Who has the authority…

[theefaith]

This is what I call...here a bit, there a bit...

Can’t even answer a simple one like how we put in Christ by faith alone?

 

[Marymog]

Romans 10:15



1) "And how shall they preach?" (pos de keruksosin) "And how may they herald, preach, or proclaim." To preach in civilized societies some unit of that society, or a friendly society, must give an open door to the preacher to preach. His message must be delivered with permission granted by the civil government, 1Pe_2:13-15.

2) "Except they be sent?" (ean me apostalosin) "if they are not commissioned," sent with authority and a live-hood provided? Administrative and enlistment labors must be authorized. "By what authority doest thou these things?" is a proper question, Mar_11:28; Jesus sent the church, calls preachers, who then are sent by the church as missionaries, Mat_21:23; Mat_28:18-20; Joh_20:21; Act_1:8; Act_13:1-4; 2Co_5:18.

3) "As it is written," (kathaper gegraptai) "As it has been written," in harmony with the writing of Isa_52:7.

4) "How beautiful are the feet," (hos horaioi hoi podes) "How beautiful or desirable are the feet"; The idea is that of a runner, a courier, a news-bearer who brings good news - a message of help and hope and delivery.

5) "Of them that preach the gospel of peace," (ton evangeli zomenon) "Of those who herald the good news," of salvation and peace, thru faith in Jesus Christ. Note that the good news of the coming Messiah was even a matter of beauty in Old Testament days, as the same plan of salvation was preached then, as now, by true prophets, Isa_61:1-2; Luk_4:18-19; Gal_5:13.

6) "And bring glad tidings of good things!" (agatha) "And bring glad tidings of good things!" good things that accompany salvation such as peace, joy, love, hope, faith, etc., Act_26:16-18; 1Co_2:9; 1Co_3:8; 2Co_5:1; 2Ti_4:7-8; Rev_22:12. That a new body awaits every believer in the resurrection, and rewards done, based on deeds done and service rendered to the Lord in this life and in the church in particular, in this age is a message of good tidings, in life and in death, Eph_3:21.

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, 4 is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, 5 and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Etc...Etc...

Those are the people I am exposing. Those that are destroying the word of God.

Mary

 

[ScottA]

Thanks Scott. I don't feel you are "butting in". I appreciate everyone's opinion. You present an interesting theory.

How was there a 'breaking of succession of authority among men' when the Apostles LITERALLY replaced Judas (a man) with another man (Matthias)? And when the Apostles voted for a SUCCESION OF AUTHORITY AMONG MEN they referenced Scripture as their justification for SUCCESION OF AUTHORITY AMONG MEN (Acts 1:20). That is the first vs that destroys your theory.

Indeed, that poses no break in and of itself. But it was that which was named by Peter and Paul that that does cause a break. Once "false teachers" were in the mix, the spirit of God did not remain with them.

The 2nd vs that destroys your theory is that Scripture makes it clear that we are to Obey those who rule over us and be submissive to them (Hebrews 13). So Scott, did that only pertain to the NT Christians? Did they and only they have to abide by this instruction in Scripture? Is your theory that once the last Apostle died there was no longer an AUTHORITY OF MEN to be submissive too?

Obeying does not justify the actions of false teachers, prophets, or leaders...it only vindicates those under them.

As for the last apostle, an apostle is simply one sent...of which succession continues to all who receive Him--not partakers only, but those who He has also received.

The 3rd vs that destroys your theory is what Paul told Timothy, 'what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well. That passage literally says that the teaching AUTHORITY AMONG MEN will be passed down to "faithful people" who will then teach others? Or did that AUTHORITY AMONG MEN end at some point? Notice how it was PAUL who wrote that? So your theory that Paul was teaching that there is a 'breaking of succession of authority among men' is bizarre since it was Paul that taught that there is a SUCCESION OF AUTHORITY AMONG MEN!

I have several other verses AND Christian historical writings that destroy your theory...but I will leave it at that.

Mary

That only tells of Paul's good intentions, and even so, he foretold how it would not go according to his desire for them.

 

[Johann]

Can’t even answer a simple one like how we put in Christ by faith alone?

 

[Marymog]

Indeed, that poses no break in and of itself. But it was that which was named by Peter and Paul that that does cause a break. Once "false teachers" were in the mix, the spirit of God did not remain with them.....

Thanks Scott.

You said that "the spirit of God did not remain with THEM" (emphasis mine). Who is "them"?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

As for the last apostle, an apostle is simply one sent...of which succession continues to all who receive Him--not partakers only, but those who He has also received....

Ok....soooooo that makes no sense. I agree with you that an apostle (small 'a') is one who is sent. But I am asking you about the last Apostle (capital 'A', one of the 12). Is your theory that when the Apostle John died there was no longer an AUTHORITY OF MEN to be submissive too? And your theory that "succession continues to all who receive Him" makes no sense. That makes EVERY Christian a successor to the Apostles.

 

[Johann]

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, 4 is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, 5 and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

Etc...Etc...

Those are the people I am exposing. Those that are destroying the word of God.

Mary

Also...

Romans 16:17



1) "Now I beseech you all, brethren," (parakalo de humas, adelphoi) "Now I appeal to you all, brethren," call you alongside me for close council and fellowship.

2) "Mark them which cause divisions and offences," (skopein tous tas dichostasias kai ta skandola poiountas) "To watch those continually who cause or make divisions, parties, factions, and offences;" Wolves or jackals in sheep's clothes, Mat_7:15-20; 2Pe_2:1. These are occasions of stumbling, an hindrance to any church. The Gk. term "skopein" means "keep your eye on" this kind of person as one to be avoided.

3) "Contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned," (para ten didochen hen humeis emathete) "Contrary to or in conflict with the teaching which you all learned;" Act_20:29-30; 1Ti_1:19-20; 1Jn_2:19. Such conduct if not disapproved, dis-fellowshipped, will cause the church and the name of Christ to be blasphemed, scandalized, or spoken against in a derogatory, hurtful manner, Rom_14:13; Rom_14:16.

4) "And avoid them," (kai ekklinete ap' auton) "And turn away from them, avoid them, have no company or fellowship with them 2Jn_1:9-11; Gal_1:6-9; 1Ti_6:5; 2Th_3:6; 2Th_3:14. Withdraw from their company or dismiss them from your congregation or fellowship number, 1Co_5:13.


We all make mistakes, even in God's gospel, Genitive of Possession, no one can preach the good news unless they are sent, sealed with the Holy Spirit...Even the Holy Spirit said...Act_13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Are you familiar with the 13 epistles as well as the Torah?

 

[Marymog]

That only tells of Paul's good intentions, and even so, he foretold how it would not go according to his desire for them.

Your theory makes absoultly NO SENSE. Pauls "good intentions" was to teach Timothy the TRUTH and Pauls intention was to have Timothy teach other "faithful men" the TRUTH but Paul's intentions "did not go according to his desire for them"????????? Seriously?

The TRUTH was not passed down to other "faithful men" after Timothy got the Truth from Paul? Is that your theory???? The Truth was lost for all time after Timothy died?

 

[Johann]

Your theory makes absoultly NO SENSE. Pauls "good intentions" was to teach Timothy the TRUTH and Pauls intention was to have Timothy teach other "faithful men" the TRUTH but Paul's intentions "did not go according to his desire for them"????????? Seriously?

The TRUTH was not passed down to other "faithful men" after Timothy got the Truth from Paul? Is that your theory???? The Truth was lost for all time after Timothy died?

A question for you
Do you believe there are still apostles running around?

 

[Marymog]

A question for you
Do you believe there are still apostles running around?

According to Bruder’s Concordance the word apostle appears about eighty times and denotes often not all the disciples of the Lord, but some of them specially called.

So, yes, I believe there are "apostles running around"!

What do you believe Johann?

 

[Johann]

According to Bruder’s Concordance the word apostle appears about eighty times and denotes often not all the disciples of the Lord, but some of them specially called.

So, yes, I believe there are "apostles running around"!

What do you believe Johann?

Who are some of them specially called?

 

[Marymog]

Who are some of them specially called?

oops....you missed this question: What do you believe Johann?

I answered your question....Please don't dodge mine!

 

[Johann]

oops....you missed this question: What do you believe Johann?

I answered your question....Please don't dodge mine!

There are no modern apostles roaming around, they are not sent and have not the exousia from God nor a witness

 

[Marymog]

There are no modern apostles roaming around, they are not sent and have not the exousia from God nor a witness

Fascinating theory...

Scripture says So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Scripture says God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Where does Scripture say those appointments in the church ended OR will end? Or have you been taught that there was a point in Christian history it (authority) ended?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Who are some of them specially called?

The men of The Church are "them" that are "specially called". Just like Scripture says: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 

[Marymog]

There are no modern apostles roaming around, they are not sent and have not the exousia from God nor a witness

Who taught you this?

Curious Mary

 

[Johann]

Fascinating theory...

Scripture says So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Scripture says God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

Where does Scripture say those appointments in the church ended OR will end? Or have you been taught that there was a point in Christian history it (authority) ended?

Curious Mary

Please listen and learn

 

[ScottA]

Thanks Scott.

You said that "the spirit of God did not remain with THEM" (emphasis mine). Who is "them"?

Curious Mary

He would not remain with all who would take up the name of Christ and stand in the holy place, under the banner of the church.

 

[amigo de christo]

You have tried them who say they are apostles and are not and have found them liars .
This is what happened when i examined the apostolic lineage of the CC .
I found many leaders that had snuck in under the guise they were an apostle and yet
taught things contrary to the original apostles . I suggest folks get busy learning bibles
and then test those who do speak and teach .

 

[ScottA]

Ok....soooooo that makes no sense. I agree with you that an apostle (small 'a') is one who is sent. But I am asking you about the last Apostle (capital 'A', one of the 12). Is your theory that when the Apostle John died there was no longer an AUTHORITY OF MEN to be submissive too? And your theory that "succession continues to all who receive Him" makes no sense. That makes EVERY Christian a successor to the Apostles.

I expect that it does not make sense to those who have been taught differently and adopted the error of "A" for men chosen for being the least of men, that Christ alone would prove worth. By the same (non-sensical) logic, you might also give all the sons of David an "A."