Why Argue Against Doing the Law?
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
So what though? The law didn't make the 7th day holy. It's a holy day regardless of the law. Regardless of who God gave the law to. Regardless whether the Catholic Church abused, denigrated, ridiculed and burdened that day and murdered all Sabbath keepers, the 7th day is still, and always will be, holy. Regardless whether you 'rest in Christ', honor Sunday, Friday, or Wednesday, or every day, the 7th day is still the Sabbath and it is still holy. Sanctified. The Lord's day.
And nowhere, not even by suggestion or hint, does scripture remotely or I'm the slightest ever state that the holiness of the 7th had been removed. Nor does scripture in the slightest suggest that the very law which affirmed that holiness to Israel, only applied the observance of such to Israel. Nor does scripture suggest in any way shape or form that the very law which affirms the holiness of the 7th day, the very law that affirms the authority of the God Who established that 7th day to which for 6000 years the week has born witness, has been removed as the base minimal standard of righteousness for all human beings on the planet.
Just Jewish? The Sabbath was never Jewish. God didn't give the Sabbath to the Jews as if the Sabbath was a new development or new concept... The Sabbath had been there all along, just everybody as far as we know, had forgotten it. So God decided to remind the world that hey guys, there a day I wanna talk to you about. It's my day. It's been around for a long time, and it's as important and as essential to holy living as honoring your parents. It's as important and essential to holy living as loving your neighbor as yourself. And it's as important and as essential to holy living as loving Me. By honoring My day, you honor Me. This day is holy. I've blessed it. I've set it aside to be a day in which you will find Me. I gave it to mana long time ago, but man has forgotten. I'd like man to remember. I'd like man to be blessed. I'd like man to come and meet Me, recognize My authority and mine only, to recognize Me as God, to recognize Me as Lord, and to glorify Me.
KJV Jeremiah 9:24
24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD
KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it
KJV Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
.:.
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You know Backlit, I don't find the Law burdensome but it makes me wonder why people do. I don't have a burning desire to hit the cot with another mans woman; stealing doesn't interest me; going to war and killing is about as distasteful as putting broken glass up my backside....and so on. The only reason I can think of that would make it burdensome is if one has intentions of going contrary to it.
I then ask myself, are there really that many folk who claim to want to fall in line with God and his values while at the same time making a big insistent song and dance on having it or it being scrapped.....it seems so! In fact I think it so strange and contrary to common sense I get tired of listening to the yada yada about living in some higher reality while I hear them pulling other brothers down. I'm sure God must weep watching these confused bumpkins thrashing around, unaware of the self harm they inflict.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The whole scenario is illogical. The entire scriptures declare that the law is holy, just, and good. That the only ones who need to fear it are those who transgress it. And the only ones who have anything at all to gain by it's abrogation in this immediate existence, are those who are unwilling to obey it's Author. And as you so eloquently describe, the only ones attempting it's demise are not atheists, infidels, Islamists, the satanists, or those in secret societies or even the religious, all of whom are castigated for their behavior by the antinomians. No, it's professed Christians who as your so rightly state, consider themselves spiritually above and beyond those of a lesser estate who do seek to obey the laws dictates. Strange indeed are the deceptions and self delusions of men.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Well, they only are written on their hearts IF they have the Holy Spirit. And many professed Christians, who even believe in Christ and what He's done, do not have the Holy Spirit.
So, those Christians living by their conscience are making a mess of things.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
It is a mistake to ascribe motive to those who do not understand the claims of the law. How could we who don't even know our own hearts know theirs? Every person's case is different, even if only slightly. There are numerous reasons that people reject strict adherence to regulations.
I've seen unmistakable demonstration that there are some folks who actually do believe that meticulous detail in obedience can be nothing other than an effort to gain Heaven by personal merit. Others feel that trying to be perfectly obedient is just an obstinate habit that has been erroneously allowed to persist and pervade what they feel should be the liberating experience of the new birth. Others have been raised in a stiflingly strict environment, and the aim of their lives has been to reject and resist anything that resembles their childhood experience. This happens, most unfortunately, even in homes and schools where God's law is held in high regard.
There are many other factors or, at least, nuances of factors that cause people to resist any kind of regimentation but, hopefully, it will suffice to say that man looketh upon the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh upon the heart, and if we examine ourselves as God instructs (especially those who subscribe to the belief that the end times are the antitypical Yom Kippur or the age of Laodicea), we may find that our own motives for keeping the law of God might not be as virtuous or blameless as we take for granted.
I've been abundantly blessed by God in the sense that my conversion to the Decalogue-affirming faith of Seventh-day Adventism (which, admittedly, might be slightly off-topic) was in no way motivated by a reaction to another distasteful religious experience, nor was it entirely suited to the faith I held in my youth. There were a fairly equal amount of things that had to be retained and forsaken. So there was not a terribly traumatic adjustment to be made (for myself—my family is another story). The hardest part of my newfound theology was the experience of conversion itself and the implications and ramifications thereof. Which is another story, entirely.
But to assume that all who do not align with a certain viewpoint of faith and morals are motivated by the same reasoning is, at least to some degree, to engage in the genetic fallacy:
Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?
Sin is sin, and rebellion is rebellion, but Christ approached every member of the human family as though there was not another like him in the whole world—because there was not, and is not, today.
We are all sinners. It is not a matter of whether, but of what manner and to what extent, and what is being done to remedy the disease. A saint is just a recovering sinner. And we must all wash our garments white in the blood of the Lamb. There is no hope for those who will not.
The one deception I see in Christian discussion forums that pains me the most is the incessant insistence upon dividing and distinguishing the grace of God that sanctifies from that which justifies. It is, in my opinion, the scourge of Christendom. There is no variance between the change of heart that leads to the desire to be pronounced holy and that which leads to the desire to be made holy. I wish I could go back in time and speak with the theologian who first wrested this doubtful disputation from the testimony of Holy Writ.
But, no doubt, Scripture testifies that there must be also heresies among us, that they which are approved may be made manifest among us, praise God! This is why I can't understand all the anti-denomination sentiment among us, since heresy is also translated as "sect," which verily means "denomination."
But I'm starting to ramble now.
I've seen unmistakable demonstration that there are some folks who actually do believe that meticulous detail in obedience can be nothing other than an effort to gain Heaven by personal merit. Others feel that trying to be perfectly obedient is just an obstinate habit that has been erroneously allowed to persist and pervade what they feel should be the liberating experience of the new birth. Others have been raised in a stiflingly strict environment, and the aim of their lives has been to reject and resist anything that resembles their childhood experience. This happens, most unfortunately, even in homes and schools where God's law is held in high regard.
There are many other factors or, at least, nuances of factors that cause people to resist any kind of regimentation but, hopefully, it will suffice to say that man looketh upon the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh upon the heart, and if we examine ourselves as God instructs (especially those who subscribe to the belief that the end times are the antitypical Yom Kippur or the age of Laodicea), we may find that our own motives for keeping the law of God might not be as virtuous or blameless as we take for granted.
I've been abundantly blessed by God in the sense that my conversion to the Decalogue-affirming faith of Seventh-day Adventism (which, admittedly, might be slightly off-topic) was in no way motivated by a reaction to another distasteful religious experience, nor was it entirely suited to the faith I held in my youth. There were a fairly equal amount of things that had to be retained and forsaken. So there was not a terribly traumatic adjustment to be made (for myself—my family is another story). The hardest part of my newfound theology was the experience of conversion itself and the implications and ramifications thereof. Which is another story, entirely.
But to assume that all who do not align with a certain viewpoint of faith and morals are motivated by the same reasoning is, at least to some degree, to engage in the genetic fallacy:
Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?
Sin is sin, and rebellion is rebellion, but Christ approached every member of the human family as though there was not another like him in the whole world—because there was not, and is not, today.
We are all sinners. It is not a matter of whether, but of what manner and to what extent, and what is being done to remedy the disease. A saint is just a recovering sinner. And we must all wash our garments white in the blood of the Lamb. There is no hope for those who will not.
The one deception I see in Christian discussion forums that pains me the most is the incessant insistence upon dividing and distinguishing the grace of God that sanctifies from that which justifies. It is, in my opinion, the scourge of Christendom. There is no variance between the change of heart that leads to the desire to be pronounced holy and that which leads to the desire to be made holy. I wish I could go back in time and speak with the theologian who first wrested this doubtful disputation from the testimony of Holy Writ.
But, no doubt, Scripture testifies that there must be also heresies among us, that they which are approved may be made manifest among us, praise God! This is why I can't understand all the anti-denomination sentiment among us, since heresy is also translated as "sect," which verily means "denomination."
But I'm starting to ramble now.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Let us bring up abraham .
He is known as having good faith .
Are we truly the children of Abraham . Remember what JESUS told even the unbelieving jews
IF you were TRULY OF Abraham you would do the works of Abraham .
Abraham had REAL GEUNINE FAITH , A REAL BELIEF .
Not a belief like the devils have . SEE they too KNOW HE IS THE CHRIST but they aint saved .
SO lets examine this faith of abraham , this belief that abraham Had .
GOD SAID DO , ABRAHAM DID .
Beleive it or not , we cannot seperate LOVE from obediance
WE cannot seperate faith from being DOERS .
IF YE LOVE ME YE WOULD KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS . LET US LEARN THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE VERY , VERY WELL
and learn What those apostles had to write as well . LEARN IT ALL . FOR i fear for many in these last days .
He is known as having good faith .
Are we truly the children of Abraham . Remember what JESUS told even the unbelieving jews
IF you were TRULY OF Abraham you would do the works of Abraham .
Abraham had REAL GEUNINE FAITH , A REAL BELIEF .
Not a belief like the devils have . SEE they too KNOW HE IS THE CHRIST but they aint saved .
SO lets examine this faith of abraham , this belief that abraham Had .
GOD SAID DO , ABRAHAM DID .
Beleive it or not , we cannot seperate LOVE from obediance
WE cannot seperate faith from being DOERS .
IF YE LOVE ME YE WOULD KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS . LET US LEARN THE JESUS OF THE BIBLE VERY , VERY WELL
and learn What those apostles had to write as well . LEARN IT ALL . FOR i fear for many in these last days .
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Cain murdered Abel, but was not put to death. In fact, he was given a mark somewhere on him so that everyone would know he was not to be killed. The law didn't exist except for a few commands that God spoke.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, God hallowed it, but do you know why? The WHY is what is important, not the day of the week. If you are fixated on the letter, you won't see God in it. It is WHO it represented, like all the other holy convocations of Leviticus 23, the Sabbath being the first.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Just so you and @BarnyFife know, I believe the Seventh-day Adventist denomination and Word of Faith denomination have more true Christians in them than any other. And both get more flack than any other too. LOL But both of you are fixated on one untruth, but a minor one. Yours is a physical day of the week, and WoF is physical prosperity, just the physical which will wither and die. But you do do the spiritual, but you fail to recognize the spiritual over the physical by believing you must stay under the letter of the law and keep the physical. That's up to you, and doesn't matter to me or to God. And you both have the most important thing right. Neither of you are soft on sin. That is the false doctrine subject where most other denominations are lax. And they believe they are saved even when they sin. Instead you both keep yourselves pure. 1 John 3:3; 1 John 5:18 Therefore, your physical beliefs are minor, and God will honor them, because you do and have faith in what you believe. And both of your major beliefs are right on and what saves us. Be holy for I am holy.
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Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I think the how is more intriguing than the why. What makes things holy? How do they become holy? From the artifacts in the temple, to the temple itself... From the Sabbath to people. What makes them holy?
God's presence. That's why the Sabbath, the physical literal Sabbath, is so beautiful. God's literal presence is in it. Just as He's in us, His presence making us holy. Keeping it holy means cherishing His presence in the day as we meet with Him to worship and honor Him.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
That said... Why? That's easy. "KJV Exodus 25:8
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them."
And He made a day in order to do the same.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Some Christians are confused and so hung up on the Law, one would think they are Jews.
Rom. 2:13 is clearly speaking about the Jews, and then reiterated in verses 17-19
Gentiles were not given the Law - verse 14 confirms it.
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.17Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,"
We are under the law of love, written on our hearts, the two commandments that Jesus gave, that our conscience dictates and the Holy Spirit guides and teaches us to abide in. We possess (keep) these commandments to love, though we may fail at times, we are purified, forgiven, saved and sealed - not by works, by grace through faith.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
But it was only once a week. NOW He abides inside of us. That is the biggest difference between the Old and the New. The Lord of the Sabbath can now be inside of us, and we never sin. We don't need a commandment to not murder because the Lord of the Sabbath inside of us loves, and doesn't hate, the true source of murder. It is not a day, it is a Life.
BTW, WE are His sanctuary. Everything in the OT was a foreshadowing of the NT
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them." He is dwelling within me. And you. But you still don't know that.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You think God was absent from His people on days other than the Sabbath? That He reserved His blessings to Israel for the Sabbath only? Surely you know better than that. The Sabbath is a day set over and above the other days. The rest of the week is still good. But the Sabbath is very good. We can know the presence of the lord at any time. But the Sabbath holds an explicit promise of blessing that only those who regularly honor the Sabbath can know.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, God was always there for them, but I'm talking about them being there for God! That was just once a week. I wish you would go back and read the rest of my post which was the important part. You stopped after the first sentence! It is like you have a veil over your head as in 2 Cor. 3
Believe me if you want to know about blessings. Try abiding in Jesus, and especially He abiding in you! And it isn't once a week either!
All I ask is you become born again and abide in Jesus and let Him abide in you. Then if you want to add keeping the Sabbath day, fine. But first things first. You still need the Lord of the Sabbath indwelling you.
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@1stCenturyLady Romans 8.9 says that 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His'.
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