Fallen Angel's Seed

[Truman]

Err...my friend and I were kidnapped by a fallen angel once!

 

[GEN2REV]

which you are convinced is a place?

I'm convinced it's a spiritual dimension where corruptible flesh and blood cannot exist; per Scripture.

why take so definitive a position on a matter that rabbis fluent in the language were arguing about 2000 years ago? How could the truth even be heard now?

My opinion is based on Scripture as a whole.

"You dont read the Bible; the Bible reads you"

Ok.

And if you read it often enough, mixed with faith, it purifies/sanctifies you and fills you with the Truth.

Who said that quote?

 

[TLHKAJ]

I’m not sure our drawings of angels is not our taking something meant to be allegorical and drawing it. For example
Revelation 1:13-18 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. [14] His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; [15] And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. [16] And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. [17] And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: [18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

How do you draw or illustrate one like the son of man clothed in a garment to his feet, girt about the paps with a golden girdle, hairs like wool, eyes flaming fire, feet brass like they were burned in a furnace?

Those verses aren't talking about an angel.

What do imaginations and drawings of angels have to do with what we've been discussing?

 

[David in NJ]

which you are convinced is a place?

why take so definitive a position on a matter that rabbis fluent in the language were arguing about 2000 years ago? How could the truth even be heard now?

"You dont read the Bible; the Bible reads you"

YEP, those trusty Hebrew scholars and rabbis that had far superior grammatical/language intellect of the written text then you or me couldn't SEE the Messiah right in front of their faces.

Whatever you do be careful of this ONE who said:
"But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."
John 5:38-40

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm convinced it's a spiritual dimension where corruptible flesh and blood cannot exist; per Scripture

man, i love that verse, so…deceptive, and yet truthful. I wish i could…well, may i suggest that a “turn of phrase” is being employed there, and that that v will morph on you, when you let it
simply put, your spirit is ensconced in a body of corruptible flesh, as long as it is called today
ya that helped lol

My opinion is based on Scripture as a whole

then may i suggest that when you lose your opinion, room might be found for the truth there? Which i dont know what that is, but i have noticed some…traps? installed in the NT, too, and these are installed, i suspect, that people may be revealed

Who said that quote?

near as i can tell, me, although i srsly doubt that tbh

 

[TLHKAJ]

man, i love that verse, so…deceptive, and yet truthful. I wish i could…well, may i suggest that a “turn of phrase” is being employed there, and that that v will morph on you, when you let it

then may i suggest that when you lose your opinion, room might be found for the truth there? Which i dont know what that is, but i have noticed some…traps? installed in the NT, too, and these are installed, i suspect, that people may be revealed

near as i can tell, me, although i srsly doubt that tbh

I take it that you don't believe the whole Bible is the truth?

 

[bbyrd009]

why take so definitive a position on a matter that rabbis fluent in the language were arguing about 2000 years ago?

YEP, those trusty Hebrew scholars and rabbis that had far superior grammatical/language intellect of the written text then you or me couldn't SEE the Messiah right in front of their faces

this is the right context for that, yes?
even assuming that i will gotta marinate, since i guess it is (nominally) rabbis who initially wrote the passage, although im getting that you meant the rabbis “arguing” which they really dont do anyway, like we do, they debate, with respect
believes all things
well, for the most part anyway, surely exceptions
but fwiw may i suggest the fact that they debated—or for that matter any spiritual debate that does not seem to have a definitive answer, except the ones that people provide for themselves and adhere to, to the point of um exclusion lets say—is given for a sign maybe

 

[TLHKAJ]

Err...my friend and I were kidnapped by a fallen angel once!

I believe you. They are responsible for all "UFO" abductions, in one way or another ....even if (in some cases) the culprits are human (US government/military), they are using fallen angel technologies.

 

[farouk]

I take it that you don't believe the whole Bible is the truth?

Good question and relevant....

 

[bbyrd009]

I take it that you don't believe the whole Bible is the truth?

um, bc i said “deceptive?” anyway no, that is not what i meant, i am convinced that the Bible is of a singular caliber of truth, and also that It will lie like a rug to one if they let It.

Phrases are intentionally worded imo so that they might be misinterpreted, 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil comes to mind, and Paul is the apparent master of that i guess, hence the Scriptural warning about him, but im pretty sure the literary device is used elsewhere too.

Heck, most believers are convinced that the Bible is telling them that Jesus is returning, right?
Who am i to suggest otherwise

 

[David in NJ]

this is the right context for that, yes?
even assuming that i will gotta marinate, since i guess it is (nominally) rabbis who initially wrote the passage, although im getting that you meant the rabbis “arguing” which they really dont do anyway, like we do, they debate, with respect
believes all things
well, for the most part anyway, surely exceptions
but fwiw may i suggest the fact that they debated—or for that matter any spiritual debate that does not seem to have a definitive answer, except the ones that people provide for themselves and adhere to, to the point of um exclusion lets say—is given for a sign maybe

Let's go with "it is written" so that we can all be on the same Foundation.

Example: let's look at "rabbis arguing" and SEE where it goes = from Scripture

A.) Once again, Jesus(Rabbi) spoke to the people and said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.” So the Pharisees(rabbis) said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not valid.” 14Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e 17Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f 18I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.” 19“Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

B.) As Jesus(Rabbi) spoke these things, many believed in Him. 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33“We are Abraham’s descendants,” they answered. “We have never been slaves to anyone. How can You say we will be set free?” 34Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you(rabbis) are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you. 38I speak of what I have seen in the presence of the Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”

C.) “We(rabbis) are not illegitimate children,” they declared. “Our only Father is God Himself.” 42Jesus(Rabbi) said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.

D.) Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”
58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham, I AM!”
59At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area.

 

[Davy]

33“We are Abraham’s descendants,” they answered. “We have never been slaves to anyone. How can You say we will be set free?”

That part in the Pharisee's statement in bold proves they were not 'literally' of the seed of Israel, but were foreigners, the crept in unawares of Jude. How so? Because the children of Israel WERE in bondage at one time, in Egypt.

 

[David in NJ]

That part in the Pharisee's statement in bold proves they were not 'literally' of the seed of Israel, but were foreigners, the crept in unawares of Jude. How so? Because the children of Israel WERE in bondage at one time, in Egypt.

Thank you for your input.
However, they were in fact, the literal seed of Israel for the LORD Himself said they were:

They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, = the LORD Jesus never denied their lineage from Abraham.
John 8:33-37

 

[Davy]

Thank you for your input.
However, they were in fact, the literal seed of Israel for the LORD Himself said they were:

They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
37“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, = the LORD Jesus never denied their lineage from Abraham.
John 8:33-37

Abraham had OTHER SEED than just Isaac, of whom Jacob was born, with Jacob's sons becoming the children of Israel.

Don't you remember Abraham's OTHER SEED?

 

[David in NJ]

Abraham had OTHER SEED than just Isaac, of whom Jacob was born, with Jacob's sons becoming the children of Israel.

Don't you remember Abraham's OTHER SEED?

Yes, from Ishmael. These were not the seed of Ishmael who were speaking to the LORD. There may of been some in the mix.

 

[David in NJ]

Abraham had OTHER SEED than just Isaac, of whom Jacob was born, with Jacob's sons becoming the children of Israel.

Don't you remember Abraham's OTHER SEED?

The issue that the LORD was emphasizing was Bondage to SIN.

 

[Davy]

Yes, from Ishmael. These were not the seed of Ishmael who were speaking to the LORD. There may of been some in the mix.

Then you are deceived, because the seed of Ishmael have never been in bondage like the children of Israel had.

 

[Davy]

The issue that the LORD was emphasizing was Bondage to SIN.

The issue in John 8 by Lord Jesus was a POINTING to the "tares" of the parable of the tares of the field! Not only did He point to the children of Ishmael, born of Abraham, but also to CAIN, the first murderer. Thus Jesus was spot-lighting the spiritual seed of the devil, and that is why He called their father the devil.

So is that just about sin only? Goodness no! Because even God's chosen have sinned.

It is about the subject of the "tares" of Matthew 13, those that Jesus said the devil sowed. It is about the crept in unawares of Jude, where we are told that God 'ordained' certain men for this world to work against Him and His Son. That means God ASSIGNED those to work AGAINST His Plan of Salvation, they make up the NEGATIVE side of His Plan for this world. If you understand Isaiah 10 that God often uses the "Assyrian" as a type for Satan, in that Isaiah 10 chapter God is showing that He uses Satan as a punishing rod upon the wicked and rebellious. And that reveals that God is in total control, but allows... Satan and his children to work the negative side, otherwise Lord Jesus would never have been sacrificed upon the cross for us, etc.! So one must think more in-depth with God's written Word instead of just making up doctrines of men.

 

[David in NJ]

Then you are deceived, because the seed of Ishmael have never been in bondage like the children of Israel had.

You need to study Scripture - Start in chapter 1 of Gospel of John.
FYI = only the LORD was speaking 100% Truth. Not those who were seeking to kill him.
You made the error of believing the wrong crowd.

 

[David in NJ]

The issue in John 8 by Lord Jesus was a POINTING to the "tares" of the parable of the tares of the field! Not only did He point to the children of Ishmael, born of Abraham, but also to CAIN, the first murderer. Thus Jesus was spot-lighting the spiritual seed of the devil, and that is why He called their father the devil.

So is that just about sin only? Goodness no! Because even God's chosen have sinned.

It is about the subject of the "tares" of Matthew 13, those that Jesus said the devil sowed. It is about the crept in unawares of Jude, where we are told that God 'ordained' certain men for this world to work against Him and His Son. That means God ASSIGNED those to work AGAINST His Plan of Salvation, they make up the NEGATIVE side of His Plan for this world. If you understand Isaiah 10 that God often uses the "Assyrian" as a type for Satan, in that Isaiah 10 chapter God is showing that He uses Satan as a punishing rod upon the wicked and rebellious. And that reveals that God is in total control, but allows... Satan and his children to work the negative side, otherwise Lord Jesus would never have been sacrificed upon the cross for us, etc.! So one must think more in-depth with God's written Word instead of just making up doctrines of men.

100% FALSE

You are arguing with the LORD and "it is written" AND mismatching Scripture that does not apply to John 8.

Start in chapter 1 of John and SEEK the TRUTH

FYI - the tares come from every tribe tongue and nation including the Jews from Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.