Are ghosts real?

[farouk]

1 Sam.28: 5- 8
Breaking the Law of Moses,Saul sought out prophesy for his final end. Therefore HE sought out a witch....Ex.22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live,

1 Sam.28:11
Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up for THEE? And he said,Bring me up Samuel.
And when the woman saw SAMUEL,she cried with a loud voice: ..........[.then she knew he was king Saul ]
14...,.., and Saul perceived it was Samuel by description,
15 AND SAMUEL SAID TO SAUL,WHY HAST THOU DISQUIETED ME,TO BRING ME UP?


The word says Samuel so I believe Samuel.
At this time apparently the souls did not return to God.
Remember when Jesus was 3 days into his death,the word says he preached to the prisoners.
1 Peter3:19
Mat.27:50-53
When Jesus gave up the GHOST, the veil in the temple was rent from top to bottom......
52. And the graves were opened; and MANY bodies of the saints which SLEPT AROSE,
53. And CAME OUT OF THE GRAVES AFTER HIS RESURRECTION,AND WENT INTO THE HOLY CITY, AND APPESRED UNTO .....MANY.

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Far better and essential not to dabble in spirits...... Colossians 2.9: "In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily": all the believer's sufficiency is of Him.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Those who so worry about others choice of where to spend eternity need to check their own destiny.

Scripture tells me to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, a workman that needeth not be ashamed but rightly dividing the Word of God verifying spiritual with spiritual.
For those who are LED of the Spirit are the children of God!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I DO NOT dabble in anything outside of God and his Holy Spirit inspired word. That said , I believe it and do NOT try to change it to fit my small mindedness either !

I cannot tolerated" know it all's or I think I know something you dont's"

Furthermore from reading ppl's post I'm pretty sure myself and a few others are the only ones who KNOW WHAT THE FULLNES OF GOD really is !

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Try to focus!

The inspired writer said that it was Samuel!

“And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?” (1 Samuel 28:15)

You can’t proceed with your assumptions beyond this sentence. There’s no debate here.

1 Samuel 29:3-20 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel. Saul desperately wanted to believe that it was Samuel and so let himself be deceived. Verses 6, 7 of 1 Samuel 29 make it clear that God wouldn't speak with Saul. Alsoat 1 Samuel 15: and at Verse 3 says that Samuel was dead and buried.

Try to focus!

The inspired writer said that it was Samuel!

“And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?” (1 Samuel 28:15)

You can’t proceed with your assumptions beyond this sentence. There’s no debate here.

At 1 Samuel 15: 34,35 it says that the prophet Samuel didn't speak or have anything to do with King Saul right up to his death.
So these scriptures show that because YHWH God had rejected Saul as King because of his disobedience the prophet Samuel would not associate with King Saul, he wouldn't even speak with him. The prophet Samuel died never speaking to King Saul or associating with him again.

It says in verses 4-6 of 1 Samuel 28 that God wouldn't speak to King Saul either in dreams, or by Urim, or through the prophets.
But you believe because of the woman who practices spiritism saying she saw someone who appeared like the prophet Samuel, and because of the description the woman gave to King Saul of the person she saw and then King Saul concludes by her description that it was the prophet Samuel, you are saying that God was saying it was the prophet Samuel. You can teach people that it was actually the prophet Samuel all you want to but you and others who will believe that lie, will be calling God a liar and that he approves talking to the dead. By believing this was actually the prophet Samuel you will be teaching people that God approves of associating with people who practices spiritism or talking to the dead. You also will be teaching others that a person doesn't truly die but that person continues living. The scripture at Genesis 2:7 is very accurate and it shows that when it comes to human beings what makes them living persons is the combination of God taking dust from the ground and forming it into a flesh and blood body and then blowing the breath of life(spirit) into that flesh and blood body is what makes him a living person. So for you or anyone to say this person that King Saul said was the prophet Samuel, isn't true, it contradicts Genesis 2:7. Scripture doesn't contradict scripture, what people say is true but isn't supported by scripture are those that contradict scripture. This wasn't the prophet Samuel that King Saul spoke to.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 Samuel 29:3-11 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel

THE INSPIRED WRITER SAID IT WAS SAMUEL!!!

 

[Pearl]

demons are real ghosts are not.

Who knows? perhaps they are, certainly the Holy Ghost is real so maybe there are other real ones too. We know very little of the supernatural/spirit world.

 

[MatthewG]

Ghost is not used in the Bible at all, in the Literal Translation or Youngs Literal Translation.

It is used 108 times, in the King James Version. Which is actually - Spirit - pneuma.

Ghost defined :

ghost | ɡōst | nounan apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living, typically as a nebulous image: the building is haunted by the ghost of a monk | figurative : the ghosts of past deeds. • a faint trace of something: she gave the ghost of a smile. • a faint secondary image produced by a fault in an optical system or on a cathode ray screen, e.g., by faulty television reception or internal reflection in a mirror or camera.

verb 1 [with object] act as ghostwriter of (a work): his memoirs were smoothly ghosted by a journalist.

2 [no object, with adverbial of direction] glide smoothly and effortlessly: they ghosted up the river.

3 [with object] end a personal relationship with (someone) by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication: I didn't want to ghost her, so we ended up having ‘the talk’ and it was horrible | being ghosted is one of the toughest ways to be dumped | [no object] : people who ghost are primarily focused on avoiding their own emotional discomfort.

--- Having gone through life at some point in time going to graveyards, abandon houses, abandon hospital, playing with ouija board... I simply do not believe that ghost exist.

However Spirits do exist like school spirit - Dark forces still are in the world like "Spirit of greed", "Spirit of manipulation", "Spirit of Hatred", "Spirit of Murder" - which all resides in our hearts.

Sometimes there were people who were demon-possessed but I believe Satan and his Angel was done away with.

But there was also people who had unclean spirits which Jesus had also cast out.

KJV Search Results - Unclean Spirit
13 Verses Found, 26 Matches
Zec 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mar 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,

Mar 1:26 And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.

Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an uncleanspirit,

Mar 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Mar 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

Luk 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

Luk 8:29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

Luk 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

THE INSPIRED WRITER SAID IT WAS SAMUEL!!!

No the the inspired writer said that the woman described to king Saul who she was seeing and king Saul concluded by the description she gave him that it was the prophet Samuel. I'm not going to disagree with Scripture just because your words are in bold high cased letters. Samuel had nothing to do with those who talked to the dead when he was alive because God said such people who practice spiritism belong to Satan. You can deny this all you want but the scriptures are clear that God spoke against anyone who practiced talking too the dead and told his people not to associate with them. Why would you believe that God who the scriptures show wouldn't talk to King Saul through any of the ways that God viewed appropriate but he would talk to king Saul through an inappropriate way of communication, one that was a demonic way of communication?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

No the the inspired writer said that the woman described to king Saul who she was seeing

Oh for goodness sake.

Who wrote the red text below?

“And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?” (1 Samuel 28:15)

The writer says that Samuel spoke to Saul! Not that Saul thought it was Samuel!

You think the narrator lied to us??!!

Good grief!!!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This is Just your carnal mind working against you. You are frowardly the decider of what is appropriate even when the scripture disturbs your way of thinking…

No I'm not, you are saying that it's ok to associate with those who talk to the dead even though God's word speaks out against it. You're saying this because you're saying that God used the prophet Samuel to talk to king Saul by using a person who talks to the dead. A person who talks to the dead wasn't approved of by God. Such people who practiced any form of spiritism, which includes those who spoke to the dead will not be in God's kingdom.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you are saying that it's ok to associate with those who talk to the dead

Outrageous!

I’m saying no such thing!

I am just telling you what the scriptures are saying. And the scriptures aren’t even saying that it is okay to associate with such things as you say.

How do you equate a scriptural narrative of an event to an approval of such an event??!!

 

[amigo de christo]

Try to focus!

The inspired writer said that it was Samuel!

“And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?” (1 Samuel 28:15)

You can’t proceed with your assumptions beyond this sentence. There’s no debate here.

Watch . Even with the simple truth you just said , Ye cannot persaude that man to abandon anything his false religoin has taught him .
THEY absolutely wont do it . They act as though their religion and its leaders are GOD HIMSELF . Sad , but TRUE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Outrageous!

I’m saying no such thing!

I am just telling you what the scriptures are saying. And the scriptures aren’t even saying that it is okay to associate with such things as you say.

How do you equate a scriptural narrative of an event to an approval of such an event??!!

Folks will accuse us of anything . THEY refuse to abandon their god of their own man made religion .
As for the lambs we gonna stick to the bible they can keep all their stuff .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Folks will accuse us of anything . THEY refuse to abandon their god of their own man made religion .
As for the lambs we gonna stick to the bible they can keep all their stuff .

Amen brother!

If division arises over clear teachings in scripture, no wonder many more come about over unclear ones…

 

[amigo de christo]

THE INSPIRED WRITER SAID IT WAS SAMUEL!!!

AND IF THE BIBLE SAID IT , WE BELIEVE IT . They can keep all their vainity of false teachings and traditions .
SEE this is how a simple child of God would see it . IF THE BIBLE SAID IT , BELIEVE IT .
AND it said SAMUEL SAID .....................exactly .
SEE if it was a demon the bible would have made it clear . It would have said a demon arose to decieve .
BUT it said and SAMUEL SAID . SO if it said it , WE BELIEVE IT . END of discussion . This is why i have
fled these tabernacles of men gone wrong . THEY always try and twist the bible to make it fit THEIR OWN TEACHING .
Instead of simply reading it and believing it . I shun their false doctrine . WE STICKING to the BIBLE . AMEN .

 

[RedFan]

Smelik, “The Witch of Endor: 1 Samuel 28 in Rabbinic and Christian Exegesis Till 800 A.D,” Vigiliae Christianae, Vol.33 No. 2 (June 1979), has done the survey: Justin Martyr, Origen, Ambrose, and Augustine, among others, argued that Samuel did appear to Saul, while Tertullian, Eustathius of Antioch, Ephrem, Gregory of Nyssa, Evagrius Ponticus, Jerome, and Ambrosiaster, among others, argued that a demon in the appearance of Samuel had actually appeared.

If these luminaries disagree, is there really much chance of securing agreement on this forum? I doubt it!

 

[amigo de christo]

Smelik, “The Witch of Endor: 1 Samuel 28 in Rabbinic and Christian Exegesis Till 800 A.D,” Vigiliae Christianae, Vol.33 No. 2 (June 1979), has done the survey: Justin Martyr, Origen, Ambrose, and Augustine, among others, argued that Samuel did appear to Saul, while Tertullian, Eustathius of Antioch, Ephrem, Gregory of Nyssa, Evagrius Ponticus, Jerome, and Ambrosiaster, among others, argued that a demon in the appearance of Samuel had actually appeared.

If these luminaries disagree, is there really much chance of securing agreement on this forum? I doubt it!

Since when do we let men decide for us . I say IF the bible said it , THEN that is enough for me . Let the Ever so clever and wise scholars
destroy themselves . To me its real simple . IF BIBLE SAID IT , BELIEVE IT .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Justin Martyr, Origen, Ambrose, and Augustine, among others, argued that Samuel did appear to Saul, while Tertullian, Eustathius of Antioch, Ephrem, Gregory of Nyssa, Evagrius Ponticus, Jerome, and Ambrosiaster, among others, argued that a demon in the appearance of Samuel had actually appeared.

So you would let a multitude of men held in high regard persuade you to not believe what an inspired writer wrote??!!

You would be wise to take heed to this infallible wisdom:

“Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.” (Psalms 62:9)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

SEE if it was a demon the bible would have made it clear

Amen!

You are absolutely correct @amigo de christo

 

[RedFan]

So you would let a multitude of men held in high regard persuade you to not believe what an inspired writer wrote??!!

You would be wise to take heed to this infallible wisdom:

“Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.” (Psalms 62:9)

I haven't said which camp I fall into -- only that it's a hotly debated topic unlikely to be resolved here.

This was a big deal in late antiquity. To quote from Trigg, “Eustathius of Antioch’s Attack on Origen: What Is at Issue in an Ancient Controversy?” Journal of Religion, Vol. 75, No. 2 (April 1995):

“Although to all appearances it was a straightforward historical narrative, it raised disturbing doctrinal and moral questions. Was a departed prophet subject, against his will, to a medium (έϒϒαστρίνθος in the LXX) and her presumed demonic accomplices? Could a righteous prophet be expecting a wicked king to join him shortly in hell? Could necromancy provide accurate knowledge of the future, and if so might it not be permissible to resort to it?”

“The passage 1 Sam. 28 assumed such importance because it challenged early Christian interpreters to explain an inspired text convincingly while at the same time being faithful to their conviction that all of Scripture was divinely inspired and consistent with the church’s rule of faith. Such interpreters could not ascribe the anomalies of the text to the limitations of an earlier time with a less differentiated understanding of the soul’s destiny. For them realistic narrative implied, and could scarcely be distinguished from, factual information about the past. . . For us, by contrast (unless we are Fundamentalists), the literal sense of biblical narrative does not necessarily imply factuality.”

Maybe you don't care what anyone says if it contradicts your reading of Scripture. So, what if other Scriptural passages contradict your reading? Luke 16:26 suggests that it could not have happened as 1 Samuel 28 described. (I'm not the first to notice this. Gregory of Nyssa relied on Luke 16:26 for his conclusion that the OT story couldn’t have been accurate.)