Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Rich R]

It was one of the "gifts" given to anointed Christians in the first century sir. It is no longer a gift since those gifts came to their end. It had its place in our history, but is no longer needed.

I'm pretty sure you are talking about 1 Corinthians 13:10,

1 Cor 13:10,

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
​

But verse 12 is highly relevent,

1 Cor 13:12,

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

If perfection is already come, then it must be said that we've come face to face with God and we now know ourselves as He knows us, that we are no longer looking through a dark glass, that we are no longer deceived by the devil. I don't think that is even close to the case.

That perfection will not come until Jesus returns. Until then we will be attacked daily by the devil and his system. That did not stop at some uncertain date in the first century. He is always seeking who he may devour and we dare not rely on our own power to resist those attacks. God gave us the tools in the gift of holy spirit, but it's totally up to us to utilize those tools, i.e., the nine manifestations, or not. Too bad he's deceived many who either do not know about the manifestations or who refuse to operate them in love. It's about all he has left. He knows very well when that which is perfect will arrive and he's doing his best to make the world miserable until that day when he will finally be defeated and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

More nonsense from Rich R. Now notice this verse carefully:

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. (1 Cor 12:4)
Διαιρέσεις δὲ χαρισμάτων* εἰσίν τὸ δὲ αὐτὸ πνεῦμα·

*Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.

In the context of the above verse and the term "gifts" we find this in verse 10: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

That word "tongues" should have been "languages" since only foreign languages need interpretation. So the SPIRITUAL GIFT of tongues is the ability to speak a foreign language supernaturally -- never having learned it normally. See Acts 2.

It is @Rich R who is astute, showing me something I hadn't seen, though I'm not sure it is an important point seeing as 1 Corinthians 14:1 and 12 would include tongues in "spiritual gifts." But I do like that he shows he is actually thinking about the accuracy of the Word. Enoch, you cut off the rest of the passage which is ridiculous if you are trying to make any type of point. And as usual you only post to provoke, which is the opposite of anything spiritual.

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Whether we call tongues a sign or gift or manifestation or an authority, the point is they all come not from us but from the HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@Rich R

So besides semantics, what are you really saying? You should know that they all are spiritual gifts. And they are all spiritual manifestations. The only true point is they are all from the same Spirit.

 

[Enoch111]

It is @Rich R who is astute. Enoch, you cut off the rest of the passage which is ridiculous if you are trying to make any type of point.

You just made my point, so why did you call my post "ridiculous"? Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder (which is certainly not from the Holy Spirit).

By quoting the entire passage, we see that tongues are indeed spiritual gifts. "Manifestation"* simply means that they are in fact manifested -- shown outwardly. So it is the gift which is always manifested -- shown outwardly, exhibited, disclosed -- regardless of which gift it is.

Strong's Concordance
phanerósis: manifestation
Original Word: φανέρωσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phanerósis
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er'-o-sis)
Definition: manifestation
Usage: a manifestation, disclosure.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You just made my point, so why did you call my post "ridiculous"? Or do you just have a chip on your shoulder (which is certainly not from the Holy Spirit).

By quoting the entire passage, we see that tongues are indeed spiritual gifts. "Manifestation"* simply means that they are in fact manifested -- shown outwardly. So it is the gift which is always manifested -- shown outwardly, exhibited, disclosed -- regardless of which gift it is.

Strong's Concordance
phanerósis: manifestation
Original Word: φανέρωσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: phanerósis
Phonetic Spelling: (fan-er'-o-sis)
Definition: manifestation
Usage: a manifestation, disclosure.

You are both hung up with semantics, but only you post to provoke. Why do you always want to come off like that?

 

[Enoch111]

You are both hung up with semantics, but only you post to provoke. Why do you always want to come off like that?

Yes indeed. It is about semantics, and the word "ridiculous" did not apply to my post at all. So you should really be apologizing, not telling me that I am provoking.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes indeed. It is about semantics, and the word "ridiculous" did not apply to my post at all. So you should really be apologizing, not telling me that I am provoking.

But that was your obvious purpose so no apology is warranted, because you plainly said, "More nonsense from Rich R."

Why do you always act so carnally, instead of lovingly. It is my duty as a sister to not let you get away with that attitude from the pit.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It may come as somewhat of a surprise to most Christians to learn that the scriptures never call tongues a gift. In every English and Greek version of the scriptures that I know of, tongues is unambiguously called a manifestation. A manifestation is not the same thing as a gift.

Nothing but more silly religious "Word games"!!!

Sure the Spirit is a "gift", just like being Born Again.

AND the "Charisma" are gifts also - i.e. YOU didn't EARN 'em, and unless the Holy Spirit "gifts you" by supplying with the words to speak "Prophesy", Interpret, Speak in tongues, Minister healings, etc - you couldn't do any of it.

You want to use the "buzz word" Manifestsions, (or "Empowerments", or "Charimas") then knock yourself out - nobody cares, and we all "get it".

I'll just continue to call 'em "GIFTS" since that's just as good a term as any - and the "list of 9" in 1 Cor 12 isn't "inclusive" if you pay attention, it's really a mixture of categories, and specific empowerments.

 

[Hidden In Him]

As you correctly pointed out, verse 4 speaks of gifts. However, that is not the only spiritual matter Paul talks about. Verse 5 talks about the spiritual matter of administrations. Verse 6 talks about yet another spiritual matter, namely operations. Finally we come to verse 7 which talks about the spiritual matter of manifestations, followed by verses 8-10 which enumerates those manifestations. Guess what we find there. That's right...tongues is listed as one of the nine manifestations.Tongues is not a gift, an administration, nor an operation. It is a manifestation.

To summarize, there are 4 different "pneumatikos" addressed in 1 Corinthians 12:1-10;

1) gifts
2) administrations
3) operations
4) manifestations

In the spirit of love, I won't say your reply is more nonsense, but I will say you you don't fully understand this section of scriptures. But no problem, you can always learn and change. I do that all the time and it's not that bad. In fact, it's always liberating to let go of false doctrines and replace them with the truth. It's quite liberating. Give it a try!

No, LoL.

Hello, Rich. Let me ask you a simple question here: They are accurately called "gifts" in the Greek of 1 Corinthians 12:4 because they cannot be obtained by natural means. They must be given by God. How does one manifest or operate in unknown tongues as the Spirit leads unless it is given by God?

 

[Hidden In Him]

It may come as somewhat of a surprise to most Christians to learn that the scriptures never call tongues a gift. In every English and Greek version of the scriptures that I know of, tongues is unambiguously called a manifestation. A manifestation is not the same thing as a gift.

Good luck…I have been trying to teach this for years, but people have a tendency to read what they believe rather than what is written.

The word “gift” that has been added in 1Co 12:1, 13:2, 14:1 &14:12 has certainly contributed to this error. And although the KJV and NKJV do have this word in italic (indicating it was added) most all of the other versions give no indication that it is not God breathed.

Notice what is left out of the list of gifts on Romans 12

If I may politely ask, gentlemen, how many of you actually speak in tongues?

 

[ChristisGod]

Not I

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not I

Ok, LoL.

I'll wait to see if the others wish to respond first : )

 

[ChristisGod]

Ok, LoL.

I'll wait to see if the others wish to respond first : )

It was not for a lack of trying and praying for it as a young believer in the early 80’s.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

If I may politely ask, gentlemen, how many of you actually speak in tongues?

No need to be "polite" it's not anything to be "Sensitive" about, y'all. Just a normal part of the Spirit Filled life (to use Pentecostal vernacular).

I've "spoken in tongues" for 49 years. NEVER was burdened to deliver a "Message in tongues" to a group, so in answer to Paul's "Ministry question" No I don't speak in tongues - as a ministry gifting. I have, however, Interpreted Tongues in meetings, as the Holy Spirit gave utterance, and much more rarely delivered Prophesy.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No need to be "polite" it's not anything to be "Sensitive" about, y'all. Just a normal part of the Spirit Filled life.

I've "spoken in tongues" for 49 years. NEVER was burdened to deliver a "Message in tongues" to a group, but have Interpreted Tongues, as the Holy Spirit gave utterance, and much more rarely delivered Prophesy.

Lot of things I used to get upset about, and then get impolite with people. Trying to change that the older I get. Trying to be more apt to teach, and with meekness. Though we can correct it, we can't stop false teaching. But we can appeal to those in a Spirit of Love to reconsider what it is they believe and teach, and hopefully lead them in another direction.

Congratulations of being able to interpret. Not many with that gift these days.

God bless,
- H

Btw. If I should go off on someone tomorrow, it won't cancel out what I was saying. I'm still a work in progress : )

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Lot of things I used to get upset about, and then get impolite with people. Trying to change that the older I get. Trying to be more apt to teach, and with meekness. Though we can correct it, we can't stop false teaching. But we can appeal to those in a Spirit of Love to reconsider what it is they believe and teach, and hopefully lead them in another direction.

Congratulations of being able to interpret. Not many with that gift these days.

God bless,
- H

Btw. If I should go off on someone tomorrow, it won't cancel out what I was saying. I'm still a work in progress : )

In our Assembly of God church in Duncanville, TX, Gifts such as tongues/interpretation/Prophesy are only allowed by agreement with the Sr.Pastor, who normally does any interpretation that is required - of course it's a BIG church (5-600) so I guess they do that to prevent confusion.

I recall a "hat trick" probably 20 years ago in a smaller meeting, when there was a "Tongue", and the fellow to my left stood and began to deliver the interpretation. But at the same time I was burdened to interpret. The first guy just stopped in mid message, and I immediately stood, and continued the message from where he'd left off, until I "ran out of words", whereupon the fellow on my immediate Right stood, and completed the message. That's never happened again.

 

[Dropship]

Paul was spot on-
"If the whole church speaks in tongues, won't a newcomer think you're out of your minds?
But if you all preach, he'll worship God (1 Corinthians 14:24)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You are endued with power from on high, like it or not. You can energize it or not. It's totally under your control. But I don't think it's talking about Luke Skywalker.

I like it! It is not under my control, it is given selectively, in a timely way, when it is needed by the Holy Spirit, Who decides when we need it. I notice you are trying painfully to ignore all the detailed characteristics and attributes that so define God in the Holy Spirit.

Where do the scriptures say tongues is a gift?

"... But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal.
For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:" 1 Cor. 12:7-10

When something is given to us, it is a gift. If you can't discern that, notice that faith is given to us. We all know faith is a gift. And then it clearly exclaims "gifts of healing", implying that everything in the passage are gifts.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," Eph. 2:8

 

[Tommy Cool]

If I may politely ask, gentlemen, how many of you actually speak in tongues?

I do ...have for many years. I was instructed ....(instructed is the wrong word) I learned of it from a book Called Power and (or in) Praise. I had never heard of tongues or heard it done previously, so I didn't have any preconceived idea or know what the heck to expect. The book just said (and I am sure I will butcher this) something to the effect of "you can speak this language ... accept Jesus as your savior and God will give you this ...just speak"
And so I did ...I spoke for a short time and stopped... started and stopped for almost an hour...I had no idea what this was about, but it was really cool ...So cool in fact, I went out (1:30 am) found a group of people I knew ....and they all spoke in tongues...
It took me a few years to learn the many benefits of tongues...but I do it daily in my private life, and in group meetings with interpretation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I recall a "hat trick" probably 20 years ago in a smaller meeting, when there was a "Tongue", and the fellow to my left stood and began to deliver the interpretation. But at the same time I was burdened to interpret. The first guy just stopped in mid message, and I immediately stood, and continued the message from where he'd left off, until I "ran out of words", whereupon the fellow on my immediate Right stood, and completed the message. That's never happened again.

Spirit-led!

This is a wonderful testimony, and exactly the way it should go in the churches. Being truly yielded to the Spirit of God is not just speaking when you are led, but NOT speaking when the Spirit says not to. I have been in services where the Spirit fells so strongly that no one dared utter a word for the better part of 15 minutes so as not to disturb the sanctity of His Presence. People praying, people reflecting, some with tears flowing down their cheeks. It was not communicated we should do so by anyone on the platform, it just happened, and when it happens you simply KNOW by the Spirit of God it's time to be silent. That's the way Spirit-led services are supposed to be, only it takes congregations awhile to get there. They come in with the world's distractions, and it often takes extended worship and prayer before they truly enter in as a congregation. Every time we entered into His Presence that strongly it was after times of very powerful worship