Why Argue Against Doing the Law?

[Brakelite]

I understand. Mine was Feb. 9, 1977 around 8 pm.

That 43 years I mentioned was actually wrong... More like 45... My birthday was also in early 1977... About 3 months before Easter...We're almost twins lol.

 

[Robert Gwin]

God has His law, not laws, as I pointed out to you before. There are commandments and points of His law:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well.

As well as transgressions defined by His law:

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And there are more in Scripture of the apostles given to them by Jesus after His resurrection:

Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen.

This law of Christ is written in the hearts and minds of them that receive Him and His Spirit, called the law of the Spirit, so that our conscience bears witness to them: And so we keep a pure conscience by doing the law from within a pure heart.

They are also written in Scripture, so that we will not be led astray by guilt-tripping of men, that preach their own rules and commandments for law of Christ, such as circumcision of the flesh, Sabbath keeping, worship of days, no drinking wine, no eating certain foods, etc...

None of these things are written in Scripture as law to obey, and so are not law of Christ for all His followers to do.

Them that are free in the liberty of the law of Christ, have no conscience about such things one way or the other, and cannot be seduced into keeping commandments of men for law of Christ:

Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen.

The devil tempts believers in two ways: to transgress the law of Christ as written, and to obey the unwritten rules of man for law of Christ.

The former is no doing the word of Jesus, and the latter is not doing His law only.

I agree with you Rob in the things you mentioned, however those are things we are not to do, how bout what we need to do to fulfill doing God's will for salvation Mat 7:21?

 

[BarneyFife]

Dear Sis,

Do you notice that this:

Yes! Exactly. Barn, you are the first SDA I've seen that recognized that fact. In the OT they didn't trust God, the Father, even though He did all these miracles to show them they could. The New Testament is about our trust in Jesus. There were two covenants about law. The first was until the Seed of Promise, Jesus, should come. Galatians 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made. But Barn, you can still keep the sign of the first covenant if you want to. Ex. 31:13. It would be a sin for you not to at this point. Obey your conscience! Just adding all this for your understanding of where I am and why. Okay, good buddy?

...is far less voluminous than this?:

One, thing though, Barn. Testament is Covenant. We are in the New "Covenant." The New Covenant is the everlasting covenant, not the first. Ex. 34:28.

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 Corinthians 11:25
25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

Two Covenants

Galatians 4:
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Thanks, Sis! ;)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Dear Sis,

Do you notice that this:



...is far less voluminous than this?:


Thanks, Sis! ;)

Sorry Barn. Haven't quite woke up. Couldn't sleep well last night. I don't understand what your point is.

 

[BarneyFife]

Sorry Barn. Haven't quite woke up. Couldn't sleep well last night. I don't understand what your point is.

Yeah, that was a mistake. We're just all good. :) But I hate the way this forum software works.

 

[BarneyFife]

@1stCenturyLady

And I'm sorry to hear you didn't sleep well. Did you ever try a warm bath or shower before bed?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah, that was a mistake. We're just all good. :) But I hate the way this forum software works.

I believe you are good with your beliefs. I guess I just wanted you to believe I was good also with mine, so explained them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady

And I'm sorry to hear you didn't sleep well. Did you ever try a warm bath or shower before bed?

I would love a warm bath, but the kind I need now costs about $12,000!!! (walk in)

 

[BarneyFife]

I believe you are good with your beliefs. I guess I just wanted you to believe I was good also with mine, so explained them.

I don't judge. I'm a fruit inspector. lol

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't judge. I'm a fruit inspector. lol

Glad to hear it. But in general, that hasn't been my experience with other SDAs.

 

[BarneyFife]

I would love a warm bath, but the kind I need now costs about $12,000!!! (walk in)

Aw, I'm sorry. It can also help to soak the feet and lower legs in warm water, and use a warm, damp washcloth on your face. You might prefer to blot instead of rub.

 

[BarneyFife]

Glad to hear it. But in general, that hasn't been my experience with other SDAs.

I've found that often my perception of what others believe of me is not actually very accurate. Many people just express themselves inadequately.

 

[BarneyFife]

Glad to hear it. But in general, that hasn't been my experience with other SDAs.

Were your folks Adventists?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Aw, I'm sorry. It can also help to soak the feet and lower legs in warm water, and use a warm, damp washcloth on your face. You might prefer to blot instead of rub.

I think I just ate too late. I prefer going to be on a partially empty stomach.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Were your folks Adventists?

Yes, both. My dad is why my mother became an Adventist, and an American citizen from Australia. But he never went to church. He smoked. I think it had more to do with his sister, than him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@BarnyFife
talk to you later.

 

[robert derrick]

I agree with you Rob in the things you mentioned, however those are things we are not to do, how bout what we need to do to fulfill doing God's will for salvation Mat 7:21?

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

When we believe on His name, we receive Him with power to purify our hearts, that our lives may be righteous and pleasing to Him.

Doing the law and word of God beings with the heart first.

Doing righteousness of God is being righteous of heart and deed.

The error is to seek to do His righteousness from an uncleansed soul and mind: if the heart is purified of lust by the faith of Jesus, so will the life be cleansed of sins that come by lust.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Conclusion: No man can do any good and be justified with God, while also doing evil. First we must cease trasngressing the law: not doing those things, then we may do good without the law condemning us.

That can only be by Jesus Christ purifying the soul of lust and cleansing the conscience of sinning.

Once we are born again and cease doing the evil, then whatsoever we do by faith is the good only.

Souls purified of lust cannot sin, because sin only comes by lusting:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

When we believe on His name, we receive Him with power to purify our hearts, that our lives may be righteous and pleasing to Him.

Doing the law and word of God beings with the heart first.

Doing righteousness of God is being righteous of heart and deed.

The error is to seek to do His righteousness from an uncleansed soul and mind: if the heart is purified of lust by the faith of Jesus, so will the life be cleansed of sins that come by lust.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Conclusion: No man can do any good and be justified with God, while also doing evil. First we must cease trasngressing the law: not doing those things, then we may do good without the law condemning us.

That can only be by Jesus Christ purifying the soul of lust and cleansing the conscience of sinning.

Once we are born again and cease doing the evil, then whatsoever we do by faith is the good only.

Souls purified of lust cannot sin, because sin only comes by lusting:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Definitely Rob, the only way any of us make it is because of the ransom Jesus paid. We can't give up though.

 

[farouk]

We as Christians (whether gentiles or Hebrews) are not under the Law. We have been relieved of that, and for a very good reason: because no one can keep it. Jesus, Paul and James all had the same point in that if you break one point of the law, you are guilty of breaking the whole law. Jesus even further made it difficult when he related if you so much lust in your heart, you are guilty whether you did it physically or not.

So not being under the law is liberty. But there are responsibilities: we are to love the Lord and put him first, we are to learn of him and we are to love our neighbors. Their are other things, but the "royal law" or the "2 great commandments" are a good summarizing.

But no... We don't have to keep the Law of Moses/God (yes, they are the same thing). And again, its a good thing. It is too distracting from the new covenant which comes down to two simple things (and THOSE two are a full time duty).

Following the Law didn't work. Ever. But does that mean we shouldn't? Well, these laws are not grievous and following them will help your physical man stay out of trouble. All things are lawful... Sure. But not all things edify or are a good idea.

Following the Law (or parts of it) are not a sin against Grace. BUT... When you point to your obedience to the Law as proof of your righteousness, then there is a problem. The second you point to yourself and your performance of the law, you have 100% ruined grace. Furthermore, beating up on a fellow saint because he or she breaks your pet peeve sin makes you a hypocrite and under the whole law.

But... No. Following the law is a good idea. Just don't point to you batting average as an indicator or your righteousness.

@FHII Hebrews 7.12 shows that the law was changed. Hebrews 7.19 shows that what the believer now has is better than the law.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

making oneself spiritual without the letter of the law only kills righteousness.

Making oneself spiritual without GRACE is the real problem of "church Bewilderment":

Bible Answer To Confusing Bewilderment!