Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
nothing should keep us from being friends.. We can agree to disagree
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
“Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” (Romans 14:19)
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Yet, you have not shown me how I have taken these verses out of context by pointing such said context out, friend.
This is merely your own stated opinion based on no evidence to support your claims.
You said:
The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is all about God’s grace (In our Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation).
The gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day according to the Scriptures. The gospel is one key component in being saved by God's grace.
In being saved by God’s grace… it can also include seeking forgiveness of one’s sins with the Lord Jesus. But if a person is looking to justify sin, and they desire to sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Jesus, they really are not sorry over their sins and or seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord in the correct way. They want to serve two masters and they don’t want to be broken before God by His mercy and grace. The gospel is trusting what Christ did for us so as to be cleansed of sin. If we still live unto sin, we are not honoring His sacrifice, His burial, and resurrection.
Anyways, when we look at the word “gospel” in the Bible (Note: I like to use BlueLetterBible for doing keyword searches like this), it can lead a person to think it has a wide variety of meanings. At this point in my life, I hold to the view that the gospel is only 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (even though other verses appear to paint a different picture). I see believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as one key component of being saved by God's grace (in our Initial Salvation and it is Foundational Belief we continue to hold on to).
I have provided an explanation on the verses (that use the word “gospel”) that appear to teach a different gospel than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 here, here, and here. I am currently convinced the one and only gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
In other words, I don't believe in a works based gospel because I believe the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
But when we take a step back and we look at the bigger picture of God's plan of salvation, I see...
The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is just one component of being saved by God's grace in our Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation. In regards to man's responsibility: I see God's plan of salvation in two aspects.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Jesus never said whoever is not baptized will be condemned, but He did say whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18). So I DO believe in Jesus as the ALL- SUFFICIENT means of my salvation. You believe in your baptism for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
A statement of faith about my view of the Old Law in my signature is not an endless back and forth argument with one who believes they are under the Old Law. But you can believe however you like. I just don't live in your universe or see it the way you do on this point. Strive means to fight vigorously. I am not fighting in a vigorous way by having a statement of faith in my signature.
You said:
I believe 1 John 5:3 and I have quoted it many times (and others like it) to sin and still be saved believers. I just believe that the commandments we keep so as to love God are the ones that come from Jesus and His followers in the pages of the New Testament, and that the Old Covenant or contract has passed away.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yet, you have not shown me how I have taken these verses out of context by pointing such said context out, friend.
This is merely your own stated opinion based on no evidence to support your claims.
The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is all about God’s grace (In our Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation).
The gospel is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day according to the Scriptures. The gospel is one key component in being saved by God's grace.
In being saved by God’s grace… it can also include seeking forgiveness of one’s sins with the Lord Jesus. But if a person is looking to justify sin, and they desire to sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Jesus, they really are not sorry over their sins and or seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord in the correct way. They want to serve two masters and they don’t want to be broken before God by His mercy and grace. The gospel is trusting what Christ did for us so as to be cleansed of sin. If we still live unto sin, we are not honoring His sacrifice, His burial, and resurrection.
Anyways, when we look at the word “gospel” in the Bible (Note: I like to use BlueLetterBible for doing keyword searches like this), it can lead a person to think it has a wide variety of meanings. At this point in my life, I hold to the view that the gospel is only 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (even though other verses appear to paint a different picture). I see believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as one key component of being saved by God's grace (in our Initial Salvation and it is Foundational Belief we continue to hold on to).
I have provided an explanation on the verses (that use the word “gospel”) that appear to teach a different gospel than 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 here, here, and here. I am currently convinced the one and only gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
In other words, I don't believe in a works based gospel because I believe the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
But when we take a step back and we look at the bigger picture of God's plan of salvation, I see...
The gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is just one component of being saved by God's grace in our Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation. In regards to man's responsibility: I see God's plan of salvation in two aspects.
I WAS SAVED
YOU MIGHT BE SAVED
I WAS SAVED BY GRACE
YOU ARE TRYING TO BE SAVED BY WORKS
I WAS SAVED BY GOD
YOUR TRYING TO SAVE YOURSELF
Huge difference between us two
When I see God. I am going to fall on my face.. And when he asked why I deserve heaven, I am going to say I do not.. Only by your mercy.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I already explained these verses to you using the context of the Bible, and they don't mean what you think they do.
Eternal life is Jesus Christ, and you have to abide in Him to have eternal life.
In order to have the assurance that you know for sure you abide in Christ you have to find that you are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). If a person says they know the Lord and yet they don't keep His commandments they are a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Let's say there is an energy source that is forever and it is said to never burn out or fizzle. You can access this new energy source via by plugging your appliances into your outlets in your home. So if you decide to plug in, you have this forever energy. Jesus is like this in the sense that you have eternal life only if you abide or plug into Him. You cannot have eternal life without Jesus. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).
Eternal life is never said to be an external thing that Jesus gifts to a person outside Himself. Eternal life is Jesus Himself.
Wrong I believe in Jesus and His gospel.
You reject His gospel and expect Him to save you based on faith and no obedience.
Danthemailman be honest with the scriptures,
Did Jesus say,
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved?
Yes, that's exactly what He preached.
You would have to have something really wrong with you to not understand Jesus includes baptism to be saved.
Be honest are you not saying,
He that believes only and does not obey the commandment to be baptized shall be saved.
You already know there are commandments to be saved, that must be obeyed, 1John 3:23-24.
You cannot tell Jesus no I do not need to be baptized.
The gospel teaches baptism in order to be saved,
Acts 2:38-39.
When do we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit Dan?
Before baptism and repentance or after? Read Acts 2:38-39.
Only way to get in Christ is by baptism,
Galatians 3:26-27.
You do not get in Christ by faith alone.
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
So was I. I was first saved by God's grace in 1992.
I sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ via by a mini Christian comic book tract called,
“This Was Your Life.”
This aligns with Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8-9.
I was saved in my Initial Salvation by God's grace without works (Which is the 1st aspect of salvation).
You said:
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:10).
You said:
A person can be saved from a raging lion in the past.
But that does not mean they cannot get eaten by one in the future.
Actually, I believe I am saved foundationally by the gospel, and God's grace, and that the good works I do in my life is the working of God in me. He does the work and so He gets all the praise and glory. Yes, it is synergistic. Yes, I have free will. I have to cooperate with GOD in the good work He wants to do through me. But I don't seek to look in a mirror in public and scream to others of how good I look as I bench press heavy weights to impress people. No, no. Most certainly not. The Lord gets all the glory and praise. For without Him, I can do nothing (John 15:5).
You said:
The Bible talks about salvation in different tenses and not just in the past tense. Try looking at the Bible again to find them, my friend.
You said:
Acts of the Apostles 2:40
“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
For is it wrong for your rescuer to tell you to grab on to the rope and hold on as you pulls you off a cliff?
Is it wrong for you to swim as sharks are circling to a safety ring buoy so that the coast guard can pull you in and onto the boat to safety? Maybe that's wrong in your eyes, but to normal people, it's not wrong.
Right. No offense, but I don't believe in OSAS that justifies sin or darkness.
You said:
Where in the Bible does it talk about this? Granted, I am not denying we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace. We most certainly are. But the version of grace in OSAS is not the same grace in the Bible because you cannot lose salvation via by sin with OSAS. OSAS folk like yourself like to quote 1 John 1:8, and Isaiah 64:6 out of context to justify that one will always be a slave to sin this side of Heaven (When the Bible does not teach that - See: 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etcetera).
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 5:9
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
Any obedience to Jesus' gospel is a work.
1John 3:23-24, work of righteousness
Acts 17:30 work of righteousness.
God only accepts those who work righteousness,
Acts 10:35.
Those works of righteousness are keeping Gods commandments,
Psalm 119:172
To be in Christ is the only place for salvation,
In Christ is where all the spiritual blessings are,
Ephesians 1:1
No one gets into Christ without obeying Him,
There is no salvation unless we believe and obey,
Galatians 3:26-27
1John 3:23-24, work of righteousness
Acts 17:30 work of righteousness.
God only accepts those who work righteousness,
Acts 10:35.
Those works of righteousness are keeping Gods commandments,
Psalm 119:172
To be in Christ is the only place for salvation,
In Christ is where all the spiritual blessings are,
Ephesians 1:1
No one gets into Christ without obeying Him,
There is no salvation unless we believe and obey,
Galatians 3:26-27
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
First saved?
your either saved or your not saved..
there is no initial or partial salvation.
Grace is unmerited favor. [quote[
I sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ via by a mini Christian comic book tract called,
“This Was Your Life.”
This aligns with Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8-9.
I was saved in my Initial Salvation by God's grace without works (Which is the 1st aspect of salvation).
Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:10).
A person can be saved from a raging lion in the past.
But that does not mean they cannot get eaten by one in the future.
Actually, I believe I am saved foundationally by the gospel, and God's grace, and that the good works I do in my life is the working of God in me. He does the work and so He gets all the praise and glory. Yes, it is synergistic. Yes, I have free will. I have to cooperate with GOD in the good work He wants to do through me. But I don't seek to look in a mirror in public and scream to others of how good I look as I bench press heavy weights to impress people. No, no. Most certainly not. The Lord gets all the glory and praise. For without Him, I can do nothing (John 15:5).
The Bible talks about salvation in different tenses and not just in the past tense. Try looking at the Bible again to find them, my friend.
Acts of the Apostles 2:40
“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
For is it wrong for your rescuer to tell you to grab on to the rope and hold on as you pulls you off a cliff?
Is it wrong for you to swim as sharks are circling to a safety ring buoy so that the coast guard can pull you in and onto the boat to safety? Maybe that's wrong in your eyes, but to normal people, it's not wrong.
Right. No offense, but I don't believe in OSAS that justifies sin or darkness.
Where in the Bible does it talk about this? Granted, I am not denying we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace. We most certainly are. But the version of grace in OSAS is not the same grace in the Bible because you cannot lose salvation via by sin with OSAS. OSAS folk like yourself like to quote 1 John 1:8, and Isaiah 64:6 out of context to justify that one will always be a slave to sin this side of Heaven (When the Bible does not teach that - See: 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etcetera).[/QUOTE]
Paul calls you a fool. Having begun in the spirit your now trying to perfect in the flesh.
Why would you reject eternal life. and the power of God to complete what he started.
Get out of his way and let him save you.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yep
I obeyed him 40 years ago. By being like the tax collector not like the pharisee.
You appear to have yet to obey him
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Thats works, not grace
why would you reject grace and try to save yourself?
Why do you think you CAN save yourself??
There is some very large errors in Bible Highlighters plan of salvation.
Notice, He teaches we are saved then later sanctified.
It is impossible to not be sanctified when God saves you,
Sanctification is instantaneous with our sins being washed away,
1Corinthians 6:11
To be sanctified means, to be made holy.
Can one be Holy still dead in their sins?
No
Who can be Holy?
Only those who have had their sins washed away.
You are washed by the blood of Christ the moment you are saved.
You are then sanctified, made holy by God.
Sanctification is at the moment God saves you.
If it came later, then you are still in your sins. Still unholy
Notice, He teaches we are saved then later sanctified.
It is impossible to not be sanctified when God saves you,
Sanctification is instantaneous with our sins being washed away,
1Corinthians 6:11
To be sanctified means, to be made holy.
Can one be Holy still dead in their sins?
No
Who can be Holy?
Only those who have had their sins washed away.
You are washed by the blood of Christ the moment you are saved.
You are then sanctified, made holy by God.
Sanctification is at the moment God saves you.
If it came later, then you are still in your sins. Still unholy
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
One is not obeying Jesus if they are not doing all of what He commands. So it's not referring to just a partial obedience here. It doesn't say that. If you obeyed God once, and yet you are not obeying Him now, you are not in line with the truth of Hebrews 5:9.
For in order for your belief to be true on Hebrews 5:9, it would have to make clear that this was a one time obedience in your accepting the Lord and that any future obedience is not necessary.
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful said:
Bible Highlighter said:
But your initial question made it appear like you were being critical in being saved by being obedient and yet Scripture says this very thing in Hebrews 5:9. In other words, it did not appear like you were aware of the truth of this verse by your initial question.
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