No Righteousness of Obeying The Ten Commandments

[stephen64]

Nope! That's a leaven idea of men. Paul was speaking AS A CHRISTIAN in Romans 7.

And some Christians obviously have a problem understanding Paul in that Romans 7 Chapter about pointing to our fleshy members being "the body of sin". Yeah... let's see if we can change... what Paul meant there by adding men's leaven fragments to it, and cloud up God's Word! That's the enemies of Christ wanting to do that.

You've had the truth adequately explained to you. If you want to believe Paul spent the whole of his christian life sold as a slave to sin, he couldn't do the good he wanted to do only the evil he did not want to do, fine, go ahead.

 

[Jim B]

You mean you have not done enough Bible study to learn how Lord Jesus meant that 'do not judge' idea? Man, I'll bet you think a lot of ideas you have where those studied rebutt you makes you think you are still correct!

I don't 'judge', because Jesus' idea there is about not judging one to CONDEMNATION.

Do you know what condemnation means? It's about saying someone is going to burn in the future lake of fire! Only Jesus has that Authority of who goes in that future fire.

Therefore, the word 'judge' can be have different contexts in God's Word, like DISCERNMENT. And He definitely commanded us to 'discern' the fruit, didn't He? Yeah!

That is what I did with YOUR words when you spoke AGAINST Bible Scripture. I 'discerned' your fruit, and it was rotten.

I repeat... Apparently your Bible doesn't contain this: "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own?" Matthew 7:1-3 Or if it does, why don't you accept it?

And you replied "That is what I did with YOUR words when you spoke AGAINST Bible Scripture. I 'discerned' your fruit, and it was rotten", thereby proving my point!

 

[stephen64]

Spare me the lies about this isn't supposedly about living according the law of God, because you started this thread by distorting Paul's words as him saying that his problems were caused by trying to keep God's commandments. You even went so far as to argue that Paul only talked about his past as an unconverted Pharisee when he stated that he delighted in keeping God's commandments.

The problem isn't that i don't understand what you're trying to say. The problem i have is that you are trying to camouflage a lawless gospel with righteous-sounding language and a blatant misuse of Paul's words.

Paul stated that sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law(rom7:5), that's his words, I'm just repeating them. He means if you live under the law. In verse 8 he states(his words again)
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
They are Paul's words concerning Saul the Pharisee, not mine!!!!! And he is explaining his words from verse 5.
Sin took occassion of the commandment thou shalt not covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul.
Im afraid you do not understand Paul's message in this chapter.
How many times would I have to tell you that Paul's core message was:
Die to righteousness of obeying the law and sin shall not be your master

As you clearly have no comprehension of understanding that message you respond as you do

 

[GEN2REV]

This is hypothetical nonsense. Why would any Christian continue to willfully sin?

So now you're claiming that you, and every Christian, consciously and intentionally obey the 10 Commandments then.

That's a bold LIE.

 

[Robert Gwin]

We are not to be under the law of Moses....basically Judaism. Paul didn't want the way of God in Christ to be caught up with Judaism...seeing that Judaism is what men can do in their own strength whereas the way of Christ is about being empowered to walk as Jesus walked.

Paul didn't want to downgrade Christianity to the level of Judaism.

Many misunderstand Paul to believe that God doesn't want us to FULFILL His commandments. If we are walking as Jesus walked (in His power) then the law will SHOW the world that we are fully obedient to it.

Jesus came to fulfill the law (of God) and those who are IN Christ also fulfill the law, as He did.

So we are released form having to follow Judaism...in order to fulfill the law of God PERFECTLY by putting on Christ.

That is according to the high calling in Christ to His saints. Of course, most believers will never walk at that level. We are called to be humble, contrite in heart, and fear the Lord. That is enough for the righteous...since the righteous are also saved, but scarcely so (1 Pet. 4:18). Only the saints have an abundant salvation. (2 Pet. 1)

There is another aspect to being "under the law" that is based on the POWER we are living by. All who live by their own strength are under the law...the law of sin and death. This is akin to being pulled down by the power of gravity. Being under grace in this regard means there is another law...the law of the Spirit...overcoming the law of sin the way the law of flight overcomes the law of gravity. Being in Christ is like entering into an airplane that gives us the ability to fly as long as we remain INSIDE the plane. When we exit the plane we become flightless like any other human. Likewise when we enter INTO Christ we rise above the power of sin by the power of the Spirit. Then we can walk without sin just as Jesus did. :)

This is the essence of the gospel in its full resolution.

You are applying the term Judasim to God's law sir as if it were a bad thing, it was in fact God's law, and perfect at that. The new covenant is just that, another step in God's plan to bring the world back to it's initial harmony with His purpose.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.
Heb10:15-17

Under the old covenant it was an external law engraven in stone and written on parchments. An external law does not necessarily mean you in your heart want to obey it does it? But under the new covenant the law has been transferred from an external law, to an internal law written in believers minds and placed on their hearts. Think of what that means in a practical sense. You must know the basics of how God wants you to live instinctively in your mind, for you must know in your mind what has been placed there. And you in your heart want to live as God desires you to live, for the law is now in your heart. Because, and only because that supernatural event has taken place in your life:
Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more, for: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth rom10:4

Now here's a very important thing. Many say, if you remove righteousness of obeying the law completely, you give people a licence to sin. Not so, for the law is now in a believers heart. If anyone could say ''because I have no righteousness before God of obeying the law I can live however I like and sin as much as I like''' they have not been born again, for the law is not in their heart and mind
Notice the order of things. Firstly, the law is written in believers minds and placed on their hearts, then it is added Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

Hi Steve, some do believe that Christians have a license to sin, however there are rules and regulations for Christians as well, simply a different set of laws, that we are expected to obey. You made a valid point however, the desire, the law covenant for God's people was kind of like a forced service, whereas all Christians are voluntary in serving. Most of us have not been born again, but all Christians are under the same laws.

 

[mailmandan]

Mixing law and GRACE Never works! (Romans_11:6):

Bible Answer For Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

Amen! Salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" is a "different" gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9) Here is a classic example below of "mixing law and grace" from a statement made by a SDA from another Christian forum site:

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

You are applying the term Judasim to God's law sir as if it were a bad thing, it was in fact God's law, and perfect at that. The new covenant is just that, another step in God's plan to bring the world back to it's initial harmony with His purpose.

If God's way in Christ had been satisfied in Judaism then Jesus would not have come. Inside Judaism is the law of God AND the law of Moses. What marks the Jew is not the law of God but the law of Moses. The 10 commandments are to be seen as universal regardless of religion especially where the second tablet is concerned (righteousness). The first tablet (holiness) was covered by the law of Moses....as a marker until true holiness would come....until Christ would rain down (teach) righteousness.

So then the law of God is perfect, but the law of Moses needed a spiritual upgrade. In either case there was a perfection lacking due to the weakness of the flesh. Jesus took on our weakness to make a perfect covering for us in Himself...so that by putting on Christ we put on His perfection and fulfill BOTH aspects (duality) of the law in both righteousness and holiness. As such the law of Moses is obsolete....and Judaism along with it. (unless as a marker for those who have not yet discovered Christ)

Now the Church has only scraped the surface of what it means to be the Church. We have mostly opted for dead forms since we lack the faith and the earnestness to seek the face of God for His full measure of grace. Until then the churches are just markers, treading water so to speak, until revival comes.

 

[mailmandan]

No one will perfectly obey the letter of the law. Think of what it would mean to live a sinless life, perfectly obey the letter of the law

Only Jesus Christ has lived a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time and never once disobeyed the law. Can't say that for everyone else. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23)

 

[mailmandan]

It is impossible to perfectly keep the law. Only Jesus did that, so you must be in Him to satisfy the law's requirements.

If you are unsaved it is impossible to keep the law perfectly. If you are saved you are in Christ, who never broke the law. Therefore you are judged innocent and are "right" in God's eyes. Nothing more needs to be said.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. :)

 

[Robert Gwin]

This is self-contradictory. Christians are released from the law. Therefore we are not under any obligation to keep any of them. You're either under the law or under grace (in Christ). You can't be both.

1 Jn 5:3 sir. We do still have commandments, many same, some differing laws. Obedience to those requirements is necessary for salvation. Have you ever seen a time in which God's people did not have any regulations?

 

[Jim B]

Hi Steve, some do believe that Christians have a license to sin, however there are rules and regulations for Christians as well, simply a different set of laws, that we are expected to obey. You made a valid point however, the desire, the law covenant for God's people was kind of like a forced service, whereas all Christians are voluntary in serving. Most of us have not been born again, but all Christians are under the same laws.

If you haven't been "born again", i.e., born of the Holy Spirit, then you are not a Christian.

 

[Jim B]

1 Jn 5:3 sir. We do still have commandments, many same, some differing laws. Obedience to those requirements is necessary for salvation. Have you ever seen a time in which God's people did not have any regulations?

Taking a single verse out of context proves absolutely nothing. It is not necessary to obey any laws to be saved.

Romans 7:1-6, "Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law is lord over a person as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of the marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she is joined to another man, she is not an adulteress. So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

Galatians 5:4, "You who are trying to be declared righteous by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace!"

Ephesians 2:4-10, "But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, to demonstrate in the coming ages the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast. For we are his creative work, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we can do them."

Read your Bible!!!!!

 

[Davy]

You've had the truth adequately explained to you. If you want to believe Paul spent the whole of his christian life sold as a slave to sin, he couldn't do the good he wanted to do only the evil he did not want to do, fine, go ahead.

That's twisting Paul's words even again... showing you don't have a clue what Paul was teaching.

Paul simply recognized that NO ONE but Jesus Christ can be literally perfect... without sin while in the flesh. That doesn't mean Paul nor any of Christ's servants cannot do what He sets out for us to accomplish. But it does mean a struggle in doing it though. And it mean at times, we ALL will still slip up in future sin, no matter how hard we try not to. The matter is that it's little slip ups and that we repent of it.

So really, Apostle Paul's Message to Christians in the Romans 7:14-25 verses is for those in Christ to not beat theirselves up over little slips in future sin, to repent and try not to do it again and ask forgiveness, and then get back to work serving Christ!

It's the occultists and those of eastern religion who think their flesh can be perfect for this world. That's what Buddhism is actually about, the false idea of being loosed from their so-called 'wheel of rebirth' after having lived a perfect life; they call it a state of Nirvana.

 

[Davy]

I repeat... Apparently your Bible doesn't contain this: "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own?" Matthew 7:1-3 Or if it does, why don't you accept it?

And you replied "That is what I did with YOUR words when you spoke AGAINST Bible Scripture. I 'discerned' your fruit, and it was rotten", thereby proving my point!

And I repeat YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR BIBLE, BUT JUST MAKE THINGS UP TO SUIT YOURSELF.

 

[Jim B]

And I repeat YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR BIBLE, BUT JUST MAKE THINGS UP TO SUIT YOURSELF.

I made this up? “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own?" Matthew 7:1-3

You are clearly living a strong delusion.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. :)

Amen! I believe Many have Overlooked Paul's "Simplicity In CHRIST!":

1) “Fulfill ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)

2) No obligation to a shadowy sabbath in those, so simply:

3) "found [resting] In Him (The Real Sabbath)," 24/7 and

Beyond Into Eternity! ​

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace... The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen! I believe Many have Overlooked Paul's "Simplicity In CHRIST!":

1) “Fulfill ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE thy neighbor
as thyself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)

2) No obligation to a shadowy sabbath in those, so simply:

3) "found [resting] In Him (The Real Sabbath)," 24/7 and

Beyond Into Eternity! ​

Precious friend(s), Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace... The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

Love does no evil towards man OR GOD . I think this generation needs to truly learn what Charity entails .
So allow me some biblical words .
EVEN if i gave all my goods to the poor , YET had not charity , OOOOOPS that dont and wont profit me a thing .
SO its obvious love entails more than just doing good works . LOVE rejoices in only ONE THING . TRUTH .
Loves would never rejoice in INQUITY . SO why do many now embrace EVIL , AS IN INQUITIES .
I see a generation that preaches do good to the poor , do good to all , YET IT EMBRACES SIN . I TELL US ALL
that generation DOES NOT HAVE CHARITY and THUS IT DOES NOT KNOW GOD .
SO this generation can go ahead and give all its goods to the poor , but it will hear only this at its end , I NEVER KNEW YA .
Cause if we dont have charity , GUESS what , WE DONT KNOW GOD .
And while Charity has charitable acts IN IT , The charitable acts alone aint evidence that one has charity at all .
DOES ONE LOVE THE TRUTH , DOES ONE LOVE WHAT GOD calls GOOD and hates what he calls evil .
AND if one has true charity , WELL THEN THE GOOD WORKS WILL ALSO BE PRODUCED .
SO the next time i hear anyone say , GAY MARRIAGE is LOVE , I WILL POINT THEM BACK TO CHARITY
And charity says , IT DOES NOT REJOICE in inquity , IT DOES NOT behave itself UNSEEMINGLY .
GO to romans one and see acts that are UNSEEMINGLY . YOU WILL FIND MAN WITH MAN AND WOMAN WITH WOMAN
as ONE OF THOSE VERY ACTS . SO folks need to stop hollering i am a hater just cause i expose EVERY SIN within the church
within brethren . FOR SIN is not SEEMINLY TO A BELIEVER , ITS UNSEEMINGLY TOWARDS GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

If i gave my body to be burned even , if i gave all my goods to the poor , YET HAD NOT CHARITY .
FOLKS , we better LEARN CHARITY . WE BETTER LEARN OUR BIBLES .

 

[stephen64]

That's twisting Paul's words even again... showing you don't have a clue what Paul was teaching.

Paul simply recognized that NO ONE but Jesus Christ can be literally perfect... without sin while in the flesh. That doesn't mean Paul nor any of Christ's servants cannot do what He sets out for us to accomplish. But it does mean a struggle in doing it though. And it mean at times, we ALL will still slip up in future sin, no matter how hard we try not to. The matter is that it's little slip ups and that we repent of it.

So really, Apostle Paul's Message to Christians in the Romans 7:14-25 verses is for those in Christ to not beat theirselves up over little slips in future sin, to repent and try not to do it again and ask forgiveness, and then get back to work serving Christ!

It's the occultists and those of eastern religion who think their flesh can be perfect for this world. That's what Buddhism is actually about, the false idea of being loosed from their so-called 'wheel of rebirth' after having lived a perfect life; they call it a state of Nirvana.

Rom 7:14-25 is all about sin and defeat, no victory at all. That isnt the christian life, and if Paul is speaking of his christian life, he is contradicting other statements he made that have been quoted to you already. You are under the misapprehension that if Paul is speaking of his life as a Pharisee, people are speaking of sinless perfection for the believer, that's simply not true. There is a world of difference between the person mentioned in those verses who only had sin and defeat, and sinless perfection. The christian is between the two extremes. So you are in error to say what you do