Before Abraham Existed I AM

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Wrangler

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"It is because you, a man, make yourself to be God!" They understood!
More backdoor entry attempts.

"They" are not the word of God. When "they" executed Jesus, where they right then also? If not, why are you using them as a standard of right in the former case but disavowing them as a standard of right in the latter case?
 

marks

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More backdoor entry attempts.

"They" are not the word of God. When "they" executed Jesus, where they right then also? If not, why are you using them as a standard of right in the former case but disavowing them as a standard of right in the latter case?
In the former case, we are testing their understanding of their own language. In the latter case, we are testing the outcome of their theology.

That's another of my complaints, when someone fails to recognize the implictions of their views. They denied Who Jesus showed them He is, and killed Him because of their lack of understanding.

"This man makes Himself the Son of God. We have a law that He must die."

"Not for a good work do we stone you, but because you, a man, make yourself God."

Much love!
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Derogatory remarks for you giving a single word? I just pointed out your CCN response of... Exactly! That was so lame.... please repost your meatier response....

You want to talk facts! Fact... Jesus Has a God!!!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

TLHKAJ... will you over come, or do you claim Jesus is God???

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Silly Child... Jesus has a God both before and after His resurrection!

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

TLHKAJ do you know the only true God who Sent Jesus? Perhaps you should read Rev 4 and 5... leave out the verses and Note... God is worshiped on the throne, and only one man is worthy to take the book out of Gods hand who is sitting on that throne... the Lamb of God... Jesus

You starting to see now? perhaps not??? However, someone is... or I would not still be posting here..
Paul


But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.”
Hebrews 1:8
 
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farouk

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You ignored my meatier post.
Your derogatory remarks are very telltale of your character, or lack thereof. I don't care to engage with you any further. I will only post the truth and discuss the truth with ones who value the truth.
(Ignore....)
@TLHKAJ If there is an opposite agenda against what Scripture clearly says, then further words can become superfluous.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Derogatory remarks for you giving a single word? I just pointed out your CCN response of... Exactly! That was so lame.... please repost your meatier response....

You want to talk facts! Fact... Jesus Has a God!!!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

TLHKAJ... will you over come, or do you claim Jesus is God???

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Silly Child... Jesus has a God both before and after His resurrection!

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

TLHKAJ do you know the only true God who Sent Jesus? Perhaps you should read Rev 4 and 5... leave out the verses and Note... God is worshiped on the throne, and only one man is worthy to take the book out of Gods hand who is sitting on that throne... the Lamb of God... Jesus

You starting to see now? perhaps not??? However, someone is... or I would not still be posting here..
Paul


And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Hebrews 1:6
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Derogatory remarks for you giving a single word? I just pointed out your CCN response of... Exactly! That was so lame.... please repost your meatier response....

You want to talk facts! Fact... Jesus Has a God!!!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

TLHKAJ... will you over come, or do you claim Jesus is God???

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Silly Child... Jesus has a God both before and after His resurrection!

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

TLHKAJ do you know the only true God who Sent Jesus? Perhaps you should read Rev 4 and 5... leave out the verses and Note... God is worshiped on the throne, and only one man is worthy to take the book out of Gods hand who is sitting on that throne... the Lamb of God... Jesus

You starting to see now? perhaps not??? However, someone is... or I would not still be posting here..
Paul


Jesus Christ The Only Wise God
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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Derogatory remarks for you giving a single word? I just pointed out your CCN response of... Exactly! That was so lame.... please repost your meatier response....

You want to talk facts! Fact... Jesus Has a God!!!

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

TLHKAJ... will you over come, or do you claim Jesus is God???

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Silly Child... Jesus has a God both before and after His resurrection!

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

TLHKAJ do you know the only true God who Sent Jesus? Perhaps you should read Rev 4 and 5... leave out the verses and Note... God is worshiped on the throne, and only one man is worthy to take the book out of Gods hand who is sitting on that throne... the Lamb of God... Jesus

You starting to see now? perhaps not??? However, someone is... or I would not still be posting here..
Paul


Our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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We shall see from Jesus' own words in Matthew 11:10 (also, Mark 1:1-3; Luke 7:27), that He makes a direct and unambiguous claim for Himself to be the Yahweh of the Old Testament. It must be noted, that this claim does not in any way deny that The Father and Holy Spirit are also Yahweh.

In the original words found in Malachi 3:1, where the Speaker is Yahweh. The Greek of Matthew 11:10 ( Mark 1:1-3; Luke 7:27), the words are neither from the Hebrew or Greek (LXX) of the passage in Malachi. Instead, The Lord Jesus Christ, on His own Authority, has changed the words, so that they refer directly to Himself, what is in Malachi, of Yahweh. Jesus has changed the first person, “before Me (μου)”, to the second person, “before thee (σου)”. In the passage in Malachi, Yahweh speaks of the “messenger”, who is John the Baptist, as His forerunner, “going before Him”. Jesus, by changing the pronoun, appropriates what Yahweh Speaks in Malachi, to Himself, and makes John the Baptist as His own “messenger”, who went before Him! In the passage in Malachi, we also have the Coming of the “the Messenger (Angel) of the Covenant”, Who is “the Lord ('âdôn) Whom you seek”, before Whom John the Baptist went to “prepare the Way”!

Matthew 3:3, and the other Gospels, also teaches that John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Yahweh, as in Jesus Christ, “God manifested in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16. Paul's words)

“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the Lord, make His paths straight.”

In the original verse in Isaiah 40:3, it reads, “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the LORD (Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God”
 

TLHKAJ

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@TLHKAJ If there is an opposite agenda against what Scripture clearly says, then further words can become superfluous.
Yes. I agree, @farouk.

Matthew 7:6
[6]Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Titus 3:8-11
[8]This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
[9]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[10]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 

ScottA

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Then you are at the beginning of your journey at this kind of Study...

Get your Hebrew out Boy...


NASB Ecc 3:10 I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves. 11 He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity5769 in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the
beginning even to the end.

KJV Ecc 3:10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it. 11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world5769 in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

H5769 עלם עולם ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind

Translation: Ecc 3:10 So God makes everything proper and appropriate for His Plan, but He has put obscurity in their hearts.. so that, or in order that they (MAN) cannot know or understand what it is that He is doing to them in this human existence we call life.

You seem to see more than most... Yet, do you see there is no Heaven or Hell... but only the coming 1000yr kingdom of our Lord and King! How long will Jesus reign...

1Co 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then when Christ comes, those who belong to him. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death. for he has put everything in subjection under his feet. But when it says "everything" has been put in subjection, it is clear that this does not include the one who put everything in subjection to him.
And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will be subjected to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all.

Marvel not ScottA
Paul
:D

Whether Greek or Hebrew, it is all Spirit, which I have and am, which is also the end of all that is written and not written.

As for what is coming, the End (being Christ) has come already, yet not yet to all, but "each one in his own order." But this speaks only of time and the fullness thereof. Then all who are God's are in God, and all who are not God's are not.

;)
 

Carl Emerson

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In your estimation, did this thread start off with the love you refer or is the burden only on @Pierac?

Started OK but Post #6 indicated less than a loving attitude. If we weigh truth by fruit then folks rightly recoil and doubt the veracity of what is presented.

According to the locals, two witnesses have arrived in Jerusalem about 7 times because they failed to rightly identify themselves or the times.

I get a hint of that here...
 

Wrangler

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In the former case, we are testing their understanding of their own language.
Absurd rationalization. You are using 'they' as a standard of right based on your theology, then rejecting it when it conflicts later. Classic case of double standard.
 

tigger 2

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Not only is the wording of Ex. 3:14 not "I am" but "I will be" [ehyeh] in the Hebrew OT and "the being" in the Septuagint version, but everywhere else in Moses' writings the Hebrew (ehyeh) is rendered in nearly all Bibles as "I will be."

We know that some of the Jews wanted Jesus killed for blasphemy because he admitted to being the Messiah (Christ) - see Matt 26:59-68 and footnotes for Matt 26:65 and Luke 22:71 in The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan Publ., 1985.

“But powerful forces in the Jewish congregation, jealous of his popularity, incensed by his denunciation of some of them, and bitterly critical of his disregard for formalism, his willingness to violate some of the minor laws of the Jews, and his heretical claim that he was the Son of God, repudiated him, conspired to kill him, saw him crucified, and after his death, persecuted his followers.” - The Portable World Bible, Viking Press, p. 230.

It was even forbidden for others to say that Jesus was the Messiah - John 9:22. And, in fact, that was obviously why Stephen was stoned to death.

At Acts 7:55-58, Stephen looked up into heaven “and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and he said, ‘Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of man [synonymous with the Messiah, not God] standing at the right hand of God.’ But they [the Jews] ... cast him out of the city and stoned him.” - RSV.

Stephen was stoned, not because he claimed to be God, nor because he claimed Jesus was God (quite the contrary, in fact, as his quoted statement clearly shows: Jesus “standing at the right hand of God”) but because he was proclaiming Jesus to be the Messiah (Christ)! See The NIV Study Bible footnotes for Acts 7:56 and Mk 8:31.

Therefore, when Jesus claimed, at John 8:58, to have lived long before his first century human existence, the Jews could have perceived him as a false prophet, or a self-proclaimed “wizard,” or, more likely, as one claiming to be the Christ or Messiah (the Son of Man) and tried to stone him because of that.

The words ego eimi formed a phrase that was in very common use by first century Christians and Jews and in New Testament scriptures. It was certainly not understood (by Jews or Christians) as declaring one’s Godhood! If it could have been understood that way, we can be sure the Jews would have never applied it to themselves (as they did so frequently)!

Notice, for example, how the former blind man (John 9:9) actually identifies himself by saying “ego eimi,” but none of the other Jews present, even for a moment, understood him to be claiming to be Jehovah!

And Jesus earlier (John 6:20) clearly identified himself by saying to his frightened disciples: ego eimi. None of his disciples considered that to mean that Jesus was claiming to be God. In fact, most trinitarian-translated Bibles render Jesus’ words identifying himself here as “It is I.” E.g., ASV; AMP; CJB; DARBY; DRA; ESV; GNT; GNV; HCSB; ISV; JB; KJV; KJ21; TLB; MEV; MLB; MOUNCE; NAB; NASB; NCV; NEB; NET; NIV; NKJV; NLV; NRSV; REB; RSV; WEB; and WE.

The Gospel writers have clearly shown Jesus applying the term ego eimi to himself and meaning “I am the Christ.” Mark 13:6 shows Jesus saying, “I am he [literally just ego eimi alone, ‘I AM’]” - NEB. The parallel account at Luke 21:8 agrees. But the other parallel account by Matthew shows what Jesus actually meant by the “absolute” ego eimi in those parallel accounts of Mark and Luke: “I am the Messiah” - Matt. 24:5 - NEB.

Jesus saying ego eimi convinced some of the Jews that he was claiming to be the Messiah (so they attempted to stone him to death on the spot). Later, Jesus was taken before the high priest and all the chief priests and questioned by them (Matt. 26:59-66; Mk 14:53-64; Luke 22:66-71).

Now if Jesus had really previously claimed to be God by saying ego eimi (or if the Jews had even thought he might have been making such a claim by saying those words), what questions would they have asked him now that they had him up before the highest Jewish court? Would they have asked “Are you the Christ?”? (Remember the Christ was not believed by the Jews to actually be God himself. - NIVSB f.n. for Mark 14:61.) Wouldn’t they have concentrated on “Do you claim to be God?”?

But what did they actually ask Jesus at this most important Jewish trial where the Jews were actually seeking to find a reason, no matter how false, to kill him? Even though they searched for any and all accusers, even false accusers (Matt. 26 59-60), to give them a reason to kill Jesus, no one accused him of claiming to be God!

“Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus in order that they might put him to death; .... And the high priest said to him, ‘I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.’” - Matt. 26:59, 63, NASB.

C’mon, be honest now! Could any honest person reasonably conclude that Jesus had claimed to be God at John 8:58 and that the deciding question at the Jews’ trial of Jesus would then be “are you the Christ?”

There is absolutely no suggestion that the Jews thought Jesus was calling himself God here! They asked no questions concerning such a thing. This is absolutely impossible if there could have been even a possibility that ego eimi at John 8:58 could mean the speaker was claiming to be God! Remember, this high court was looking for any reason to have Jesus killed!

But if his statement at John 8:58 could mean “I am the Christ,” what would these priests and chief priests have asked him? Just exactly what they did ask him: “Are you the Christ, the Son of God?”

In the same way, John near the end of his Gospel wrote that his work was written down that you may believe that Jesus is (not God, but) the Christ the son of God". - John 20:31.
Examining the Trinity: "I AM" - Part 1
 
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marks

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Absurd rationalization. You are using 'they' as a standard of right based on your theology, then rejecting it when it conflicts later. Classic case of double standard.
I'm doing exegesis, rather.

Much love!
 

TLHKAJ

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And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Hebrews 1:6
Yes. And in light of verses like the ones below, there is only one conclusion. Jesus Christ is God (the Son).

Exodus 20:3-6
[3]Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[4]Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[5]Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[6]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exodus 34:14
[14]For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Deuteronomy 5:7-10
[7]Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
[8]Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
[9]Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
[10]And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.


Isaiah 45:5-6
[5]I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
[6]That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Psalm 86:9-10
[9]All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
[10]For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.

Hebrews 1:7-14
[7]And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8]But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9]Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[10]And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11]They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12]And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[13]But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[14]Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Revelation 22:9
[9]Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

We are told there is no other god before Him. We are instructed to worship God and God alone. And yet, we are clearly told to worship the Son, because ....He is God.
 
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