Can you be saved if you don't believe in the diety of Christ?

[atpollard]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

Perhaps if you are ignorant, but probably not if you deny the truth.
God has the final decision on who makes the cut.

 

[atpollard]

[Romans 10:8-13 YLT]

But what doth it say? 'Nigh thee is the saying -- in thy mouth, and in thy heart:' that is, the saying of the faith, that we preach; that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation; for the Writing saith, 'Every one who is believing on him shall not be ashamed,' for there is no difference between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all [is] rich to all those calling upon Him, for every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.'​

 

[Titus]

There's a real problem with that, though. Scripture contradicts it.

In the first place, not one single recorded instance of Jesus' disciples baptizing someone, did they use the trinity method. They were all, every one of them, performed in the Name of Jesus Christ. Did they ignore Jesus' command? Did they misunderstand Him? Impossible.

The other issue is who exactly Jesus describes the Holy Spirit to be. And He makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is He AND the Father, both. That not only contradicts the Trinity, but it contradicts the idea that Jesus is not God and that there is more than one God. It fully supports oneness doctrine. As do many Old Testament quotes from God Himself. Here's the passage.

"... he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself (Jesus) to him. ... If a man love Me (Jesus), ... My Father will love him, and we (Jesus AND the Father) will come unto him, and make our abode with him (live in Him as the Holy Spirit)."
John 14:21
John 14:23

These are contradictions straight from scripture; zero opinion or bias whatsoever.

If the lost must know who God is, they must have all the scripture available on the subject to come to that conclusion. Not just those that appear to support the most popular doctrines in modern Christendom.

Which church do you worship with?
Are they charismatic, penetcostal?


The God-head is ancient teaching not modern.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion.....

God refers to Himself as Us, Our image.

Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us,....

Jesus teaches in His commission to baptize in the name of who?
Matthew 28:19
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus never even used Jesus as the name one is baptized into.
Jesus taught we are baptized into Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not teaching this is a spoken formula that is said during baptism.
By Jesus saying to baptize them in the name of... means by Gods authority.

Verse 18 says all authority has been given to Me. Jesus is teaching it is by Gods authority that we teach the gospel.
It is by Gods authority that we baptize in Jesus' gospel.

The baptism in Jesus' gospel does not require a spoken name to be said in order for the baptism to be according to Gods commandments.

Nowhere in Jesus' gospel is it commanded that the baptizer speak Jesus' name during the baptism.

Nothing wrong with the baptizer saying something similar to,
"I baptize you in the name of Jesus" or
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

Also it would be acceptable to God if the one doing the baptizing said nothing, only did the physical act of immersing them in water.

Peter did not preach one must say "in the name of Jesus I baptize you" in Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter taught that the baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ. Meaning by His authority.
Peter did not teach that the baptizer must say this phrase, "I baptize you in the name of Jesus"

Jesus Himself taught to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Therefore Jesus does not require that the phrase "In Jesus' name I baptize you" be said.

The apostle Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunch in Acts 8.
What did the baptizer Philip say?
He said nothing right before he baptized the eunch.

Acts 8:26-37-39
Then Philip said, if you believe with all your heart you may. And he(Ethiopian Eunch) answered and said,
"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God".
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so the eunch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Philip never said Jesus' name by mouth when he baptized the eunch.
There is no commandment in the new testament that teaches we must say Jesus' name before one is baptized.

What is required is that the person being baptized understands that their baptism is the baptism commanded in Jesus' gospel. And this obedience to be baptized is by Jesus' authority.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus' baptism because it is commanded by Jesus in His gospel.

 

[Titus]

As a JW, feel free to ask me anything you like. I’m sure that she was willing to discuss, but not to agree that Jesus is God because it simply does not even mention a trinity in the Bible.

If you would like to discuss Hebrews 1…I am happy to do that.

I know that the trinity has become the very foundation of Christendom’s teaching, but if Jesus never once said that he was God or even his equal, where did such a notion come from? Jesus was Jewish and he taught from Jewish scripture…..there is no trinity even hinted at in those scriptures. No Jew would have accepted that their Messiah was God incarnate…..they wanted to stone him for claiming that he was God’s son.
It is curious that no Abrahamic faith accepts a trinity except Christendom, and only officially accepted it hundreds of years after Jesus died……and yet paganism is full of trinities of gods. Google pagan trinities and see….

When the Jews were trying to pin a charge of blasphemy on Jesus in order to have an excuse to put him to death…..
John 10:31-36…
“Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. 32 Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” 33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” 34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”

If people stumble over the word “god” (theos) in the Christian Bible then here is a classic example of what that word really means…..God himself called the human judges in Israel “gods” because they had his divine authority. The “divinity” of Christ is not proclaiming that he is the Almighty, but that he has divine authority that was *given* to him by his Father.

Matthew 28:18-20….
“Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Jesus’ disciples were told by whose authority he spoke and whose words he spoke…..and they were in no doubt as to who was their God, and who was their Lord and teacher Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6….
“For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

It is very clear and simple…no tap dancing required……Christendom has it all wrong and the charge is
Blasphemy!….they have put two other “gods” in the Father’s place…something no Jew could ever have done. It was a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)

At the judgment Jesus calls the ones he has rejected, “workers of lawlessness”…(Matthew 7:21-23) ….this is the law they break. It carried the death penalty.

I am open for any new discussion on this….

You are using the Jehovah witness Bible, which is a perversion of the true Bible.

John 10:33 says God. Your Bible wrongly says a god.

The Greek word used in
John 10:33 is Theon, meaning God.

No way possible your Jehovah witness Bible is correct on this verse.
The Jews were monotheists!
They did not believe in multiple gods!
Therefore, they would never have said to Jesus, "you make yourself a god".
They really said to Jesus that they stone Him for claiming to be God!

False interpretation from Jehovahs witness Bible:

33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.”

True interpretation of John 10:33
The Jews answered Him, saying,
For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.

In John 10:37 Jesus speaks of His Father. We know Jesus had no earthly Dad.
Jesus' Father is God. Therefore Jesus must also be God.

It is said Joseph Mary's husband did not have sexual relations with Mary until she bore her first Son Jesus.

Matthew 1:24-25
Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.

We know Jesus had no physical father.
No one except Jesus is Gods only begotten Son.
This makes Jesus God.
Mary carried Jesus in her womb as a virgin.
It is scientifically impossible for a women to bear children without first having sex.(as a virgin)
No man or women can be born without a Dad by a virgin!

 

[Episkopos]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

We will not be judged by accepting a concept...but by our works...or what we have done with what we have been given. Whoever is faithful in little is also faithful in much.

The trinity doctrine has nothing to do with the deity of Christ. God is a duality of Father and Son...together in One Spirit. We join with them in fellowship through that same Spirit.

The trinity doctrine is an invention to maintain control over the religion called "Christianity." If the Spirit was not reduced to being just a name in a religious formula the ecclesiastical authorities would have no control over the flock. It is only as we understand our need of God and the POWER of His Spirit moving in and among us, that we recognize that the Holy Spirit IS the presence of God...not a separate person apart from God. God IS Spirit. There are not two Spirits of God. Such confusion normally doesn't affect simple believers...but we see how bad doctrine hurts those who see themselves as charismatics..or are trying to manifest gifts. Without a proper understanding these movements have gone off the rails so to speak because they are based on a false premise.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are using the Jehovah witness Bible, which is a perversion of the true Bible.

Who told you that? Have you ever really done any serious investigation into your allegation? Please show us where the NWT is in error....and I will show you why you are wrong.

John 10:33 says God. Your Bible wrongly says a god.

There is no definite article (ho) with "theos" indicating "a god" not "ho theos" meaning "THE God". YHWH (Yahweh)

Here it is from the Greek Interlinear......John 10:33
"The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.”

This is "theos" without the definite article. If the Jews had been accusing Jesus of claiming to be "THE God", they lied.

Contrast John 10:33 with John 1:1....
"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos."

The use of the definite article (the, ho) is confirmation that it is talking about Yahweh (Jehovah) as in the first mention of "theos" but the definite article (ho) is missing from the second "theos". "The Word" was not 'THE God', so he was "a god". Nowhere in any scripture did Jesus ever claim to be "God". Please provide a scripture where Jesus ever said he was Almighty God....?

Acts 12:22...It was said of King Herod that the crowd expressed that his was the voice of "a god".....
"But de the ho crowd dēmos began to shout epiphōneō, “It is the voice phōnē of a god theos, and kai not ou of a man anthrōpos!”

There is no definite article, so it is rendered "a god".

"Theos" is a word that means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities" so it is not a word used exclusively for Jehovah. It means any divine personage or one who was divinely authorized. Calling Jesus "theos" in no way makes him a deity equal to his God and Father. He definitely had divine authority however. (Matthew 28:18)

No way possible your Jehovah witness Bible is correct on this verse.
The Jews were monotheists!
They did not believe in multiple gods!

Don't look now but trinitarians have three gods. Squeezing them into one "head" doesn't cancel out the polytheism. There is "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit".....1+1+1=3.

Therefore, they would never have said to Jesus, "you make yourself a god".
They really said to Jesus that they stone Him for claiming to be God!

False interpretation from Jehovahs witness Bible:

Who told you that? It is apparent that you are taking your information from uninformed and biased sources.
Jesus said that he was God's son, not that he was God. (Read the account John 10:31-36)
So if the Jews were claiming he was God, they were lying because they were trying to pin a charge on him that incurred the death penalty. They wanted him dead.

True interpretation of John 10:33
The Jews answered Him, saying,
For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.

In John 10:37 Jesus speaks of His Father. We know Jesus had no earthly Dad.
Jesus' Father is God. Therefore Jesus must also be God.

Who said? I have no idea why there is an assumption that because Jesus was a son of God that he must be God.
Was Jesus the only "son of God"....not according to Genesis 6:2, 4.....Angels are also called "sons of God"...even Adam is called a "son of God". (Luke 3:38)

It is said Joseph Mary's husband did not have sexual relations with Mary until she bore her first Son Jesus.

Matthew 1:24-25
Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.

We know Jesus had no physical father.
No one except Jesus is Gods only begotten Son.
This makes Jesus God.

Does it? What does "only begotten" mean? The Greek word is "monogenes" and it simply means an "only child"...it is not a special word used to describe Jesus. According to Revelation 3:14, Jesus called himself "the beginning of God's creation".
And Colossians 1:15-17 calls Jesus...."the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (NASB)

What does "firstborn" mean?.....it means what it says...the firstborn of man or animals.
"Only begotten" means that this "firstborn" son was the first and only direct creation of his Father. The son was then used as the agency "through" whom the rest of creation came.

Perhaps some Bible study and unbiased research might help you with the facts rather than relying on what others have told you.....?

 

[MatthewG]

Good luck on sharing with you Jw friend.

I miss talking to my old Jw friend.

They are very stern on how they do things, and possibly hard to change their mind, same thing with Mormons.

I am not so much concerned with people who are lost, as I am those who have already found Christ, and desire to learn more about him. To me Jesus wasn't a created being, He was the Word of God in the beginning, and came down from heaven leaving the bosom of the Father. Jesus was the expressed image of the invisible God (God's heart/mind/will/emotion).

It seems all these differences God has allowed for some reason, but the truth is still founded and rest upon the Bible as a whole. I believe that most versions of the Bible are as good as they can be.

Though I do not believe Jesus was - a God - or a created being. Though He was born into flesh. He existed in the beginning with God, and was the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit was hovering above the waters of the yet to be formed earth.

Just my thoughts,
God bless,
Matthew Gallagher.

 

[The Disciple John]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

Great question!
So glad you asked.
Since we know from scripture that God commands we listen to his son (“This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!” - Matthew 17:5), then the best person to hear the answer to this question, is the beloved, and only begotten son of God himself.

The Trinity has many faces, so I am not sure which one you have in mind. Perhaps you can define Trinity in detail.
Deity of Christ too, has several different faces. The description here, is different to what has presented by others, so I think having you define in detail what Deity of Christ is, would be useful.

Then we can compare what Jesus said, to what people believe, amd see if Jesus agrees, or disagrees.
I'll like to start with John 17
Jesus prayed to his father. Prayer is a part of worship. In prayer, Jesus said...
1 “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Let's consider this for starters.

• Jesus said he is a son of a father.
• Jesus said he was given authority from his father.
• Jesus said his father is the only true God.
• Jesus said to gain life, one must know the only true God, and the one sent forth - Jesus Christ.
• Jesus said his father gave him work to do.
• Jesus said he was in God's presence before the world began.

Does what Jesus said agree with what the Trinity and Deity of Christ say? Don't forget to define in detail what Trinity and Deity of Christ mean. Thanks.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

or better, can you if you do? Not likely, as it is not true. Jehovah is God, and Jesus is His son, that is what the Bible really teaches friend.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Good luck on sharing with you Jw friend.

I miss talking to my old Jw friend.

They are very stern on how they do things, and possibly hard to change their mind, same thing with Mormons.

I am not so much concerned with people who are lost, as I am those who have already found Christ, and desire to learn more about him. To me Jesus wasn't a created being, He was the Word of God in the beginning, and came down from heaven leaving the bosom of the Father. Jesus was the expressed image of the invisible God (God's heart/mind/will/emotion).

It seems all these differences God has allowed for some reason, but the truth is still founded and rest upon the Bible as a whole. I believe that most versions of the Bible are as good as they can be.

Though I do not believe Jesus was - a God - or a created being. Though He was born into flesh. He existed in the beginning with God, and was the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit was hovering above the waters of the yet to be formed earth.

Just my thoughts,
God bless,
Matthew Gallagher.

ALL persons cling to their beliefs sternly, no matter their creed.

As to “Mormons”: myself and others believe very strongly in the divinity of Christ. Christ is God. He has always existed, and is everlasting to everlasting. He, the Father, and Spirit are one three persons in one God. LDS Christians believe 1 in God

 

[Titus]

Who told you that? Have you ever really done any serious investigation into your allegation? Please show us where the NWT is in error....and I will show you why you are wrong.


There is no definite article (ho) with "theos" indicating "a god" not "ho theos" meaning "THE God". YHWH (Yahweh)

Here it is from the Greek Interlinear......John 10:33
"The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.”

This is "theos" without the definite article. If the Jews had been accusing Jesus of claiming to be "THE God", they lied.

Contrast John 10:33 with John 1:1....
"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos."

The use of the definite article (the, ho) is confirmation that it is talking about Yahweh (Jehovah) as in the first mention of "theos" but the definite article (ho) is missing from the second "theos". "The Word" was not 'THE God', so he was "a god". Nowhere in any scripture did Jesus ever claim to be "God". Please provide a scripture where Jesus ever said he was Almighty God....?

Acts 12:22...It was said of King Herod that the crowd expressed that his was the voice of "a god".....
"But de the ho crowd dēmos began to shout epiphōneō, “It is the voice phōnē of a god theos, and kai not ou of a man anthrōpos!”

There is no definite article, so it is rendered "a god".

"Theos" is a word that means...."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities" so it is not a word used exclusively for Jehovah. It means any divine personage or one who was divinely authorized. Calling Jesus "theos" in no way makes him a deity equal to his God and Father. He definitely had divine authority however. (Matthew 28:18)


Don't look now but trinitarians have three gods. Squeezing them into one "head" doesn't cancel out the polytheism. There is "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit".....1+1+1=3.


Who told you that? It is apparent that you are taking your information from uninformed and biased sources.
Jesus said that he was God's son, not that he was God. (Read the account John 10:31-36)
So if the Jews were claiming he was God, they were lying because they were trying to pin a charge on him that incurred the death penalty. They wanted him dead.


Who said? I have no idea why there is an assumption that because Jesus was a son of God that he must be God.
Was Jesus the only "son of God"....not according to Genesis 6:2, 4.....Angels are also called "sons of God"...even Adam is called a "son of God". (Luke 3:38)


Does it? What does "only begotten" mean? The Greek word is "monogenes" and it simply means an "only child"...it is not a special word used to describe Jesus. According to Revelation 3:14, Jesus called himself "the beginning of God's creation".
And Colossians 1:15-17 calls Jesus...."the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together." (NASB)

What does "firstborn" mean?.....it means what it says...the firstborn of man or animals.
"Only begotten" means that this "firstborn" son was the first and only direct creation of his Father. The son was then used as the agency "through" whom the rest of creation came.

Perhaps some Bible study and unbiased research might help you with the facts rather than relying on what others have told you.....?

No one tells me what to believe, that I blindly follow.
I have a rule I live by.
Everything that is told to me pertaining to scriptures, is not proven until it can be confirmed with scripture.

The Bible itself is the best interpreter of itself.

Who told you that? Have you ever really done any serious investigation into your allegation? Please show us where the NWT is in error....and I will show you why you are wrong

The first obvious clue that should make you a skeptic about your churches Bible is that they had to have their own Bible to teach their doctrines.
If your church really teaches Bible, then why do they need their own?
Do you not know that God has promised His Word will never be destroyed?
How can you believe the Bible when your church needed to create its own?

The indestructiblity of the Word(seed) , Bible
1Peter 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of God stands forever.

1Peter 1:24-25 because all flesh is grass, and all glory of man as the flower of the grass, the grass withers, and its flowers fails away, But the word of the Lord endures forever. Now this is the word by which the gospel was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

John 12:48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Revelation 20:12

Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words, Like silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times. You shall keep them, O Lord, You shall preserve them from this generation Forever.

Why do Jehovahs witness not believe the word of God?
They created their own Bible because they do not believe what Gods word teaches, that His word will never perish, preserved forever.

Here are the Bibles I used to answer John 10:33 as God not as Jehovahs witness say, a god:
New International Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Berean Study Bible
Berean Literal Bible
King James Bible
New Kimg James Version
New American Standard Bible
NASB 1995
NASB 1977
Amplified Bible
Christian Standard Bible
Holman Christian Stamdard Bible
American Standard Version
Aramaic Bible in plain English
Contemporary English Version
Douay-Rheims Bible
Good News Translation
International Standard Version
Literal Standard Version
New American Bible
NET Bible
New Revised Standard Bible
New Heart English Bible
Weymouth New Testament
World English Bible
Youngs Literal Translation

Second reason you should be skeptical about the Jehovahs Witness Bible.
Why do all these translations say God in John 10:33?
Not one of them teach a god as your Jehovah Witness Bible does!

You must believe that all these Bibles are error and only your translation is truth.
What year did the Jehovah Witness first publish their Bible?
Answer: The old testament was published in five volumes its first publication was in,
1953 to 1960.
The completed N.W.T. was released in 1961!
Wow, that's strange God did not keep His word preserved until the Witnesses in 1960's released their "updated" version. The watch tower continues to revise their NWT Bible. Many revisions have already been made.

Before the NWT the JW used the King James Version.
Let's quote the KJV on John 10:33,
-33 The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God.

Your argument is that the Jews referred to Jesus as a god. Not Jehovah.
Then prove the Jews were polytheist's?
You give me book, chapter and verse teaching Jews believed in more than one God and you will have a good argument. Until then your argument is absurd!

look now but trinitarians have three gods. Squeezing them into one "head" doesn't cancel out the polytheism. There is "God the Father", "God the Son" and "God the Holy Spirit".....1+1+1=3.

This has nothing to do with the Jews in John 10:33!

Who cares if modern day Christendom believes in the trinity.

That is not the subject of our discussion.

The subjects being discussed are jews.

You give me evidence the Jews believed in multiple gods, and then you will have a convincing argument.

Those Jews in John 10:33 were accusing Jesus of claiming to be the God! Not a god.
Why would they? They are not polytheist's! Prove they are. I will be waiting for your answer.

Also JW's believe the Angel's are gods, correct?
This proves the Jehovah Witnesses are the real polytheist's not Trinitarian's.

 

[MatthewG]

I am not Jehovah witness or Mormon.

A Christian who desires truth, thank you.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I am not Jehovah witness or Mormon.

A Christian who desires truth, thank you.

Hence why I share truth with you. No Christian, of any denomination, needs false information about what others believe.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank for you comment. I believe the Holy Bible is sufficient to learn from, Jane. You take care now.

 

[farouk]

I am not Jehovah witness or Mormon.

A Christian who desires truth, thank you.

@MatthewG

John 17.17: "Thy word is truth".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank for you comment. I believe the Holy Bible is sufficient to learn from, Jane. You take care now.

There’s actually two people by the name “Jane” here.

Was I understood? Is it clear that LDS Christians do believe in the divinity of Christ? This is a SUPER important topic and the its critical to dispel falsehood here, hence my pushing this.

If it make you more comfortable we can move to a different venue. But the divinity of Christ needs to be made clear.

 

[MatthewG]

I’ve done a study on it if you would like find out the Christian perspective, Jane.

This me in the flesh teaching about who Jesus is. It will take you an hour to gain a perspective on my view. It’s impossible to teach someone on a forum site especially when half the time individuals may not care. I pass up reading sometimes what people may post towards me because I don’t believe what they may suggest.

Take care,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[GEN2REV]

Which church do you worship with?
Are they charismatic, penetcostal?

I worship with the True Church that is Sola Scriptura. Denomination means absolutely nothing if your doctrine is not in line with what the Bible teaches in its entirety. That means not making doctrine out of a single verse or passage in scripture with nothing elsewhere to support it.

The God-head is ancient teaching not modern. Genesis 1:26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion..... God refers to Himself as Us, Our image.
Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us,....

The Bible is clear that God is speaking before all the angels of heaven when He makes that statement. You have been brainwashed, or otherwise chosen, to believe that because God uses a plural statement, it absolutely proves that God is 3 people. That is very, very naive.

The Bible supports no doctrine whatsoever of 3 Persons as God Almighty - neither does any human logic. They cannot be 3 persons and be one god. The trinity definition, itself, claims that they are 3 different people, but one god. That is preposterous by any spiritual or physical logic; and it is supported by zero scripture.

Peter did not preach one must say "in the name of Jesus I baptize you" in Acts 2:38.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Peter taught that the baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ.

There is only one Name in heaven and earth by which we must be saved. ONE Name.
Acts 4:10-12

Philip never said Jesus' name by mouth when he baptized the eunuch.
There is no commandment in the new testament that teaches we must say Jesus' name before one is baptized.

You are blind to the Truth. The entire interaction between Philip and the eunuch was about Jesus Christ.
"Then Philip opened his mouth, ... and preached unto him Jesus."
Acts 8:35
"And Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Acts 8:37
All the Bible tells us next is that "he baptized him". It doesn't give us exactly what Philip spoke. That is FAR from any measure of proof that he didn't baptize in Jesus' Name. And every other example in scripture of baptism uses the Name of Jesus Christ.

You must do a whole lot of ignoring scripture to arrive at the conclusion, and belief, that you have embraced. You are a follower of men, and have been taught by such - certainly NOT by God or His Word.

No one tells me what to believe, that I blindly follow.
I have a rule I live by.
Everything that is told to me pertaining to scriptures, is not proven until it can be confirmed with scripture.

The Bible itself is the best interpreter of itself.

No, you're a stubborn refuser of Truth. Your pride is on display and it is despicable before God.

You've been presented with scripture and you're deaf-earing it. You are prideful and can't hear plain wisdom. Your avatar pic proves that.

You exalt yourself, not God. Only YOU can be right. And if what you believe is shown to be contrary to scripture, you deny it because it threatens your pride.

Humble yourself before God and you will be shown the Truth of His Word. Until then, He will not even hear your prayers.

 

[Titus]

I worship with the True Church that is Sola Scriptura. Denomination means absolutely nothing if your doctrine is not in line with what the Bible teaches in its entirety. That means not making doctrine out of a single verse or passage in scripture with nothing elsewhere to support it.
The Bible is clear that God is speaking before all the angels of heaven when He makes that statement. You have been brainwashed, or otherwise chosen, to believe that because God uses a plural statement, it absolutely proves that God is 3 people. That is very, very naive.

The Bible supports no doctrine whatsoever of 3 Persons as God Almighty - neither does any human logic. They cannot be 3 persons and be one god. The trinity definition, itself, claims that they are 3 different people, but one god. That is preposterous by any spiritual or physical logic; and it is supported by zero scripture.
There is only one Name in heaven and earth by which we must be saved. ONE Name.
Acts 4:10-12
You are blind to the Truth. The entire interaction between Philip and the eunuch was about Jesus Christ.
"Then Philip opened his mouth, ... and preached unto him Jesus."
Acts 8:35
"And Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
Acts 8:37
All the Bible tells us next is that "he baptized him". It doesn't give us exactly what Philip spoke. That is FAR from any measure of proof that he didn't baptize in Jesus' Name. And every other example in scripture of baptism uses the Name of Jesus Christ.

You must do a whole lot of ignoring scripture to arrive at the conclusion, and belief, that you have embraced. You are a follower of men, and have been taught by such - certainly NOT by God or His Word.
No, you're a stubborn refuser of Truth. Your pride is on display and it is despicable before God.

You've been presented with scripture and you're deaf-earing it. You are prideful and can't hear plain wisdom. Your avatar pic proves that.

You exalt yourself, not God. Only YOU can be right. And if what you believe is shown to be contrary to scripture, you deny it because it threatens your pride.

Humble yourself before God and you will be shown the Truth of His Word. Until then, He will not even hear your prayers.

Its generally true that when a person debating another cannot give good sound evidence of their position they attack their opponents character as you have done with me.

My avatar proves I'm full of pride? Really? Give me book, chapter and verse to prove my avatar is proof of pride?
btw, I do not attack a persons character or their motives until I get to know them.
You Sir, do not know me from Adam.

The avatar I used is a pro shooter for team CZ.
It has nothing to do with me other than I like to shoot as a hobby.
Didn't know liking to watch shooting competitions makes one full of pride?
Do you also accuse others of this that are fans of bowling, pool, basketball, baseball, wrestling, football etc.?

I myself am in very poor health.
Used to be an avid outdoorsman.
Did alot of hiking, walking, bicycling.
But as my illness progressed I have had to give up all of my hobbies at this point in my life.
The only past time I can do to relax is shoot my guns on rare occasions.
Standing still requires little physical effort. So I have gravitated towards shooting.
If things were different for me, I would still be out in the woods hiking and biking. Those were my true passion before my health deterated to the point were now I'm in physical pain just standing on my feet for more than 15 minutes.

In 2010 I got down to 72 pounds. I'm 5'9.
Still to this day doctor's do not know what is causing my illness.

Thanks be to God I got TPN to save my life.
Now I live on only elemental formula, to keep me alive.
I've lost the ability to eat any solid food, it only makes me sick when I do so.

I've been struggling with health issues since I was 18. I'm now 45.
My life has been continuous suffering since I began this illness.
But I thank God for my infirmity because it brought me to repentance and taught me my complete dependence on God.
Even with all my trials I'm happy because of Jesus!
No one is content without having life that is near to God.
I'm content. If it be Gods will, then so be it!
If God blesses me in the future with better health, praise God!

God gives everyone who is faithful to Him what they need.
God is providing for me what I need to have a home with Him in heaven.

Now, I would appreciate an apology from you Sir?

If not, that shows your character. And I do not need to make any claims about it.

 

[GEN2REV]

Its generally true that when a person debating another cannot give good sound evidence of their position they attack their opponents character as you have done with me.

I did this with my first response. As I said, you deaf-eared it.

You Sir, do not know me from Adam.

You can tell plenty about somebody by what they write. Just as the Bible shows us about God.

Your continued overly defensive stance speaks volumes. You either know scripture or you don't.