Any doctrine which elevates man in this life to make Him as God has satanic origin and leads to worshipping the beast rather than the creator. It's a cult builder.
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@Truth7t7 You believe in a literal coming back of Jesus and what happens then in your view.
You continue to use 1 Corinthians 15 as justification for something, as in one day when we die we are going to be resurrected and given a new psychical body, when you continue going off from what you shared it looked like to me, there is a fleshly body and also a spiritual body. The fleshly body dies and the soul is raised again, going back to God to be judged.
What is your overall message that you would like to share with me, when it comes to your view? Do you believe people who believe Jesus already came back are bad people and not true believers!? And instead are liars and deceivers?
Jesus wasn’t lying when He talked about his return too was he? This is the point I’m stressing.
Some people today say the apostle didn’t know what they were talking about!!
Either what Jesus said was true or it was a lie…
He said he would return to get the bride of Christ that pure and blamelesswhy don’t people believe it?
Why do people take a culture back then and try to apply it in totality on themselves it seems like a heavy burden and weight to carry… in my opinion.
Please be honest and open with me,
In a Christ
Matthew Gallagher
You continue to use 1 Corinthians 15 as justification for something, as in one day when we die we are going to be resurrected and given a new psychical body, when you continue going off from what you shared it looked like to me, there is a fleshly body and also a spiritual body. The fleshly body dies and the soul is raised again, going back to God to be judged.
What is your overall message that you would like to share with me, when it comes to your view? Do you believe people who believe Jesus already came back are bad people and not true believers!? And instead are liars and deceivers?
Jesus wasn’t lying when He talked about his return too was he? This is the point I’m stressing.
Some people today say the apostle didn’t know what they were talking about!!
Either what Jesus said was true or it was a lie…
He said he would return to get the bride of Christ that pure and blamelesswhy don’t people believe it?
Why do people take a culture back then and try to apply it in totality on themselves it seems like a heavy burden and weight to carry… in my opinion.
Please be honest and open with me,
In a Christ
Matthew Gallagher
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The Bible is very clear about the Second Coming of Christ. When the Antichrist masses his armies for the battle of Armageddon, then Christ will descend from Heaven with his armies of saints and angels. See Revelation 19 in order to destroy all the enemies of God and Christ.
Some people believe God will renew this earth or when we die we are going to a new earth and everything like that. And it fine if you believe that, I’m not here to knock you around for believing what one does.
My point is to encourage people to think for themselves and don’t fall into the traditions of men. For 2000 years and every year almost predictions of the end are always spread out there. However yet nothing still hasn’t happen.
Why? Why? Some people pray every night for Jesus to come, and to radicate the world when Jesus paid for sin, and has defeated sin, the devil his angels, grave , sheol, hell, separation from God.
The world has been reconciled to God, and Jesus was the one who accomplished it. He returned and gathered his bride in the day in age promised to those who were written to in the letters. Don’t you see the point?
The retuning of Jesus and victory over all things is now experienced freely without having to go to Jerusalem to worship God which was a requirement back then in that Age.
My point is to encourage people to think for themselves and don’t fall into the traditions of men. For 2000 years and every year almost predictions of the end are always spread out there. However yet nothing still hasn’t happen.
Why? Why? Some people pray every night for Jesus to come, and to radicate the world when Jesus paid for sin, and has defeated sin, the devil his angels, grave , sheol, hell, separation from God.
The world has been reconciled to God, and Jesus was the one who accomplished it. He returned and gathered his bride in the day in age promised to those who were written to in the letters. Don’t you see the point?
The retuning of Jesus and victory over all things is now experienced freely without having to go to Jerusalem to worship God which was a requirement back then in that Age.
How could that be the Second Coming since all the events PRECEDING the Second Coming are in the future? If Christians cannot even understand these simple truths, what hope is there for anyone else?
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mt 24:29,30)
Are you claiming that you do not believe this? It will happen LONG AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. But Christians go to the New Jerusalem not to a "new earth".
I believe the heaven and earth that Jewish people knew as their world was destroyed. Ushering in the new covenant.
“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Matthew, with all due respect -- you have absolutely no clue about many things in the Bible. What you should really be doing is asking questions, not declaring your beliefs as though they are valid. Even your understanding of the New Covenant is flawed. And I was perfectly "in context" for showing you exactly when the Second Coming occurs. So why did you switch and deflect from the question you had?
Well the thing is that context needs to be considered from chapter 21, and Jesus needs to be listened to as he cast judgement on the Pharisees and how he is then walking out of the temple… and Jesus told them the temple is going to be desolated… the the disciples comes to him privately and ask them when will all the things be they just heard coming from the temple…
Did everything Jesus tell them was a lie? Was all the stuff he said just null and voided by him saying “I don’t know the hour or the day but my Father does” well why did he even tell them all the descriptive language ?it all leads up to Jerusalem being destroyed and Gods wrath poured on the nation of Israel.
Do you believe any of these things because they are contextually correct, if you would like to go read and check it out.
I realize I will get a lot of flak for saying Jesus has returned already however Jesus himself talks about … do I listen to you or what Jesus had said and the apostles had said to that generation in accordance with his return?
My encouragement for others is to think for themselves and get in and dig deep and get context and see what Jesus did say, the apostles did say about the return according to what the Bible says.
Did everything Jesus tell them was a lie? Was all the stuff he said just null and voided by him saying “I don’t know the hour or the day but my Father does” well why did he even tell them all the descriptive language ?it all leads up to Jerusalem being destroyed and Gods wrath poured on the nation of Israel.
Do you believe any of these things because they are contextually correct, if you would like to go read and check it out.
I realize I will get a lot of flak for saying Jesus has returned already however Jesus himself talks about … do I listen to you or what Jesus had said and the apostles had said to that generation in accordance with his return?
My encouragement for others is to think for themselves and get in and dig deep and get context and see what Jesus did say, the apostles did say about the return according to what the Bible says.
Do you know a lot about the Jewish culture and traditions ? From what I understand the Jewish nation would understand their own world “heaven and earth” which was going to be made new?
How? by ridding the material aspects of worship to a whole new Heaven and earth in which all people can freely worship God without the material aspects which was made know through the Old Testament. Would this be an accurate statement? Or would you disagree?
Truth7t7
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Yes scripture "Clearly" teaches of a future visible return of Jesus Christ in the heavens, I have clearly described this in post #43
It's your opinion and belief, in a claim Jesus returned for his bride, therefore no future visible return will be seen, I strongly disagree
Your suggestion that persons believing such as you are bad people, liars, and deceivers is your claim
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I believe the biggest problem in today’s culture is the preaching that Jesus is still coming back today and we need to continue to play church, and judge others people in the congregation and if they aren’t fit the standard of man they are cast aside…
Its happened in so many church’s and even hellfire and damnation and torture and only some people are elect and God said to hell with everyone else because Jesus though they sing Jesus had the victory hasn’t had the victory.
Though I do not think it is wrong for people to go to church to learn about the word however if they are only feeding their own thoughts and not in according to the Bible how can you trust them?
Without questioning yourself are these things presented really true and accurate in accordance with the Bible? And what about Jesus and his victory over all things in Revelation? Historically it was written to 7 churches who read all about the coming quickness of Jesus and his return…
Wouldn’t that be an honest deduction: John wrote to the 7 churches in Asia Minor about the things that were in hand and soon to pass. That doesn’t mean 1000 years later in the future.
However you are free to decide for yourself as I desire no dominion over your faith.
Its happened in so many church’s and even hellfire and damnation and torture and only some people are elect and God said to hell with everyone else because Jesus though they sing Jesus had the victory hasn’t had the victory.
Though I do not think it is wrong for people to go to church to learn about the word however if they are only feeding their own thoughts and not in according to the Bible how can you trust them?
Without questioning yourself are these things presented really true and accurate in accordance with the Bible? And what about Jesus and his victory over all things in Revelation? Historically it was written to 7 churches who read all about the coming quickness of Jesus and his return…
Wouldn’t that be an honest deduction: John wrote to the 7 churches in Asia Minor about the things that were in hand and soon to pass. That doesn’t mean 1000 years later in the future.
However you are free to decide for yourself as I desire no dominion over your faith.
You still, it seems, do not understand what I do or do not believe. Do you even care if it does not agree completely with you? Have you seriously considered the possibility that you have missed receiving something God? All of us believe we are right, which Solomon confirmed 3000 years ago,
Remember Pontius Pilate's famous question to Jesus? "What is Truth?
Communication is a very important thing.
Does the word "future" even apply here? Can we communicate without it?
"Literal" on the other hand is a word used often on this forum and elsewhere by people who presume their listeners or readers understand their meaning. Unless I am already familiar their 'set in concrete' ATs [Absolute Truths] what might I really understand about them?
I try to avoid using "literal" without some clarification when I am speaking with someone who really wants a two-way discussion.
So then... have we come up with anything edifying to each other from our encounter? To anyone else? Are your ATs intact?
Do either one of us know as much as Jesus knew when he began his course as a man of flesh?
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
What does the Bible say about when Jesus Christ would return?
A lot.
First all the thorns have to be plucked out. The stones have to be removed. The bramble and the chaff needs to be burned. The earth needs to be plowed. Seeds need to be sown. And the rain needs to fall.
Then the Lord will come and check on all the fruits and nuts growing in his garden.
Hugs
A lot.
First all the thorns have to be plucked out. The stones have to be removed. The bramble and the chaff needs to be burned. The earth needs to be plowed. Seeds need to be sown. And the rain needs to fall.
Then the Lord will come and check on all the fruits and nuts growing in his garden.
Hugs
And if the future is now?
"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:34
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mt 24:29,30)
The part I find that gets confusing is determining carnal from spirit. IMO
I see the sun and moon not giving their light, as a great darkness, like a black cloud over the earth.
When truth and mercy are hidden behind lies and evil behavior.
The stars falling from heaven are those that keep the truth burning, but they themselves fall from grace.
The powers of heaven being shaken is like a challenge or battle between good and evil.
All these can be seen while Jesus walked the earth. And we see them today.
When Peter was preaching and the people heard, they were cut to the heart. Many people were there from all over the earth.
Clouds... now I don't see clouds like in the sky, I see clouds as groups of saints, the witnesses that go from place to place (like clouds)
spreading the (rain) Gospel.
And those that are born again, these are the witnesses and Jesus is IN them.
And they were going around everywhere showing the power and glory of God through them... as one man.
Today, we have little faith. The darkness is creeping in. The churches have all run after money and fame.
And we are in the middle of spiritual warfare. They are trying to change everything that we know is moral and true and replacing it with their own perveted and evil ways. The world is getting dark and dangerous.
What is the "sign" of the Son of Man in heaven?
I walked all the way back to Egypt and found God talking to Moses about "signs" .
Exo 8:20 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me. (Come out of her my people)
Exo 8:21 Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.
Exo 8:22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.
Exo 8:23 And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.
This sign, this "severing" "division" , this is the angels seperating the tares and the wheat.
We can see this happening today if you look closely at the hearts of men.
God is going through the vineyard marking those who believe and have faith and those that don't.
And notice it is those that are mourning that see the sign of his coming. Because the ones who are saved will be coming with him, as him in the midst of them.
We're just not there yet.
We all have to be in Unity with one spirit and one faith.
And then my friends...
We will move mountains
God Bless
Hugs
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Sng 6:10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?
Sng 6:11 I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The part I find that gets confusing is determining carnal from spirit. IMO
I see the sun and moon not giving their light, as a great darkness, like a black cloud over the earth.
When truth and mercy are hidden behind lies and evil behavior.
The stars falling from heaven are those that keep the truth burning, but they themselves fall from grace.
The powers of heaven being shaken is like a challenge or battle between good and evil.
All these can be seen while Jesus walked the earth. And we see them today.
When Peter was preaching and the people heard, they were cut to the heart. Many people were there from all over the earth.
Clouds... now I don't see clouds like in the sky, I see clouds as groups of saints, the witnesses that go from place to place (like clouds)
spreading the (rain) Gospel.
And those that are born again, these are the witnesses and Jesus is IN them.
And they were going around everywhere showing the power and glory of God through them... as one man.
Today, we have little faith. The darkness is creeping in. The churches have all run after money and fame.
And we are in the middle of spiritual warfare. They are trying to change everything that we know is moral and true and replacing it with their own perveted and evil ways. The world is getting dark and dangerous.
What is the "sign" of the Son of Man in heaven?
I walked all the way back to Egypt and found God talking to Moses about "signs" .
Exo 8:20 And the LORD said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Let my people go, that they may serve me. (Come out of her my people)
Exo 8:21 Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.
Exo 8:22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.
Exo 8:23 And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.
This sign, this "severing" "division" , this is the angels seperating the tares and the wheat.
We can see this happening today if you look closely at the hearts of men.
God is going through the vineyard marking those who believe and have faith and those that don't.
And notice it is those that are mourning that see the sign of his coming. Because the ones who are saved will be coming with him, as him in the midst of them.
We're just not there yet.
We all have to be in Unity with one spirit and one faith.
And then my friends...
We will move mountains
God Bless
Hugs
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Sng 6:10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?
Sng 6:11 I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
hello @Ziggy
When you go back and look from Chapter 21 to 24 the picture is even open further concerning the context. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it Ziggy. You know when you go and look in the Old Testament it’s amazing how many times about Jerusalem is to become desolate eventually to the point where God would end up pouring out his wrath on the nation of Israel.
I just did a few video readings on Matthew Chapter 10: it talks about that division about how Jesus had not to come bring peace upon the earth but a sword. I take the earth meaning their land: and Jesus had come to cause a division between those of the world and those who are about the kingdom in having love for God for others. Those in that day in age were encouraged to stay in Christ, and they had to deal with certain things with their own groups with spoken misconceptions from the words of not only Jesus however the apostles themselves.
In Matthew 10 it talks directly how Jesus tell his disciples would come upon governs and kings and be tried. He encouraged them to not worry about what they would say for the spirit would speak which is from the Father would give them the words to say. (Book of acts)
In Matthew 10 it speaks directly how Jesus gave his 12 disciples power to cast out demons and help the lepers. Only them was this given the ability to be done.
In Matthew 10: Jesus directly states for them not go in the way of the Gentiles or Samaritan’s and they are told to go only to the lost sheep of Israel- later Paul would go to gentile.
When you go back and look from Chapter 21 to 24 the picture is even open further concerning the context. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it Ziggy. You know when you go and look in the Old Testament it’s amazing how many times about Jerusalem is to become desolate eventually to the point where God would end up pouring out his wrath on the nation of Israel.
I just did a few video readings on Matthew Chapter 10: it talks about that division about how Jesus had not to come bring peace upon the earth but a sword. I take the earth meaning their land: and Jesus had come to cause a division between those of the world and those who are about the kingdom in having love for God for others. Those in that day in age were encouraged to stay in Christ, and they had to deal with certain things with their own groups with spoken misconceptions from the words of not only Jesus however the apostles themselves.
In Matthew 10 it talks directly how Jesus tell his disciples would come upon governs and kings and be tried. He encouraged them to not worry about what they would say for the spirit would speak which is from the Father would give them the words to say. (Book of acts)
In Matthew 10 it speaks directly how Jesus gave his 12 disciples power to cast out demons and help the lepers. Only them was this given the ability to be done.
In Matthew 10: Jesus directly states for them not go in the way of the Gentiles or Samaritan’s and they are told to go only to the lost sheep of Israel- later Paul would go to gentile.
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