Can you be saved if you don't believe in the diety of Christ?

[Titus]

I did this with my first response. As I said, you deaf-eared it.
You can tell plenty about somebody by what they write. Just as the Bible shows us about God.

Your continued overly defensive stance speaks volumes. You either know scripture or you don't.

I'm only hear because of love for others like yourself.
You are not my judge. If there were truth to your accusations I'd admit my faults.
I only want to be completely honest with myself with God and with others.
No good can come out of willfully deceiving oneself to intentionally cause self to be blind to your own bad character.

I regularly pray to God that I see who I truly am.

You have made very harmful accusations towards me as a person.
Now, I asked you to give evidence of how you can claim my avatar is proof I'm full of pride.
You made the accusations against me. Now give proof for your accusations?
Otherwise, you are just stating opinions.
Opinions dont prove anything.

 

[Titus]

Heres my first post to you.
You are accusing me of being full of pride because of this article.

Titus, post: 1267799, member: 16744"]Are they charismatic, penetcostal?


The God-head is ancient teaching not modern.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion.....

God refers to Himself as Us, Our image.

Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us,....

Jesus teaches in His commission to baptize in the name of who?
Matthew 28:19
All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus never even used Jesus as the name one is baptized into.
Jesus taught we are baptized into Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not teaching this is a spoken formula that is said during baptism.
By Jesus saying to baptize them in the name of... means by Gods authority.

Verse 18 says all authority has been given to Me. Jesus is teaching it is by Gods authority that we teach the gospel.
It is by Gods authority that we baptize in Jesus' gospel.

The baptism in Jesus' gospel does not require a spoken name to be said in order for the baptism to be according to Gods commandments.

Nowhere in Jesus' gospel is it commanded that the baptizer speak Jesus' name during the baptism.

Nothing wrong with the baptizer saying something similar to,
"I baptize you in the name of Jesus" or
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"

Also it would be acceptable to God if the one doing the baptizing said nothing, only did the physical act of immersing them in water.

Peter did not preach one must say "in the name of Jesus I baptize you" in Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter taught that the baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ. Meaning by His authority.
Peter did not teach that the baptizer must say this phrase, "I baptize you in the name of Jesus"

Jesus Himself taught to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Therefore Jesus does not require that the phrase "In Jesus' name I baptize you" be said.

The apostle Philip baptized the Ethiopian Eunch in Acts 8.
What did the baptizer Philip say?
He said nothing right before he baptized the eunch.

Acts 8:26-37-39
Then Philip said, if you believe with all your heart you may. And he(Ethiopian Eunch) answered and said,
"I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God".
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so the eunch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Philip never said Jesus' name by mouth when he baptized the eunch.
There is no commandment in the new testament that teaches we must say Jesus' name before one is baptized.

What is required is that the person being baptized understands that their baptism is the baptism commanded in Jesus' gospel. And this obedience to be baptized is by Jesus' authority.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus' baptism because it is commanded by Jesus in His gospel.

Where is the pride that you accuse me of?
Is stating my beliefs my position make me prideful? No.
If that were true.
Then everyone on here is full of pride.

 

[GEN2REV]

I'm only hear because of love for others like yourself.
You are not my judge. If there were truth to your accusations I'd admit my faults.
I only want to be completely honest with myself with God and with others.
No good can come out of willfully deceiving oneself to intentionally cause self to be blind to your own bad character.

I regularly pray to God that I see who I truly am.

You have made very harmful accusations towards me as a person.
Now, I asked you to give evidence of how you can claim my avatar is proof I'm full of pride.
You made the accusations against me. Now give proof for your accusations?
Otherwise, you are just stating opinions.
Opinions dont prove anything.

I don't do what men command me to do.

The only accusation made was that you are prideful and stubborn. I explained why and a perusal of your posts can suffice to make the case.

You were given scripture that 100% contradicts the doctrine you were pushing of the trinity, demanding that all new Christians must learn. There are countless OT verses straight from the mouth of God that claim His single divinity. You have addressed none of it which speaks to your lack of character and integrity.

Your comments carry zero weight with me.

 

[Titus]

I don't do what men command me to do.

The only accusation made was that you are prideful and stubborn. I explained why and a perusal of your posts can suffice to make the case.

You were given scripture that 100% contradicts the doctrine you were pushing of the trinity, demanding that all new Christians must learn. There are countless OT verses straight from the mouth of God that claim His single divinity. You have addressed none of it which speaks to your lack of character and integrity.

Your comments carry zero weight with me.

I'm waiting for scriptures as proof.
Were is your proof?

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG

John 17.17: "Thy word is truth".

The Bible is one source that can be trusted from my perspective. Though sure there are many different translations, those who desire to get to the truth, will be indeed lead to see the truth from the scripture.

I may disagree with stances such as God being a trinity 3 persons: God is a spirit not a person. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God not a person. The Word of God being with God at the beginning wasn’t a person, it was the Word of God who came down and born of the Virgin Mary in flesh named Jesus which gave him the defining characteristics of a person having feet’s and hands like us.

I might not believe what people say about eternal punishment on people, I might not believe people who believe souls are annihilated.

What I do believe is there is truth founded in scripture, and it is interesting to note…

Sometimes the disciples where afraid to ask Jesus about what he meant so they didn’t ask any more questions.

You as a believer now can question something Jesus had said why does it really mean (in context with use of scripture to support scripture) with prayer to the Father to help guide you by the Holy Spirit even though we may see through a glass darkly getting to the truth is something that is good to find out.

 

[Titus]

I don't give commands.
I'm asking you?
If you cannot, you're showing you have no evidence only opinions.

Here is sound evidence the Godhead is Biblical:

Mark 1:9-12
And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized of John in the jordan.
-10 And straightway coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opened and the Spirit like a dove descended upon Jesus.
-11 And there came a voice from heaven saying, Thou art My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
-12 And immediately the Spirit driveth Him into the wilderness.

Explain to me how Jesus who is on earth has God the Spirit and the Father coming down from heaven to Jesus who is on earth? How does the oneness doctrine explain Jesus being on earth baptized by John have Himself also being in heaven, coming down from heaven to earth?

You claimed it is illogical to believe in the God-head.
Now explain how this belief that Jesus is the Father and Son and Holy Spirit is logical?

 

[farouk]

The Bible is one source that can be trusted from my perspective. Though sure there are many different translations, those who desire to get to the truth, will be indeed lead to see the truth from the scripture.

I may disagree with stances such as God being a trinity 3 persons: God is a spirit not a person. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God not a person. The Word of God being with God at the beginning wasn’t a person, it was the Word of God who came down and born of the Virgin Mary in flesh named Jesus which gave him the defining characteristics of a person having feet’s and hands like us.

I might not believe what people say about eternal punishment on people, I might not believe people who believe souls are annihilated.

What I do believe is there is truth founded in scripture, and it is interesting to note…

Sometimes the disciples where afraid to ask Jesus about what he meant so they didn’t ask any more questions.

You as a believer now can question something Jesus had said why does it really mean (in context with use of scripture to support scripture) with prayer to the Father to help guide you by the Holy Spirit even though we may see through a glass darkly getting to the truth is something that is good to find out.

We do see the characteristics of personality with Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Scripture. Plenty of references.

 

[MatthewG]

@farouk

Yes, you know God has a heart/mind/will/emotion also being a consuming fire, and being Spirit. He has some special things going for him.

The Word of God also created all things, in expression of Gods heart/mind/will/emotion. The Word of God was also part of Gods consuming fire, being part of God in his expressiveness with the help of the Holy Spirit to have created all things.

Then God created us, like Him, to have a heart/mind/will/emotion in the fleshly nature when he decided to create Man.

 

[GEN2REV]

Now explain how this belief that Jesus is the Father and Son and Holy Spirit is logical?

I already showed you with John 14:21-23.

You are stubbornly, and childishly, refusing to address it.

Answer the question:
Can you be saved if you don't believe Jesus is God Almighty?

 

[MatthewG]

I already showed you with John 14:21-23.

You are stubbornly, and childishly, refusing to address it.

Answer the question:
Can you be saved if you don't believe Jesus is God Almighty?

Sure and many people have been. All they have is the firmament, and earth that shows Gods existence.

 

[MatthewG]

Not everyone is blessed enough with eyes to read I tell you now. Some hear and make their own decisions.

 

[GEN2REV]

Sure and many people have been. All they have is the firmament, and earth that shows Gods existence.

You forgot to answer as Titus. You stayed in your Matt G user.

Answer as Titus now.

 

[MatthewG]

I’m not here to battle people. Thank you.

 

[GEN2REV]

Not everyone is blessed enough with eyes to read I tell you now. Some hear and make their own decisions.

Yes, but only believers can hear Jesus' voice, Matt.

Only His sheep can hear His shout.

 

[GEN2REV]

I’m not here to battle people. Thank you.

Oh, on the contrary.

Your comments always devolve into personal debates where you take offense to others' opinions and point of view rather than simply providing relevant scripture and logical responses.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

saved from what?

I read a quote that said
" stop arguing with the saved; start preaching to the lost "

I think it's good advice tbh

bc lost ppl love to be preached at so much?

 

[GEN2REV]

Sure and many people have been. All they have is the firmament, and earth that shows Gods existence.

This is false according to Jesus Christ.

John 8:24

 

[MatthewG]

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

I discount sola scriptura, thank you @GEN2REV, the Holy Spirit is primary. The Bible is a manual and it should be read in conjecture with the Holy Spirit.


“And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law;”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-23‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Can you be saved if you don't believe in the trinity or the diety of Christ?

Yes.

There is no scriptural authority commanding belief in the man-made doctrine of the trinity. It seems most men would rather split hairs over the passive things in scripture instead of focusing on obedience to the things plainly commanded. Because the things that are plainly commanded are things that man hates doing. Most men love the trivial non scriptural concepts that are born out of presumption because they can elevate these vain things over the things that matter: like loving you’re enemies, allowing injuries by others, and so on…

The trinity is not taught in the Bible alone and must be assumed based on some passages here and there. If it were as necessary as some make it out to be there would be PLAIN scripture telling us how important it was; especially if it was crucial to one’s salvation.

And John 8:24 isn’t proof. This is great example: @Enoch111 would suggest a translation error to elevate the doctrine of the trinity.

 

[GEN2REV]

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Wow. Strong point.

I discount sola scriptura, thank you @GEN2REV, the Holy Spirit is primary. The Bible is a manual and it should be read in conjecture with the Holy Spirit.

I'd say that's clearly how you read it.