing Roman Catholicism.
It does if the JW's refer to God in John 1:1 as "a god" and follow a man named Charles Taze Russell and the Mormons follow Joseph Smith and his "traditions."
 
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Jane_Doe22

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It does if the JW's refer to God in John 1:1 as "a god" and follow a man named Charles Taze Russell and the Mormons follow Joseph Smith and his "traditions."
As an actual “Mormon “ I’m going to disagree with you there, having lived my faith focused on God.

But obviously you’re entitled to think whatever you want and I acknowledge that.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Protestants aren’t the only ones that love Christ. That embrace Him as Lord and Savior. Whom dedicate their hearts, minds, and might to Him.
 

Moriah's Song

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Protestants aren’t the only ones that love Christ.
I never said they were! I truly believe that there is an "invisible remnant" that has existed since the Garden of Eden - of which that "tree of life" is made up of. Denominational names are only good for individuals that feel strongly about certain doctrines that are scripturally based and be able to determine which ones to avoid.
 

Moriah's Song

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Christ is high priest, so there must be low priests
That's a classic example of how the RCC comes up with their "funny, illogical, wiggle-worm traditions" that can be turned into anything and everything they want to hold over there parishioners heads to keep them in fear of losing their salvation if they defied the "church."
 
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quietthinker

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Christians are not under the New Covenant
are you implying they've passed another bill the people weren't informed about?
 

theefaith

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In the true church no one person should be more important than another. We are all part of the same body.

The way i see the three person Godhead is God - the mind, Jesus - the flesh and the Holy Spirit the heart or soul and we are all made in that image. Each of has the three parts that make us uniquely who we are.

yes you right when it comes to equality

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you areall one in Christ Jesus.

but not in roles!

there is a hierarchical authority that produces order peace and unity

same in the family

all are equal members of the family but not in role
There is a hierarchical authority that produces order peace and unity
Father
Then mother
Then children

understanding really is a beautiful thing!