Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Moriah's Song]

History of hermeneutics (Wikipedia)

Apostolic Fathers
See also: Apostolic Fathers and Christianity in the 2nd century
The principle of prophecy fulfillment was carried over from the Apostolic Age and was continued up to the beginning of the 3rd century A.D. For example, Irenaeus dedicates an entire chapter of Against Heresies to the defense of Isaiah 7:14, which was one of the chief prophecies used to validate Jesus as the Messiah.[3]

Even more than Irenaeus, the second century apologists tended to interpret and utilize most scripture as if it were primarily for the purpose of showing prophecy fulfillment. Prominent among these was Justin Martyr, who made extensive use of scripture to this end. Examples of prophecy fulfillment can be seen in his Apology, in which chapters 31–53 are specifically dedicated to proving through prophecy that Jesus was the Messiah. He uses scripture similarly in Dialogue with Trypho.

Here Justin demonstrates that prophecy fulfillment supersedes logical context in hermeneutics. He ignores the Christological issues that arise from equating Jesus with the golden calf of Bethel, which is the "him" that is being brought to the king in Hosea 10:6.

And when Herod succeeded Archelaus, having received the authority which had been allotted to him, Pilate sent to him by way of compliment Jesus bound; and God foreknowing that this would happen, had thus spoken: "And they brought Him to the Assyrian, a present to the king."[4]

It is likely that the preeminence of prophecy fulfillment was a product of the circumstances of the early church. The primary intent of early authors was a defense of Christianity against attacks from paganism and Judaism, as well as suppressing what were considered to be schismatic or heretical groups. To this end, Martin Jan Mulder suggested that prophecy fulfillment was the primary hermeneutical method because Roman society placed a high value upon both antiquity and oracles.[5] By using the Old Testament (a term linked with supersessionism) to validate Jesus, early Christians sought to tap into both the antiquity of the Jewish scriptures and the oracles of the prophets.

 

[theefaith]

History of hermeneutics (Wikipedia)

Apostolic Fathers
See also: Apostolic Fathers and Christianity in the 2nd century
The principle of prophecy fulfillment was carried over from the Apostolic Age and was continued up to the beginning of the 3rd century A.D. For example, Irenaeus dedicates an entire chapter of Against Heresies to the defense of Isaiah 7:14, which was one of the chief prophecies used to validate Jesus as the Messiah.[3]

Even more than Irenaeus, the second century apologists tended to interpret and utilize most scripture as if it were primarily for the purpose of showing prophecy fulfillment. Prominent among these was Justin Martyr, who made extensive use of scripture to this end. Examples of prophecy fulfillment can be seen in his Apology, in which chapters 31–53 are specifically dedicated to proving through prophecy that Jesus was the Messiah. He uses scripture similarly in Dialogue with Trypho.

Here Justin demonstrates that prophecy fulfillment supersedes logical context in hermeneutics. He ignores the Christological issues that arise from equating Jesus with the golden calf of Bethel, which is the "him" that is being brought to the king in Hosea 10:6.

And when Herod succeeded Archelaus, having received the authority which had been allotted to him, Pilate sent to him by way of compliment Jesus bound; and God foreknowing that this would happen, had thus spoken: "And they brought Him to the Assyrian, a present to the king."[4]

It is likely that the preeminence of prophecy fulfillment was a product of the circumstances of the early church. The primary intent of early authors was a defense of Christianity against attacks from paganism and Judaism, as well as suppressing what were considered to be schismatic or heretical groups. To this end, Martin Jan Mulder suggested that prophecy fulfillment was the primary hermeneutical method because Roman society placed a high value upon both antiquity and oracles.[5] By using the Old Testament (a term linked with supersessionism) to validate Jesus, early Christians sought to tap into both the antiquity of the Jewish scriptures and the oracles of the prophets.

then why are with the heretics and not the saints?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Here are the basics of hermentutics:

1. Taking verses in context
2. Understanding the content
3. Knowing the definition of words
4. Knowing the culture and history of the times
5. Using logic and common sense
6. Not basing some teaching on some far-fetched passage
7. Interpreting narratives in light of moral instrutions or teaching passages
8. Understanding the the big picture of the book/books
9. interpreting according to genre (prophecy, history, poetry, proverb, teachings
10. Recognize plays on words and don’t take everything literally—figures of speech
11. Interpret the implicit in light of the explicit
12. Don’t force a spiritual interpretation when a literal one makes sense
13. Know the Author.

Christians have the privilege of interpreting the Bible, but the responsibility to do it right: “…rightly dividing the Word of truth,” (cf. 2 Tim. 2:25), and not to twist the Scriptures to our own destruction (cf. 2 Pet. 3:16). Also, we observe and understand what the text means as interpretation and what it means to us as application.

 

[theefaith]

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

So Joseph cannot enter in where the Holy Spirit has entered!

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Isa 66:9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Mary and her virginity are Consecrated to God in immaculate purity, the pure gold of divine love!

Mary was the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone!


Can a man use the ark of the covenant for a common dinner table?

Then Joseph can in no any way use Mary for a common wife!

No mere man may enter where God conceived! Ez 44:2

Mary would not consent to God’s will and to receive the exalted dignity of the mother of God if it means violating her vow of perpetual virginity then why simply consent relations with Joseph!

That’s impossible!

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

(This verse imply’s that Mary is consecrated to God alone! and has taken a vow of perpetual virginity! She was s willing to refuse even the exalted dignity of mother of God, the mother of our savior, and mother of all Christians if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

She consented to our salvation when she realized it would not violate her vow of perpetual virginity!

 

[Moriah's Song]

@theefaith ....you really don't get the message do you!!

What you just posted is a classic example of an obsesssion with the worship of Mary to the extreme!

Therefore, I will not longer reply to your post and recommend that others do so because you are a "troll" seeking nothing more than being at the center of attention at all times with complete disregard to the thread that was started.

 

[amigo de christo]

I said I have my doubts
But it’s based on his teaching

If any comes and preaches another gospel ...............
The all inclusive lie that all religoins serve the same God and that they are all saved
if they just do good works . IS ANOTHER GOSPEL . And JOHN said not to even bid one like that god speed .
Just cause he sits head over the CC dont make him saved my friend .

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith ....you really don't get the message do you!!

What you just posted is a classic example of an obsesssion with the worship of Mary to the extreme!

Therefore, I will not longer reply to your post and recommend that others do so because you are a "troll" seeking nothing more than being at the center of attention at all times with complete disregard to the thread that was started.

the eighth commandment forbids bearing false witness against Thy neighbor

I never said to worship Mary!
Reverence, honor, devotion yes!

worship, adoration, offering sacrifice no!

 

[amigo de christo]

That is right, my dear brother. We must warn against pope francis and just pray this man repents and turns to the biblical Lord Jesus. Until he does, stay away from this pope’s teachings. I am getting some fencing done for my back garden shortly. It will have concrete posts. So all welcome to come watch concrete cure instead of listening to this pope francis.

Exactly dear sister . We must do all to point to CHRIST JESUS and warn folks to steer clear of those who are false .

 

[Moriah's Song]

worship, adoration, offering sacrifice no!

synonyms for reverence: venerate, revere, awe, worship, adoration, homage, awe
synonyms for devotion: worship, dedicaton, devoutness, piety, loyalty, allegiance, fidelity

 

[theefaith]

If any comes and preaches another gospel ...............
The all inclusive lie that all religoins serve the same God and that they are all saved
if they just do good works . IS ANOTHER GOSPEL . And JOHN said not to even bid one like that god speed .
Just cause he sits head over the CC dont make him saved my friend .

i agree with you here pal
That’s gospel of freemasonry
All inclusive all people religions doctrines
All religions lead to God
It’s Gnosticism
Religious indifference
Deny’s Jesus Christ Jn 14:6
Jn 15:1-5
Lk 2:10-11
Jn 3:16
Jn 1:36
Heb 9:28
1 pet 1:18-19

 

[Illuminator]

That is right, my dear brother. We must warn against pope francis and just pray this man repents and turns to the biblical Lord Jesus. Until he does, stay away from this pope’s teachings. I am getting some fencing done for my back garden shortly. It will have concrete posts. So all welcome to come watch concrete cure instead of listening to this pope francis.

Here is a list of the Pope's official teachings:
The Papal Encyclicals Online
Which of these are you saying we should stay away from? On what grounds??? "Biblical Lord Jesus" according to who? Your private interpretation of what is biblical and what is not?

 

[theefaith]

Exactly dear sister . We must do all to point to CHRIST JESUS and warn folks to steer clear of those who are false .

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

synonyms for reverence: venerate, revere, awe, worship, adoration, homage, awe
synonyms for devotion: worship, dedicaton, devoutness, piety, loyalty, allegiance, fidelity

just English

they say to a judge “your worship”
Does that mean they think he is God and are adoring him!
No
Worship requires intent!

 

[Moriah's Song]

Wiggle-worming around "worship" for a judge in England does not have the same intent that idol "worship" of Mary has worldwide in the Roman Catholic church.

This is also called a "straw-mans" argument. It is always easy to see the absurdness of that kind.

 

[Moriah's Song]

In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!

That is heresy! Only Jesus is the "ark of our salvation" -- no one else!

Rev 11:19 - Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple;
​

No mention of Mary whatsoeverin the entire book of Revelation!

To put Mary as "the new ark of the living Word" (caps?) on the same level as the triune Godhead is tantamount to worship and is "blasphemy" and nothing else?

Mark 2:7 - “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Matthew 26:65 - Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.
​

 

[theefaith]

Wiggle-worming around "worship" for a judge in England does not have the same intent that idol "worship" of Mary has worldwide in the Roman Catholic church.

This is also called a "straw-mans" argument. It is always easy to see the absurdness of that kind.

no Moriah seriously it’s you who have an obsession with Mary worship not me!

intention is required!

even if you participate in a Christian worship service and ho thru the motions of worship, if you have not intention of the heart to be worshiping God then you are not doing so!

worship involves the heartfelt intention of worthily worshipping God!

hi Pearl, Cassandra, and 1st century lady, hope you’re well!

 

[theefaith]

That is heresy! Only Jesus is the "ark of our salvation" -- no one else!

That’s true Christ and his church are the ark of salvation
But here we are saying the ark of the new covenant

Rev 11:19 - Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple;
​

No mention of Mary whatsoeverin the entire book of Revelation!

that refers to the mosaic covenant ark and then next chapter the new covenant ark rev 12:1

To put Mary as "the new ark of the living Word" (caps?) on the same level as the triune Godhead is tantamount to worship and is "blasphemy" and nothing else?

not at all
Do you say the same about the ark of Moses? No

Mark 2:7 - “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Christ is God and has power to forgive sin and extends this to his church Jn 20:23 see below

Matthew 26:65 - Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.
​

never said mary is God!
So no blasphemy

 

[Moriah's Song]

Troll?

 

[theefaith]

Troll?

No one of forcing you to respond

 

[Moriah's Song]

No one of forcing you to respond

No one forcing you to stay either! Most here would LOVE TO SEE YOU LEAVE so we can get back to the OP.