The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Davy]

Well, it didn’t flood in one day. It took a while for the waters from above and below to amass into a flood.
It also took them time to abate.

That's right, and a look back to that time of the flood of Noah's day, and the height of the waters stayed for 150 days (equals 5 months per the old Hebrew reckoning of 30 days for a month). In Revelation 12, Jesus used the metaphor of waters as a flood coming out of the serpent's (Satan) mouth after the symbolic woman, which is a pointer to the future great tribulation at the end of this world.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't understand your question. What do you mean that Matthew 24 was earlier?

It was decades before John wrote Revelation.

Jesus comes in Matthew 24, but he remains in the clouds and sends His angels.

So Jesus was sitting on the mount of Olives, then left to go to heaven to then descend from heaven at the second coming?

 

[Davy]

It was decades before John wrote Revelation.

So Jesus was sitting on the mount of Olives, then left to go to heaven to then descend from heaven at the second coming?

Leave out Bible much?

Zechariah 14 declares the day of Jesus' future coming, with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from, bringing all His saints with Him.

So the idea that He hangs in the clouds at His coming is a FALSE doctrine from men, and is NOT written in God's Word.

 

[Taken]

Nice. Not one bit of thought or logic to draw any conclusion.
SIMPLE LOGIC.

If you are attempting to prove spiritual things with mindful logic...
You have failed before you begin.

Scripture is about TRUTH, not Logical conclusions picking between THAT AND THAT.

I’ll stick with the TRUTH....and you can mindfully waver about between this and that.

BTW...you might want to reconsider YOUR MINDFUL SIMPLE LOGIC!

Rom 8
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Taken]

Well, it didn’t flood in one day. It took a while for the waters from above and below to amass into a flood.
It also took them time to abate.

TRUE.
And all the while the ones ON the face of the earth were being Destroyed....the ONLY ones saved were NOT on the face of the earth.

 

[The Light]

If you are attempting to prove spiritual things with mindful logic...
You have failed before you begin.

Scripture is about TRUTH, not Logical conclusions picking between THAT AND THAT.

I’ll stick with the TRUTH....and you can mindfully waver about between this and that.

BTW...you might want to reconsider YOUR MINDFUL SIMPLE LOGIC!

Rom 8
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Please. Your lack of simple logic is why you don't understand. The cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars mark the coming of Jesus to the clouds at the sixth seal.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord when the 7th trumpet sounds, LOGICALLY should tell you that Jesus has returned and Armageddon has happened. Jesus has set up Him kingdom on earth. SIMPLE LOGIC.

Just apply common sense. No need to make anything up.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. The phrase, just apply common sense, sounds completely out of place in this particular thread, or in any conversation about Revelation, really. I mean, some common sense is needed but…

 

[Taken]

So the idea that He hangs in the clouds at His coming is a FALSE doctrine from men, and is NOT written in God's Word.

Pages missing from your Bible?...aw

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
[15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
[17] And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
[18] And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
[19] And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
[20] And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

 

[Taken]

Please. Your lack of simple logic is why you don't understand. The cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars mark the coming of Jesus to the clouds at the sixth seal.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord when the 7th trumpet sounds, LOGICALLY should tell you that Jesus has returned and Armageddon has happened. Jesus has set up Him kingdom on earth. SIMPLE LOGIC.

Just apply common sense. No need to make anything up.

Okay, use your mindful common sense, logical conclusions to make up words and pretend they are scripture...
Doesn’t affect me one iota, what you do.

 

[Timtofly]

The Son of man came to earth.
The Son of man shall return to earth.
Rev 6 is not the return of the Son of man.
Rev 6 is the Lambs Wrath sent down from Heaven.

There is no mention of wrath sent down.

Only the angels and Jesus as Prince coming to the Mount of Olives. At that point heaven is dissolved per 2 Peter 3. All on earth can see God's face, and the GWT from earth all the way up into the firmament.

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

The day of judgment came. The wrath would happen under the Trumpets and Thunders. They were not all dead and judged. They were hiding like Adam and Eve did, when God showed up.

 

[Taken]

There is no mention of wrath sent down.

Only the angels and Jesus as Prince coming to the Mount of Olives. At that point heaven is dissolved per 2 Peter 3. All on earth can see God's face, and the GWT from earth all the way up into the firmament.

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

The day of judgment came. The wrath would happen under the Trumpets and Thunders. They were not all dead and judged. They were hiding like Adam and Eve did, when God showed up.

Obviously you did not comprehend ...
God gets angry.
Gods anger becomes His Wrath.
He Wrath provokes Him to act.
His Act is sending His Tribulation down upon the earth and UH, if you are upon the Earth...you shall suffer His Wrath and His Tribulation.

ENJOY.

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously you did not comprehend ...
God gets angry.
Gods anger becomes His Wrath.
He Wrath provokes Him to act.
His Act is sending His Tribulation down upon the earth and UH, if you are upon the Earth...you shall suffer His Wrath and His Tribulation.

ENJOY.

At the Second Coming all on earth will see who is angry. It will not be hidden or secret. It will be sudden and unexpected.

 

[Taken]

At the Second Coming all on earth will see who is angry. It will not be hidden or secret. It will be sudden and unexpected.

And what is your point? Are you going to be on earth during ANY portion of the Tribulation that comes down from Heaven...seals, trumps, vials?

 

[Timtofly]

And what is your point? Are you going to be on earth during ANY portion of the Tribulation that comes down from Heaven...seals, trumps, vials?

The church will not be on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. The point is that Jesus as Prince along with the angels will be on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. This is the final harvest. Matthew 13. Matthew 25.

 

[The Light]

Well, it didn’t flood in one day. It took a while for the waters from above and below to amass into a flood.
It also took them time to abate.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT that Noah, his family, and all the animals were in the ark 7 days before the flood.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke

At the Second Coming all on earth will see who is angry. It will not be hidden or secret. It will be sudden and unexpected.

21:25-27KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[The Light]

Lol. The phrase, just apply common sense, sounds completely out of place in this particular thread, or in any conversation about Revelation, really. I mean, some common sense is needed but…

If you want to understand revelation, you need logic and common sense. For example.....

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This verse says that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That should tell you that Jesus has returned and set up his kingdom on earth. Armageddon has already happened.

Just logic and common sense.

 

[Truth7t7]

Gods anger becomes His Wrath.
He Wrath provokes Him to act.
His Act is sending His Tribulation down upon the earth and UH, if you are upon the Earth...you shall suffer His Wrath and His Tribulation.

ENJOY.

Scripture below clearly shows the sealed believers are protected from the torment of five months, your claim above in bold red is "False"

Revelation 9:1-6KJV
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

[Taken]

Scripture below clearly shows the sealed believers are protected from the torment of five months, your claim above in bold red is "False"...

No my claim is not false. The scripture you quoted says nothing about “SEALED BELIEVERS”.

Revelation 9:1-6KJV
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

WHO IS SEALED??

Rev 7:
[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Are you one of the 144,000 virgin tribesmen of the children of Israel?

OOPS...false accusation.

 

[ewq1938]

If you want to understand revelation, you need logic and common sense. For example.....

Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

This verse says that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That should tell you that Jesus has returned and set up his kingdom on earth. Armageddon has already happened.

Just logic and common sense.

Bad logic. Armageddon happens AFTER that, to destroy the army and the former leaders of the kingdoms of the world.