The only thing needed to know about once saved only saved is that it is in the name Jesus.
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Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Allow me to put it in this manner for you, it is said we are bought and purchased by Christ in the scriptures yes? do you know what that means? it means we are not our own we no longer have ownership over our own salvation the deed lies in his hands not ours we cannot take the deed from the owner or we are thieves and one thing we are not called in scripture is thieves once we are saved. so how can we lose the deed of our salvation when firstly we do not own the deed and secondly it is not in our own hands to begin with?
Yes, there IS a Condition” .....you have to ASK.....”Anybody that ASKS to be Saved , WILL be Saved”
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
What if God says to you, "I see no evidence in the long life you lived that your faith was in nothing but the blood, so off to the lake of fire you go."
Justification most certainly is by faith apart from works. But our lives show whether or not we are really justified by faith apart from works. No change shows their is no faith in the blood to solicit the presence of the life changing Holy Spirit in one's life. That is what the church needs to hear in this end time.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Then why are there fake believers? You're leaving something out. (And it's not works, so don't bother going there. We agree that justification is not a reward of work, but rather a reward of faith.)
" 9 ...if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
So how does one know for sure that they have asked, believing? Confession does not automatically equate to faith. For as I'm pointing out, if that were true there would be no such thing as fake believers. So how does one know for sure their confession of Christ has resulted in salvation?
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Back on topic - IF you wish the answer to "water Confusion," please
visit here: "Main Divider" of christians!
and here: 13 Bible baptisms - op topic: once saved, always saved?:
Yes, According To All The Scriptures compiled:
here: God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In Christ!
and here: God's ETERNAL Assurance Of Salvation!
Precious friends, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged and Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
visit here: "Main Divider" of christians!
and here: 13 Bible baptisms - op topic: once saved, always saved?:
Yes, According To All The Scriptures compiled:
here: God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In Christ!
and here: God's ETERNAL Assurance Of Salvation!
Precious friends, Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged and Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!
GRACE And Peace...
Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
I held to three positions on 1 Peter 3:21 over the years (None of which involved salvation).
#1. My first position on 1 Peter 3:21 is that the water baptism that Peter talked about was a desired action for New Covenant Christians to partake in (Which was a symbolic picture of Christ’s death and resurrection and it was done as an answer of showing publicly to others that you already have a good and clean conscience towards God), even though this action or practice was not a salvation issue. I was growing in the things of God without being water baptized for many years. But one day I did decide to get water baptized in 2013 but I did not do it for my salvation. My born again experience happened many years long before my water baptism. I had received a love, joy, peace that I had never known before and wanted others to feel the same when I accepted Christ as my Savior back in 1992. Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that baptism does not save us in putting away the filth of the flesh. I believe the word filth here is in reference to a similar word use that is used in 2 Corinthians 7:1 (filthiness which is in reference to sin in this verse). Meaning, Peter is saying that baptism does not save us in reference to putting a way sin. So it’s not a salvation issue. For the interpretation that Peter was correcting others that water baptism was removal of dirt from the body did not make any sense or hold water with me.
#2. My second position on 1 Peter 3:21 is my current primary position. This viewpoint on this verse is in light of knowing the truth that Spirit baptism (being born again spiritually when you receive Jesus Christ) is the one and only baptism mentioned in Ephesians 4:5. Before I came to understanding this position: I remember strongly disagreeing with a respected brother in Christ of mine from Canada over this issue. I thought his belief on this viewpoint was totally ridiculous and made up and forced by a personal experience in his ministry on the streets. But when he challenged me to reread Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7, I began to see things differently as I investigated this position more with Scripture by other believers. Acts of the Apostles 18:24-28 was also instrumental in my understanding on this, as well (Seeing it is before Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7). Anyways, after coming to realize Spirit baptism was the New Covenant way (Although this truth was instituted after Christ’s death, it was a teaching that took time for His Jewish disciples to understand and accept - besides Paul), I see Peter’s writing of 1 Peter 3:21 as an account of his experience on water baptism under the rules of the Old Covenant when John the Baptist instituted it (as an introduction for the pre-cross earthly ministry of Jesus Christ). For if you are for Cessation of the miraculous sign gifts, you cannot obey the instruction to “desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy” according to 1 Corinthians 14:1. I believe this is the case for 1 Peter 3:21. For Paul makes it clear that he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17).
#3. My third position on 1 Peter 3:21 was temporary and I seen it as referring to only Spirit baptism but this did not sit right with me in the fact that Peter was a Jew and the fact that Peter was saying that this was not for the removal of the filth from the flesh (sin). It also did not align with the parallel of Noah and his family being saved by the flood waters (figuratively speaking). But this position was only temporary and I have now abandoned it. I now hold to my second primary position.
In other words, Peter is not incorrect in 1 Peter 3:21. Before the change in God’s program with the New Covenant with Christ dying upon the cross: Peter is telling us that baptism (we as the reader would understand as the Old Covenant system) does not save us in putting away the filth of the flesh (sin), but it is an answer of having a good conscience towards God. Like with the Old Law or the Torah, one could be circumcised as long as one did not do it for salvation. Back in the early church, a Gentile Christian was circumcised in order to move about around the Jewish region unhindered. But circumcision is not a requirement anymore than water baptism is a requirement anymore. Peter is saying baptism does not save, and that is still true today as it was under the Old Covenant when John the Baptist instituted that practice. Peter was writing from his perspective of what he knew under the Old Covenant (Which was true for it’s time).
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Bible Highlighter
Well-Known Member
In one sense, while believers do have to cooperate with God of their own free will (Synergism, not Calvinism), the good works believers do ultimately is the working of God doing the good work through them. It’s why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. It was Jesus who was doing the good works through their lives. For Philippians 2:13 says, “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” And Jesus says you can do nothing without me (John 15:5).
What if God says to you, "I see no evidence in the long life you lived that your faith was in nothing but the blood, so off to the lake of fire you go."
God might say, “ BB—Your Sins? What Sins? I seem to have “ Forgotten” them .....why, it’s as if I cast them away “as far as the East is from the West” ......it’s as if I took them and threw them into the “deepest depths of the sea!” Now I know that I am the One that originated this “ Grace” thing and I am the One that made the Promise to Save you if you simply “ turned to me as a Lost Sinner That put His Faith in My Son , Christ Jesus to save them, but “ this” is ridiculous! Even worse than all of this , it appears that you never did “ anything” to “ prove” to Me and everybody else that you did some type of work or achieved a new level of Morality in your life to prove everything was up to snuff, Salvation- Wise! And you never even Worried about it!
The fact that you did Nothing and never even worried about it leaves me to conclude that you must have put your Total Faith in Jesus and * HIS* Finished Work At The Cross .....Lucky for you , I can actually see your New Heart and it is obvious that you BELIEVED and LIVED- OUT a great song that I inspired......”NOTHING but the Blood Of Jesus” ......That Works for Me ... You were one of the Few that actually “ Got It”.......My Salvation was a GIFT! .....GIVEN to those that do NOT work for it! Yep, BB , you did NOTHING But Believe—— it Saved you....The Fact that you did NOTHING to “ Help” Me was all the “ Evidence” that I needed to see.....It Saved you.....I answered your #1 Prayer.....I transformed you into a “ Good and Faithful” Servant.....it was *ALL* My Doing.....Maybe That is why you are giving ME all of the Glory.... Just the Way I demand it......Come and enter into my ever- lasting Joy!
God might say, “ BB—Your Sins? What Sins? I seem to have “ Forgotten” them .....why, it’s as if I cast them away “as far as the East is from the West” ......it’s as if I took them and threw them into the “deepest depths of the sea!” Now I know that I am the One that originated this “ Grace” thing and I am the One that made the Promise to Save you if you simply “ turned to me as a Lost Sinner That put His Faith in My Son , Christ Jesus to save them, but “ this” is ridiculous! Even worse than all of this , it appears that you never did “ anything” to “ prove” to Me and everybody else that you did some type of work or achieved a new level of Morality in your life to prove everything was up to snuff, Salvation- Wise! And you never even Worried about it!
The fact that you did Nothing and never even worried about it leaves me to conclude that you must have put your Total Faith in Jesus and * HIS* Finished Work At The Cross .....Lucky for you , I can actually see your New Heart and it is obvious that you BELIEVED and LIVED- OUT a great song that I inspired......”NOTHING but the Blood Of Jesus” ......That Works for Me ... You were one of the Few that actually “ Got It”.......My Salvation was a GIFT! .....GIVEN to those that do NOT work for it! Yep, BB , you did NOTHING But Believe—— it Saved you....The Fact that you did NOTHING to “ Help” Me was all the “ Evidence” that I needed to see.....It Saved you.....I answered your #1 Prayer.....I transformed you into a “ Good and Faithful” Servant.....it was *ALL* My Doing.....Maybe That is why you are giving ME all of the Glory.... Just the Way I demand it......Come and enter into my ever- lasting Joy!
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Not my problem....Fake Believers, or “ Tares” do such a great job of imitating those that are truly “ Born Again”, it takes an Angel of God to separate the two groups.....and that will happen in due time....
Personally, I know that “ my” Confession has resulted in Salvation because I can say with sincerity “ Jesus is LORD” ....and Paul says that I could not say that and of course, Mean it, without the Holy Spirit In- Dwelling me.....That Holy Spirit Inside of me? That’s the Common Denominator Of any person that is Saved....And I have it.
Sorry if that “Bar” is set too low for you—— take it up with Jesus —- HE was the One that told Paul to write it....
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Even Judas Iscariot looked like the 'real deal' to the remaining 11 disciples, yet Jesus said of Judas, "he is a devil." (John 6:70-71) Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. (John 6:64) Only Jesus truly knows the heart of everyone. He knows if we have truly placed our faith in Him alone for salvation or not. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal/pseudo" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together in various churches and on various Christian forum sites. The Bible does mention 'false brethren' (2 Corinthians 11:26; Galatians 2:4) and tares among the wheat. (Matthew 13:24-30)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
1 Peter 3:21 tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).
We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were in the ark. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.
The Bible makes it clear that believers are saved prior to receiving water baptism. These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before receiving water baptism. (Acts 10:44-47) Now water baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ for salvation that saved them. (Acts 10:43)
Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself. (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4) There are a handful of 'alleged' proof texts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes water baptism mandatory for salvation. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that water baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
O foolish man, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth?
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.
She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire. In thy filthiness is lewdness: because I have purged thee, and thou wast not purged, thou shalt not be purged from thy filthiness any more, till I have caused my fury to rest upon thee.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The issue is they see the word baptize. And water fills their hearts.
Baptizmo (greek) is not all about water. Its just an action verb. To be immersed. Or placed into something. To be overwhelmed, The art of dying fabric was called baptism, one who dyed fabric was called a baptized
Again the flaw comes back to the english bibles and the interpreters. Who did not translate a work but transliterated it for whatever reason. And made a new word that was never used before.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Wow. Talk about twisting a passage.
You should seek col 2. The circumcision/baptism done by the hand of God. Not the hand of man.
Both re[resent cleansing. Both have been misinterpreted in their respective churches (the jews and judaism, and the church and legalism) as a means to eternal life. When they in fact SYMBOLISED what God did to us in our salvation.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I guess when you see God. You will tell him how it is.
I pray you understand when he gives you his answer.
James said if we keep the whole law, yet just STUMBLE in one area. We are guilty of the whole law. Did you read that? He did not say willingly, He did not say on purposely, he said they stumbled in one area. It was an oopsie. A mistake. They did not mean to do it. They got tripped up and fell. That sin caused the person to be found guilty..
Paul said the wage or penalty of sin is death. He did not name sins, because all sins cause death
As for sin unto death….
If I go and commit the sin of getting drunk, get in my car, and crash into a tree and get killed. I have committed a sin unto death,
If on the other hand, I have somehow made it home alive, I have committed a sin which was not unto death. Those who see me commit that sin should come beside me, warn me, and help me overcome that sin. They should not pray that I should have died. They shoudl try to help me so next time, i do not commit a sin that leads to death (mine or someone elses)
See we need to be open. And stop interpreting the word to suit our belief system like sadly so many do (I am sure I am guilty of this in areas myself. I know I was in the past) and actually study to shew ourselves approved.
You want to excuse your sin, and say they are not worthy of condemnation because they are not “grave sins” Feel free. Adam and Eve merely took a bite out of a peace of fruit. And look at the result which affects us all still today from that one seemingly minor sin.
Ps. That one minor sin lead to death. Not only for the sinner, but all of mankind. And the earth as they knew it. Until God restores both.
If you think your minor sins ave no consequences and would not condemn you where you stand. Then you do not know or understand who or what God is.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Water-salvationists do tend to confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism at times which results in confusing the picture with the reality.
In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we read - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. This is clearly Spirit baptism and not water baptism.
Also, in 1 Corinthians 10:2, we read that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses" but of course, this does not mean that the Israelites were water baptized into the body of Moses, yet this signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses, just as water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Jesus Christ as our Savior.
In Luke 12:50, Jesus said - "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross. So we cannot simply give a broad brushed definition of the word 'baptized' or 'baptism' as water baptism.
None of this addresses a single thing I said.
Who was, or wasn't, a Jew has NOTHING to do with anything.
It's nothing more than your attempt at a deflection. (Notice that this is the appropriate use of 'your.')
OMG! "...it will not prove your right."
You literally typed THAT!
You have proven again that 4th grade grammar is over your head!
I am not under the Law.
Loving God IS keeping his Commandments.
If a person loves God, they obey him.
If they don't, they deny what God says about loving him and make up their own definition.
Jesus said to obey the Commandments. So, you are not being honest with yourself.
God said the old covenant was everlasting. I guess he lied.
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