Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not under the Law.

Loving God IS keeping his Commandments.

If a person loves God, they obey him.

If they don't, they deny what God says about loving him and make up their own definition.

Jesus said to obey the Commandments. So, you are not being honest with yourself.

God said the old covenant was everlasting. I guess he lied.

I don’t even know what your viewpoint or position is in regards to Romans 6:14 that says, “for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

So I am not sure how to exactly answer you.
So a commentary on Romans 6:14 by you would be helpful.
I also do not know if you are in favor of OSAS, or if you are against OSAS, either.

You seem to imply that the Old Covenant is still in effect.
Is this true?
So you believe that the 613 laws of Moses are in effect?
Yet, you say you are not under this Law? If that is what you are saying, how exactly does that work and can you provide Scripture to back up your words?

What do you make of the unique laws and commands that come from Jesus Christ and His followers in the pages of the New Testament or New Covenant?

What do you think of the New Testament or New Covenant?
Are you saying both the Old Covenant and New Covenant are both in effect?

If you explain these things, I may be able to respond to you.

Thank you, and may God bless you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

None of this addresses a single thing I said.

Who was, or wasn't, a Jew has NOTHING to do with anything.

It's nothing more than your attempt at a deflection. (Notice that this is the appropriate use of 'your.')

OMG! "...it will not prove your right."

You literally typed THAT!

You have proven again that 4th grade grammar is over your head!

Good day sir.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

O foolish man, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth?

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire. In thy filthiness is lewdness: because I have purged thee, and thou wast not purged, thou shalt not be purged from thy filthiness any more, till I have caused my fury to rest upon thee.

And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

I agree. This is why Eternal Security or OSAS is just dumb. They must distort or ignore these verses.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ my” Confession has resulted in Salvation because I can say with sincerity “ Jesus is LORD”

How does a person know that their confession is sincere? Just because they think it is? The Bible tells us to make our calling and election sure, and how to do that. Do you know where it says this in the Bible?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess when you see God. You will tell him how it is.

I pray you understand when he gives you his answer.

James said if we keep the whole law, yet just STUMBLE in one area. We are guilty of the whole law. Did you read that? He did not say willingly, He did not say on purposely, he said they stumbled in one area. It was an oopsie. A mistake. They did not mean to do it. They got tripped up and fell. That sin caused the person to be found guilty..

Paul said the wage or penalty of sin is death. He did not name sins, because all sins cause death

As for sin unto death….

If I go and commit the sin of getting drunk, get in my car, and crash into a tree and get killed. I have committed a sin unto death,

If on the other hand, I have somehow made it home alive, I have committed a sin which was not unto death. Those who see me commit that sin should come beside me, warn me, and help me overcome that sin. They should not pray that I should have died. They shoudl try to help me so next time, i do not commit a sin that leads to death (mine or someone elses)

See we need to be open. And stop interpreting the word to suit our belief system like sadly so many do (I am sure I am guilty of this in areas myself. I know I was in the past) and actually study to shew ourselves approved.

You want to excuse your sin, and say they are not worthy of condemnation because they are not “grave sins” Feel free. Adam and Eve merely took a bite out of a peace of fruit. And look at the result which affects us all still today from that one seemingly minor sin.

Ps. That one minor sin lead to death. Not only for the sinner, but all of mankind. And the earth as they knew it. Until God restores both.

If you think your minor sins ave no consequences and would not condemn you where you stand. Then you do not know or understand who or what God is.



​

I believe James 2:10 is referring to the Royal Law of love (James 2:8), or the Law of liberty (James 2:12) (Which is New Covenant Law or a part of the Law of Christ). So James 2:10 is in context to loving others. That is what James is talking about. The Law of loving others. For the brethren James is writing to was having respect of persons in that they were showing only favor to the rich brethren and not showing any favor to the poor brethren. They were not being loving. Hence, why James said what he did. They were offending in the point in regards to the law of love, and not just any Law. In other words, they are breaking all of God’s laws if they are offending in one point in context to the law of love.

But you or another might protest and say that all the Law and the prophets hinge on the greatest two commandments (Which is to love) (Matthew 22:36-40).

So this sounds like an, “Ah, ha, I gotcha!” kind of moment.
So this truly looks like an open and shut case.

But is it?

Remember the Canaanite woman who kept being pushy with Jesus? (See: Matthew 15:21-28).

Why is her story important with this topic?

Well, there are three reasons why.

#1. God Said It, and That’s The Final Word.
#2. Rules of Exception.
#3. Real World Examples.

I. God Said It, and That’s The Final Word.

“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.” (Matthew 15:24-26).

If this was all that was written in the Canaanite woman’s story, we could quickly assume that there was no other word to conclude on the matter and God’s word was final and that was it. But what if Scripture spoke elsewhere about another truth that explained more? Anyways, it is good thing we have the full story so we don’t have to look elsewhere in God’s Word, but the point here is that the Canaanite woman did not take Jesus’ words as being the final word, but she kept pushing and seeking His help based on a truth she knew. My point here is that while James 2:10, and Matthew 22:36-40 sound definitive and the last word on the subject, it is hardly the case when we look at other verses honestly and plainly.

II. Rules of Exception.

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.” (Matthew 15:27).

The unexpected happened. Here was a woman who offered a truth that was true. She gave a clause of exception. We know that Jesus said great was her faith and her daughter was made whole that very hour. But imagine if she just took Jesus’ word as the final authority and felt that was it? She would move on and be sad and without hope for her daughter. Good thing she knew about other truths in life. Good thing she new there were rules of exception to what Jesus was saying. Thus, we have to look at James 2:10 in light of other verses and real life that there may be a rule of exception (and I believe there is).

III. Real World Examples.

Jesus gave a real world example to the Canaanite woman.

“But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.”
(Matthew 15:26).​

The Canaanite woman replied also with a real world example that complimented Jesus’ example.

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.”
(Matthew 15:27).​

Jesus’ reply was not,

“Hold your peace! Only the Son can make parables, or life examples, and not the children of this world!”
​

However, Jesus’ reply to the Canaanite woman was…

“O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” (Matthew 15:28).

So Jesus accepted her parable or real world example. This means we can make parables or real world examples, too. Why is this important to your denial of “sins that do not lead unto death” outside of 1 John 5:16-17? Well, because life teaches us that there are crimes in this life that do not deserve the death penalty. This is important to understand because the Lord accepts parables or real world examples from us as acceptable truth and He looks at it as our having faith and trust in Him. For God has established certain truths in the real world to also guide us and to confirm what His Word says. If this was not the case, then Jesus would condemn the Canaanite woman’s extended parable.

Again, reread Matthew 5:22 in the AMP Translation. Jesus makes it clear that there two related that sins that are punished in earthly courts, and there is a third related sin that is punishable by hellfire.

Matthew 5:22 AMP
“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.”

To deny this is to deny the Bible, and real life; But I suppose that is what OSAS does to people. No offense of course. That’s just how I see it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The fact that you did Nothing and never even worried about it leaves me to conclude that you must have put your Total Faith in Jesus and * HIS* Finished Work At The Cross .

No, BB, Christ is saying this:

"46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?" Luke 6:46​

Let's read the rest of the discourse:

"46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.d

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!” Luke 6:46-49​

You are deluded if you think Jesus is congratulating people for sincerely confessing him as Lord and then not having the life to show that confession to really be sincere. See, a sincere confession that 'Jesus is Lord' means Jesus really is Lord of your life. That means you are submitting to him in obedience to his Lordship. Not submitting to his Lordship means your confession 'Jesus is Lord' is fake and that you are not really saved. Your gospel deceives people into thinking they are saved when they really may not be saved at all. Build in such a way as to get a reward, BB! Your gospel builds a bunch of fake converts into the building of God that won't make it through the coming judgement because it does not tell them the way the Bible says you know you are really saved and ready to stand before Jesus.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am not under the Law.

Loving God IS keeping his Commandments.

If a person loves God, they obey him.

If they don't, they deny what God says about loving him and make up their own definition.

Jesus said to obey the Commandments. So, you are not being honest with yourself.

God said the old covenant was everlasting. I guess he lied.

God “ found fault” with the Old Covenant.....it was determined to be “ weak and useless” due to the fact that it had NO POWER to SAVE! ......The ONLY POWER to Save is Found In the Gospel...I heartily recommend that one goes where the POWER is......1Cor15:1-4

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?" Luke 6:46


There are many things that Jesus said “ to do”....... Jesus said to “ pluck out your eye” of it causes you to sin.....you really want to go down “ that “ road? For now, let’s concentrate on what He said to do to get Saved......Jesus said that we were to do “ the Will Of The Father”...... that makes sense, doesn’t it? ...... but what “ was” His Father’s Will? The Disciples asked this question and Jesus gave a plain simple answer...” The Will Of The Father is to BELIEVE in the One that I sent”.....That is what I do.....That is all I “Need” to do......it’s the acceptance of a Free Gift.....If Anybody will do just that much for his starting point, God will put His Spirit in you and all this other stuff that you and others obsess about will take care of itself...God will provide Both the Desire to be obedient and the Power to do it...all you have to do is Turn to Him—— THAT “ Turning” is the Repentance thst will Save.....” TURN to Me ( Repent) and I will Turn to you....”...... yeah, it’s THAT easy.....

If you simply Believe in Jesus and Trust Him and ask Him to Save you, the onus is on HIM to fulfill His Promise....” Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL be saved.....if one MUST get baptized , if one MUST produce some kind of Morality Improvement, If one has to stand on his head and whistle” Dixie” , it is up to God to see that whatever MUST be done WILL be done.....” HE will finish the Good Work that He started”

The Truth is that Everything that needs to be done for your Salvation was accomplished at the Cross....Total Grace and total Forgiveness has been purchased FOR every person that has ever lived.....yep, the work has been done—- all that YOU have to do is “ Cash - In “ to what has already been accomplished.....you can “ cash in” by simply Believing the Gospel Found In 1Cor 15:1-4.....why not give it a whirl ? God bless....

 

[JunChosen]

I agree. This is why Eternal Security or OSAS is just dumb. They must distort or ignore these verses.

Just dumb, you say? Or, is it because you do not understand nor have the capacity of knowledge what truly is the meaning of Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved.???

I would wager that a child who can read and understands what he reads, will see that the words "eternal" and the phrase, "once saved always saved" denotes eternal/forever in characters!!!

Why can't adults!!!

 

[Taken]

I think there will be LOTS of OSASers spending eternity with the Devil who made up the OSAS doctrine.

I think those who teach Against the Lords teaching of Salvation, have a much bigger issue to worry about, then other men who have Received their Gift of Salvation.

 

[JunChosen]

kcnalp said:

I think there will be LOTS of OSASers spending eternity with the Devil who made up the OSAS doctrine.

I've got news for you. It is God who wrote extensively about Once Saved Always Saved.

Natural man can't see this because it is foolishness to him. He can't understand the meaning and power of the word "eternal" as in "eternal life."

 

[Taken]

I agree. This is why Eternal Security or OSAS is just dumb. They must distort or ignore these verses.

All of Scripture is TRUE.
Not all of Scripture APPLIES to every person.

If you have Not Received Salvation, Particular Scriptures do and do not apply to you.

If you have Received Salvation, Particular Scriptures do and do not apply to you.

God Sent HIS Salvation into the World for any man to Freely Take, according to Gods Order and Way to receive BEFORE a mans Physical Death....OR AFTER a mans PHYSICAL Death....

* But NO DOUBT; Regardless of WHEN the man Receives Gods Gift of Salvation, he is receiving; Gods Works of Conversion...
It is ONCE, and FOREVER.

Heb 13:
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Natural man can't see this because it is foolishness to him. He can't understand the meaning and power of the word "eternal" as in "eternal life."

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

You don’t have eternal life yet.

You are still in the temporal world.

So do what Jesus said and strive to endure unto the end; this is when you will be:

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

 

[ScottA]

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

You don’t have eternal life yet.

You are still in the temporal world.

So do what Jesus said and strive to endure unto the end; this is when you be:

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

That is a gross misrepresentation of the scriptures.

You completely left out the first resurrection. Revelation 20:5-6

Be careful, there are consequences: Matthew 24:48-51

 

[Michiah-Imla]

That is a gross misrepresentation of the scriptures.

You and me and everyone walking alive on this earth are in the temporal.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven

You aren’t clothed upon with the house from heaven yet.

Endure to the end like Jesus said!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just dumb, you say? Or, is it because you do not understand nor have the capacity of knowledge what truly is the meaning of Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved.???

I would wager that a child who can read and understands what he reads, will see that the words "eternal" and the phrase, "once saved always saved" denotes eternal/forever in characters!!!

Why can't adults!!!

Yes, it’s dumb because why would Jesus and His apostles warn about how certain sins can keep us out of His Kingdom?
In Matthew 5:28-30, Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body is in danger of hell fire.
In Matthew 6:15, Jesus says if you do not forgive, the Father will not forgive you.
The apostle Paul lists various sins like murder, adultery, drunkenness, etcetera and says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Jesus and Paul are both warning believers and not unbelievers because if an unbeliever does not look upon a woman in lust, or if they decide to forgive everyone on the planet, or if they decide to not murder, they are still on the road to hell because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

All of Scripture is TRUE.
Not all of Scripture APPLIES to every person.

If you have Not Received Salvation, Particular Scriptures do and do not apply to you.

If you have Received Salvation, Particular Scriptures do and do not apply to you.

God Sent HIS Salvation into the World for any man to Freely Take, according to Gods Order and Way to receive BEFORE a mans Physical Death....OR AFTER a mans PHYSICAL Death....

* But NO DOUBT; Regardless of WHEN the man Receives Gods Gift of Salvation, he is receiving; Gods Works of Conversion...
It is ONCE, and FOREVER.

Heb 13:
[5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us if we abide by the terms of the contract or covenant. Read Deuteronomy 31. In the same chapter it says God will never forsake the Israelites but in that same chapter it says that He will forsake them if they break His covenant. Compare verses 6 and 8 with verses 16-17.

 

[ScottA]

You and me and everyone walking alive on this earth are in the temporal.

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven

You aren’t clothed upon with the house from heaven yet.

Endure to the end like Jesus said!

No, that is Paul speaking of those who were of the old nature and to those of these times who have not yet been born from above.

However, if one is born of God they are from above, a new creation bound only to this world and this earthly house for service--to live is Christ. But what you are saying is against Him, not for Him...the grief of the Spirit which He has sent. Moreover, it is Jesus and the Father also who according to His own words have already come into those--and as Paul confirmed, it is no longer we who live, but He who lives in us.

The consequences of rejecting these things which He has long ago already begun since going to the Father, is to be cut out of the first resurrection with the hypocrites, according to Matthew 24:48-51.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, it’s dumb because why would Jesus and His apostles warn about how certain sins can keep us out of His Kingdom?

Because...He was speaking to those who were born before salvation had come--He said those things before going to the cross.

Context.

But He also spoke of things that pertained to all--which is why Paul (the apostle to those who Christ must also bring, who clarified the matter after salvation came) said, the word of truth must be "rightly divided." Which, you are not doing--and you do it against half of the scriptures written after salvation had even come. Do you not know that you do this to yourself--cutting yourself out of the full measure of all that was promised?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just dumb, you say? Or, is it because you do not understand nor have the capacity of knowledge what truly is the meaning of Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved.???

I would wager that a child who can read and understands what he reads, will see that the words "eternal" and the phrase, "once saved always saved" denotes eternal/forever in characters!!!

Why can't adults!!!

Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ and eternal life is not a super power or a magical wish granted to a person by God.

According to God's Word:
Jesus (the King of kings and Lord of lords) is the ONLY One who has immortality or eternal life.

1 Timothy 6:15-16

15 “…the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”​

According to the Bible: We have to abide in the Son in order to have life (i.e. eternal life).

1 John 5:12

“He that hath the Son hath life;
and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”​

According to His Word: The assurance in how we can know that we truly know the Lord (or abide in Him) is if we find that we are keeping His commandments. For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.

1 John 2:3-4

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
​

There are also many warnings in Scripture about how sin can destroy our souls, as well. What do you do with verses like Matthew 5:28-30 and Matthew 6:15? How do you ignore or change them?

​

Let's say there is an energy source that is forever and it is said to never burn out or fizzle. You can access this new energy source via by plugging your appliances into your outlets in your home. So if you decide to plug in, you have this forever energy. Jesus is like this in the sense that you have eternal life only if you abide or plug into Him. You cannot have eternal life without Jesus. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

​

Eternal life is never said to be an external thing that Jesus gifts to a person outside Himself. Eternal life is Jesus Himself.