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No, I actually do not believe in OSAS. I believe that people can mature to the place where they ain't going back to the world in unbelief and a rejection of Christ under any circumstances whatsoever, even the threat of death. That's as close to an OSAS argument that I have at this time.
She has told me herself she does not believe anymore. Is she confusing doubt with actually rejecting Christ in unbelief? Only she knows that.
What I believe is that a believer can become an unbeliever and on that basis be rejected by God. No believing person is ever rejected by God. You have to go back to unbelief, or have never believed, in order to be rejected by God. As long as you are believing in the blood of Christ you are accepted by God. Living in sin is not what believing people do. Ex-believers live in sin. You have to go back to unbelief to end your relationship with God. Returning to a lifestyle of wanton, unrepentant, willful sin is the sign that you have done that. That is the sign of an unbeliever, not a believer. That is what the Bible says.
(Emphasis in red mine)
Can you make a case with Scripture of non-believers having spiritual gifts of the magnitude to make them capable of working miracles and casting out demons?
Demons do NOT believe in the blood of Christ. Saving faith - believing - implies placing one's trust and confidence in the sacrifice of Jesus to remove sin guilt. The demons do not have that faith. They merely know something is true. Better than you and I know it's true.
You said something about OSAS, at some point or another, or I wouldn't have included it in the post.
Specifically, no. I just know about Caiaphas's gift of prophecy. John 11:51. (Sorry, I said it was Ananais in my other post). The Bible does speak of lying wonders in 2 Thessalonians 2:9 and Revelation 13:14. So I do not rule out the possibility that the people Jesus never knew, spiritually, were operating in demonic signs and wonders. Or, they just think they were operating in gifts of the Spirit but really weren't because they weren't really saved. But that's not the important take away from the passage. The point is, these people did not live in obedience to God, which John says shows they aren't born again. But Jesus makes that clear anyway when he said he never knew them. These people were never saved.
I presently do not believe in OSAS. ESPECIALLY the new fangled Freegrace version of OSAS that says you can go back to unbelief and you are still saved. What a joke. I do believe, however, that believers can mature to the point that they would not turn on Christ even if you burned them at the stake. Jesus refers to them in the 4th type of soil in the Parable of the Sower. But to think that all believers are instantly of the 4th type of soil? No way. Not a chance. But we can mature to that place, for sure. And that's kind of the point of progressing in the faith as Paul talks about that to Timothy, I think it was.
No, it is not what the Bible says.
Well, hold on now.
I appreciate the discussion you are providing here. I am at work and I will address your posts. You're not getting what I'm saying straight. I'm not saying some of the thing you say I'm saying. I'll clear it up later. I make up time I spend on line at the end of the day. I'm out of credits. I have to get back to work or I'll be here all night, lol.
There are far too many warnings about avoiding temptations and sin in the Bible for that to be true. The Bible was not written to unbelievers. It was written to Christians. It is a handbook for how to live a successful Christian life.
If you'll just read the verse you'll see that the promise is for the believing person. The believing person's sins are covered. The believing person is the one who has passed from death to life and will not be condemned. Here is the verse in a literal translation:
We see here in this passage below that what's 'eternal' about eternal life is the fact that Jesus the High Priest always lives and his sacrifice is always on the altar in heaven and can, therefore, continually provide life to the person for whom he's ministering. This is in stark contrast to the Levitical priesthood and sacrifice whose benefit ended when the priest interceding for the sinner died, and when the sacrifice he offered to God was consumed on the altar. And so the eternality of salvation is in the fact that the Priest and his Sacrifice that provides that life is always doing that.
It does say that:
No! I'm not saying that. You have to go back to unbelief to live in willful, wanton, careless sin. As I've shown a born again person can't do that. They would have to go back to unbelief (relinquishing their born again status) to go back to their old life of sin. And, obviously, no unrepentant unbeliever is accepted by God.
It does. For the believer sin separates them from intimacy with God. For the unbeliever sin separates them from a relationship with God altogether. Like in a marriage, strife and distance damage the relationship, but only adultery and abandonment end it altogether (if that's what they want). And so it is in Christ. When we leave our wet towels on the floor of the bathroom or pass gas in the living room, spiritually speaking, it doesn't end our relationship with God. It puts it on ice but it does not end it. Only committing adultery or moving out of the house ends our relationship with God.
Yes, sin is held against us in the sense that I've just been speaking about. It damages intimacy with God. But it does not damage our righteous standing with God, because we are believers. The believing person has the ministry and sacrifice he believes and trusts in continually cleansing him of the legal guilt he would otherwise accrue every time he sinned (Hebrews 7:25). God deals with the intimacy and relational fallout from our sin, but the legal aspect of our relationship with God is firmly established in our oneness with God, just as that is true in a legal marriage.
