In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

[heartwashed]

I think death means death and life means life. I also think a second death means a second death and eternal life means eternal life. When you say there is no such thing as a first or second death and death actually means living forever, you have muddied it all so much that it makes no sense. Words have to mean something or nothing can be conveyed. That’s how you wind up with blank stares and confusion when you ask someone to define what the word “woman” means.

Yes, words mean something.

For example, the word "death" means separation.

Physical death is separation of the soul from the body.

Spiritual death is separation of man's spirit from God's Spirit.

Thus, man can be conscious of torment in spiritual death.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, words mean something.

For example, the word "death" means separation.

Physical death is separation of the soul from the body.

Spiritual death is separation of man's spirit from God's Spirit.

Thus, man can be conscious of torment in spiritual death.

I don’t believe we are physically born as eternal beings. I believe there’s only one way to eternal life and it’s to be given and receive Gods Spirit. And because I do not think my earthly parents passed on eternal life to me at my physical birth, I cannot arrive at the same conclusion as you arrive at about conscious and eternal torment of humans.

I also don’t think you arrived at what you believe by the Holy Spirit and the words God gave us. I think a man taught it to you.

 

[heartwashed]

I don’t believe we are physically born as eternal beings. I believe there’s only one way to eternal life and it’s to be given and receive Gods Spirit. And because I do not think my earthly parents passed on eternal life to me at my physical birth, I cannot arrive at the same conclusion as you arrive at about conscious and eternal torment of humans.

I also don’t think you arrived at what you believe by the Holy Spirit and the words God gave us. I think a man taught it to you.

I think that you are in denial of what is evident to you; that mankind has an eternal soul.

Ecc 3:11 (nkjv), He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think that you are in denial of what is evident to you; that mankind has an eternal soul.

Ecc 3:11 (nkjv), He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Putting a desire in a mans heart to not want to die is not the same thing as a man not dying.

 

[heartwashed]

Putting a desire in a mans heart to not want to die is not the same thing as a man not dying.

Death can be defined as separation.

Physical death means that the soul is separated from the body.

Spiritual death means that the spirit is separated from God's Spirit.

That there can be consciousness in spiritual death, I think is a given.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Death can be defined as separation.

Physical death means that the soul is separated from the body.

Spiritual death means that the spirit is separated from God's Spirit.

That there can be consciousness in spiritual death, I think is a given.

mmm….I think this is just a repeat of that same old hiss in the ear of “you shall not surely die.” I believe there really is a doubly dead, which is physical death, then resurrection, then a second death in the lake of fire, and it’s why Jesus said, let the dead bury their dead.

So He called the dead men dead and He also called the living men burying them dead.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Death can be defined as separation.

Physical death means that the soul is separated from the body.

Spiritual death means that the spirit is separated from God's Spirit.

That there can be consciousness in spiritual death, I think is a given.

Yes, I see that you think it’s a given. I disagree.

 

[heartwashed]

mmm….I think this is just a repeat of that same old hiss in the ear of “you shall not surely die.” I believe there really is a doubly dead, which is physical death, then resurrection, then a second death in the lake of fire, and it’s why Jesus said, let the dead bury their dead.

So He called the dead men dead and He also called the living men burying them dead.

So, when a person dies the first time, they do not cease to exist and neither do they go unconscious.

What makes you think that that will happen the second time?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What makes you think that that will happen the second time?

5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power,

Then, a thousand years later, is the second resurrection and then we read this at the very end of that chapter: 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[heartwashed]

5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power,

and...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

and...?

I added a paragraph in anticipation of your and.

 

[heartwashed]

5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power,

Then, a thousand years later, is the second resurrection and then we read this at the very end of that chapter: 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

and...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

and...?

lol. Okay. I don’t understand everything though.

So in the first resurrection and judgement, it’s those who have received Gods Spirit and therefore have eternal life in them. This judgement is to a “well done” or to shame and dishonor/the outer darkness. In a great house there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. This is not a judgement of life or death because they have eternal life in them.

The second resurrection and judgement a thousand years later is to life or the second death.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am hoping that the outer darkness is a purgatorial type place for the length of only a thousand years. Otherwise, it would be a fate WORSE than the second death.

I do have a parable I think supports that.

 

[heartwashed]

lol. Okay. I don’t understand everything though.

So in the first resurrection and judgement, it’s those who have received Gods Spirit and therefore have eternal life in them. This judgement is to a “well done” or to shame and dishonor/the outer darkness. In a great house there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. This is not a judgement of life or death because they have eternal life in them.

The second resurrection and judgement a thousand years later is to life or the second death.

Death being defined as separation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Death being defined as separation.

In the first resurrection, yes, separated to the outer darkness. The first judgement is to honor or dishonor, not life or death.

 

[heartwashed]

In the first resurrection, yes, separated to the outer darkness. The first judgement is to honor or dishonor, not life or death.

No, those who are raised in the first resurrection are not separated from the Lord.

Those who will be cast into the lake of fire, certainly will be separated.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No, those who are raised in the first resurrection are not separated from the Lord.

Those who will be cast into the lake of fire, certainly will be separated.

Some are thrown into the outer darkness.It makes me queasy. I’ve searched and searched but cannot find any verse that says the outer darkness is eventually thrown into the lake of fire.

As for the second death being not death (for humans) but rather an eternal life, I disagree and have explained why.

 

[heartwashed]

The second death is death for humans. It is defined as eternal separation from God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Some are thrown into the outer darkness.It makes me queasy. I’ve searched and searched but cannot find any verse that says the outer darkness is eventually thrown into the lake of fire.

As for the second death being not death (for humans) but rather an eternal life, I disagree and have explained why.

I think the outer darkness is the prison the man in the parable is thrown into who didn’t extend mercy after his own debt was forgiven. I think it is the place of more stripes rather than fewer.