Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Hidden In Him]

I do ...have for many years. I was instructed ....(instructed is the wrong word) I learned of it from a book Called Power and (or in) Praise. I had never heard of tongues or heard it done previously, so I didn't have any preconceived idea or know what the heck to expect. The book just said (and I am sure I will butcher this) something to the effect of "you can speak this language ... accept Jesus as your savior and God will give you this ...just speak"
And so I did ...I spoke for a short time and stopped... started and stopped for almost an hour...I had no idea what this was about, but it was really cool ...So cool in fact, I went out (1:30 am) found a group of people I knew ....and they all spoke in tongues...
It took me a few years to learn the many benefits of tongues...but I do it daily in my private life, and in group meetings with interpretation.

Thank you for the response. Let me hear from Rich and I'll give you a reply.

In the meantime, God bless and welcome to Christianity Board. I hope you enjoy being a member here.
- H

 

[Hidden In Him]

Good luck…I have been trying to teach this for years, but people have a tendency to read what they believe rather than what is written.

The word “gift” that has been added in 1Co 12:1, 13:2, 14:1 &14:12 has certainly contributed to this error. And although the KJV and NKJV do have this word in italic (indicating it was added) most all of the other versions give no indication that it is not God breathed.

The word “spiritual” in 1Co 12:1 is the Greek word (pneumatikos) meaning “that which belongs to, is determined by, influenced by, or proceeds from the spirit” (spiritual matters). Which would have been a better choice… than gifts.


A gift is individually given….. and you do not have it unless someone gives it to you. (i.e. the gift of holy spirit) …….A manifestation is an evidence, a showing forth of something you already have.


The word manifestation is in the singular and it carries the definite article, which calls attention with special emphasis to a designated object.

Like a group of grapes, the manifestation of the spirit has nine evidences to be utilized at the discretion of the born again believe, at his (idios) will.

The gifts of healing is still in the group of the manifestation, but each healing is a gift, and yet a manifestation (evidence) of the spirit.

Until then, maybe you could give me what your response to Post #29 would be (even though it was directed to Rich). Seems to me we should refer to tongues as a spiritual gift, seeing as how it is most certainly not something we're born with.

God bless,
- H

 

[Tommy Cool]

Thank you for the response. Let me hear from Rich and I'll give you a reply.

In the meantime, God bless and welcome to Christianity Board. I hope you enjoy being a member here.
- H

Thank you ...I was a previous member several years ago....Just couldn't remember what user name was... possibly Artios1, but the email it was attached to was gone...
Happy to be back

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Paul was spot on-
"If the whole church speaks in tongues, won't a newcomer think you're out of your minds?
But if you all preach, he'll worship God (1 Corinthians 14:24)

That's the typical "All or nothing" cessationist reasoning.

 

[Tommy Cool]

Until then, maybe you could give me what your response to Post #29 would be (even though it was directed to Rich). Seems to me we should refer to tongues as a spiritual gift, seeing as how it is most certainly not something we're born with.

God bless,
- H

I actually did somewhat answer this PM#10 …but I copied it and added a little extra at the end

You are correct regarding gifts in verse 4

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of the Body of Christ” →(“5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11 *) →(“holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38) and →(“gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation thereof …1 Cor 12:9).

*(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed to serving Gods people.)


Verse 6 states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1Co 12 it changes from gifts…. to manifestation.

12:7 “But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal”

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but it changed from gifts to manifestation.


If you think in terms of a Swiss army knife being the gift (spirit within) that we were given at the new birth.
With the knife there are several operations ...knife, scissors, saw, spoon, screwdriver, can opener, pliers, corkscrew, and nail file. Allegorically those would be the manifestation of the spirit. You could receive the knife and never use any of the utensils ..or, at your discretion you can operate all or just some of them…the choice is ours….. As the following verse illustrates.

1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Some say the words “severely as he will” are referring to “as God wills”. If that were the case then God just contradicted Himself from verse 7 where He stated “is given to every man”... Furthermore the word severely is the Greek word idia from idios meaning “ones own”. Of the 114 times the word idios is used in the Bible, this is the only place it is translated severely. Usually translated “one’s own” “his own” “your own”.

By using the correct rendering of this word idios, verse 11 would read “dividing (distributing) to every man his own, as he (the man) will”

 

[Hidden In Him]

I actually did somewhat answer this PM#10 …but I copied it and added a little extra at the end

You are correct regarding gifts in verse 4

12:4 A literal understanding of this would be: “Through the choice or option of God, there are gifts given to man.”

Verse 4 does talk about the “diversity of gifts” …..of which there are seven given to the “Church of the Body of Christ” →(“5 gift ministries” listed in Ephesians Eph 4:11 *) →(“holy spirit” “the gift” given at new birth…Acts 2:38) and →(“gifts of healing” because every healing is a gift, but it is still a manifestation thereof …1 Cor 12:9).

*(the 5 gift ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 These are gifts of service on a horizontal level given to those who are fully committed to serving Gods people.)


Verse 6 states that, God is the one who energizes (worketh) each operation.


In verse 7 of 1Co 12 it changes from gifts…. to manifestation.

12:7 “But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal”

The word “but” is a conjunction that sets in contrast that which precedes it … verses 4-6 was dealing with gifts, but it changed from gifts to manifestation.


If you think in terms of a Swiss army knife being the gift (spirit within) that we were given at the new birth.
With the knife there are several operations ...knife, scissors, saw, spoon, screwdriver, can opener, pliers, corkscrew, and nail file. Allegorically those would be the manifestation of the spirit. You could receive the knife and never use any of the utensils ..or, at your discretion you can operate all or just some of them…the choice is ours….. As the following verse illustrates.

1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Some say the words “severely as he will” are referring to “as God wills”. If that were the case then God just contradicted Himself from verse 7 where He stated “is given to every man”... Furthermore the word severely is the Greek word idia from idios meaning “ones own”. Of the 114 times the word idios is used in the Bible, this is the only place it is translated severely. Usually translated “one’s own” “his own” “your own”.

By using the correct rendering of this word idios, verse 11 would read “dividing (distributing) to every man his own, as he (the man) will”

So when Paul urges them to be zealous for the greater gifts, what specifically is he saying to them, i.e. what gifts is he saying to be zealous for? And what gifts are they greater than?

 

[Dropship]

When somebody is speaking in a tongue, does he go into a trance or what?
Do women do it?
And what exactly is the point of it, what's it FOR?

 

[Angelina]

Tongues is indeed a gift. All gifts are from the Holy Spirit so.... If tongues is not a gift, neither is any other gift.

Hebrews 2
4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Acts 2
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 10
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

1 Corinthians 12
4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Peace!

 

[Robert Gwin]

That's like the United States giving up its defense forces. Russia and China would love it! I wonder what would happen?

I don't think the devil stopped seeking whom he may devour after the 1st century. A good look at the world today ought to prove that. He is winning largely because too many Christians are powerless, not knowing about the holy spirit dwelling within. The US can have a good stock of weapons, but it they're locked up when an enemy attacks, they will do no good.

I think you may have read the post with your mind already made up, since you apparently didn't even absorb the message. Why do you call a gift what God clearly calls a manifestation?

The Bible is available to virtually everyone on earth sir, speaking in tongues has not been necessary for centuries. What people do today is unlike why it was needed and given in the first century. Speaking in tongues is not from Jehovah, rather the other god Rich

 

[Robert Gwin]

Do you believe Jesus is God manifested in the flesh ?
1 John 4 :7-10 ( context)
V.9. In this was manisfested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only
begotten Son into the world, that we might LIVE through him.
10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that HE LOVED US, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Rms.3:19-22

Jesus said in Mk. 13:31; Mt. 24:35; Luke 21:33, Heaven and earth shall pass away but my word SHALL NOT pass away.

John16:5-8 ( context )
V.7 Nevertheless I TELL YOU THE TRUTH; It is expedient FOR YOU that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you ; but if I depart, I will SEND HIM UNTO YOU. And when he is come, HE will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.
John 14: 14 -17 ( context )
16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER COMFORTER, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER.
17.Even the Spirit of Truth;...............................
for he DWELLETH with you and SHALL BE IN YOU. JN.14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost...................read the rest plz some of WHY he was sent !
Jn,20:20-23 ( context )
22. And when he had said this,HE BREATHED on them, and saith unto them, RECEIVE YE THE HOLY GHOST.

Tooooo many ppl today quote this out of context so I'll do it b4 you have a chance to do so.
1 Cor.13 6-9 ( context)
V.8. CHARITY NEVER FAILETH: but WHETHER there be prophecies, they shall fail; [ be false]
whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
THIS IS DIRECTED @ CHARITY, NOT at prophevies, tongues, or knowledge.......it is about love ! For we KNOW in part and we PROPHESY in part. Why bc we look through the glass darkly, our vision is obscured bc of the flesh !

Either you don't believe in the anointing anymore for God's children or you don't believe the word !

Do you also call the Son Michael ?
Do you believe heaven or hell is here on earth that we are living now ?
Any of the above beliefs are false doctrine and ppl are deceived into this false belief.

Of course not, Jesus is God's son. Jesus told who God is, will you listen to his words Maam? Mat 4:10

 

[Robert Gwin]

I'm pretty sure you are talking about 1 Corinthians 13:10,

1 Cor 13:10,

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
​

But verse 12 is highly relevent,

1 Cor 13:12,

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

If perfection is already come, then it must be said that we've come face to face with God and we now know ourselves as He knows us, that we are no longer looking through a dark glass, that we are no longer deceived by the devil. I don't think that is even close to the case.

That perfection will not come until Jesus returns. Until then we will be attacked daily by the devil and his system. That did not stop at some uncertain date in the first century. He is always seeking who he may devour and we dare not rely on our own power to resist those attacks. God gave us the tools in the gift of holy spirit, but it's totally up to us to utilize those tools, i.e., the nine manifestations, or not. Too bad he's deceived many who either do not know about the manifestations or who refuse to operate them in love. It's about all he has left. He knows very well when that which is perfect will arrive and he's doing his best to make the world miserable until that day when he will finally be defeated and cast into the lake of fire.

Yes sir, that is what I am basing it on, and we Jehovah's witnesses do not believe that God sanctions speaking in tongues for centuries now. We believe the reason for it was to spread the good news to others of different languages, but although people do it now, it is distinctly different that it was in recorded history.

 

[Tommy Cool]

When somebody is speaking in a tongue, does he go into a trance or what?
Do women do it?

It is not a trance …You are in complete control...like speaking your native language only you make the decision to speak in tongues.
The true God does not control or possess…ever! …..The god of this world, does.

Available to all men, women, children (at an accountability age, my kids were 6)

Sometimes mind pictures are helpful in understanding. The following is kind of a cross between an analogy and an allegory ….we will call a Anagory (totally made up word)

Picture a hose coming down from heaven. When you become a Christian, you get this hose that is attached to your mouth (it’s a spiritual hose you can’t see it) God has opened up the spigot in heaven and your mouth acts as the trigger sprayer. Inside that hose is not water, but tongues…(interpretation and prophecy) and when you speak you are speaking the wonderful works of God. The spigot is open and the words are right there ready to flow, you control the sprayer to let those words out; you start, and stop at will, you are in control.

Remember this is only an analogy to help you develop a mind picture …..you don’t really get a hose ……you can get that at the hardware store for about 20.00 and a cheap trigger sprayer for $8.00…………… but manifesting tongues, interpretation and prophecy ……………priceless!

 

[Tommy Cool]

And what exactly is the point of it, what's it FOR?

Benefits of Speaking in Tongues


The primary purpose of tongues is designed for the individual believer in his/her private prayer life.

It edifies the believers and is a sign → when in a group meeting.... and the person speaking, also interprets.


1. To speak the wonderful works of God

Act 2:11
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


2. To magnify God

Act 10:46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


3. To give thanks well

1Co 14:17
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.



4. To bring a message from God {when interpreted}

1Co 14:5& 27

5) except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let that one interpret.



5. Sign to the unbelievers

1Co 14:22, Mar 16:17



1Co 14
22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Mar 16
17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;



6. To edify you, build you up.

1Co 14:4, Jude 20

1Co 14:4

He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Jde 20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the holy spirit.



7. To speak to God mysteries {divine secrets}

1Co 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


8. Makes intercession for us
Rom 8:26&27, Eph 6:18

Rom
26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom
27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

Eph 6:18
18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;



9. Your proof in the senses world that you are born again.

1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the holy spirit.


10. To have the spirit bear witness with our spirit – Similar to #9

Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



11. To know you are a joint-heir with Christ.

Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.



12. To strengthen you with might in the inner man

Eph 3:16

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his spirit in the

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not I

Hi brother!

Romans 12 are from the Father
1 Cor. 12 are from the Spirit (second type of tongues FROM GOD with interpretation required)
Ephesians 4 are from Jesus

Mark 16 are for all individual believers as a sign. (first type of tongues TO GOD with NO interpretation listed so not required)

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Of course not, Jesus is God's son. Jesus told who God is, will you listen to his words Maam? Mat 4:10

Lol, I read and understand his words. YOU DO NOT !Therefore you deny Jesus is God and he will also deny you before the Father.

I lean on the understanding provided through God the Holy Ghost not my own understanding nor another's.

You seem to be a nice polite person but we have nothing to discuss. I cannot learn from one who denies Jesus is God.

May he turn you onto the path where the Spirit will light your way and the TRUTH will be revealed unto your soul.

 

[Jim B]

Benefits of Speaking in Tongues


The primary purpose of tongues is designed for the individual believer in his/her private prayer life.

It edifies the believers and is a sign → when in a group meeting.... and the person speaking, also interprets.


1. To speak the wonderful works of God

Act 2:11
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


2. To magnify God

Act 10:46
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.


3. To give thanks well

1Co 14:17
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.



4. To bring a message from God {when interpreted}

1Co 14:5& 27

5) except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let that one interpret.



5. Sign to the unbelievers

1Co 14:22, Mar 16:17



1Co 14
22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Mar 16
17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;



6. To edify you, build you up.

1Co 14:4, Jude 20

1Co 14:4

He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Jde 20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the holy spirit.



7. To speak to God mysteries {divine secrets}

1Co 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


8. Makes intercession for us
Rom 8:26&27, Eph 6:18

Rom
26: Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom
27: And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

Eph 6:18
18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;



9. Your proof in the senses world that you are born again.

1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the holy spirit.


10. To have the spirit bear witness with our spirit – Similar to #9

Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



11. To know you are a joint-heir with Christ.

Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.



12. To strengthen you with might in the inner man

Eph 3:16

That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his spirit in the

You wrote "The primary purpose of tongues is designed for the individual believer in his/her private prayer life. It edifies the believers and is a sign → when in a group meeting.... and the person speaking, also interprets."

That is absolutely correct. Anyone who disagrees needs to go back to the Bible and read it with understanding.

 

[Rich R]

Nothing but more silly religious "Word games"!!!

You mean the words that God purified 7 times? What a game player He must be in your eyes!

 

[Rich R]

No, LoL.

Hello, Rich. Let me ask you a simple question here: They are accurately called "gifts" in the Greek of 1 Corinthians 12:4 because they cannot be obtained by natural means. They must be given by God. How does one manifest or operate in unknown tongues as the Spirit leads unless it is given by God?

Of course tongues are spiritual. That is why they are listed as part of the "spiritual matters" of 1 Cor 12:1. However it is clear that there are more spiritual matters than gifts talked about in the subsequent verses.

To you tongues is a Gift. To God tongues is a manifestation. Don't you realize that God purified His words 7 times (Ps 12:6)? You can willy-nilly change His words to suit your doctrine, but you'll be far from the truth.

I would think even a 6th grade level reader would realize that verses 4 through 7 are talking about 4 different things, namely, gifts, administrations, operations, and finally manifestations. Verses 8-10 then go into more detail as to what those manifestations are. It's really just that simple. Tradition is too often highly complicated.

 

[Rich R]

I like it! It is not under my control, it is given selectively, in a timely way, when it is needed by the Holy Spirit, Who decides when we need it. I notice you are trying painfully to ignore all the detailed characteristics and attributes that so define God in the Holy Spirit.



"... But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal.
For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues:" 1 Cor. 12:7-10

When something is given to us, it is a gift. If you can't discern that, notice that faith is given to us. We all know faith is a gift. And then it clearly exclaims "gifts of healing", implying that everything in the passage are gifts.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," Eph. 2:8

You are free to call tongues a gift when God calls them a manifestation. However, it is highly unlikely you will really understand the spiritual matters Paul mentioned in 1 Cor 12:1. For example, you will be unlikely to understand that tongues are in fact under the control of the individual speaker. No "slaying" in the spirit. That is highly un-decent and un-orderly, in direct violation of 1 Cor 14:49.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Of course tongues are spiritual. That is why they are listed as part of the "spiritual matters" of 1 Cor 12:1. However is is clear that there are more spiritual matters than gifts talked about in the subsequent verses.

To you tongues is a Gift. To God tongues is a manifestation. Don't you realize that God purified His words 7 times (Ps 12:6)? You can willy-nilly change His words to suit your doctrine, but you'll be far from the truth.

I would think even a 6th grade level reader would realize that verses 4 through 7 are talking about 4 different things, namely, gifts, administrations, operations, and finally manifestations. Verses 8-10 then go into more detail as to what those manifestations are.

Well there's the second dodge I've gotten to a very simple question, and with a "6th grader" insult thrown in for good measure, LoL.

Tommy Cool was polite about it, at least. What's the matter with you? You're normally fairly courteous to people.