Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?

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Johann

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Yes I don't know what you mean by that, never heard of it before. Maybe you've talked about it in other posts, but I'm new around here.
2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

θεοπνευστος
G2315
A-NSF
θεόπνευστος
divinely breathed in...theopneustos

As to your question to me re "spiritual breathing" Lizbeth, is this the scripture you are referring to, or something else?
J.
 
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Lizbeth

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...also, @Lizbeth, explain to me how you understand, unction, dreams, visions, audible voice, inner voice, prophetic word etc.

And welcome to the forum sister.
J.

Thanks for the welcome, it's nice to meet everyone. Dreams, visions, prophetic words, as well as audible voice are all self-explanatory I think...all found in scripture including new testament. What I'm calling inner voice, is like an audible voice, but only hearing it on the inside with our inner ear so to speak, not hearing it with our physical ears. I think that inner voice might be the same still small voice that Elijah heard. Unction is what I call receiving a "knowing" from the Lord. Eg, one time I had a dream from the Lord but didn't know what it meant, then later the Lord unctioned me by His Spirit with the meaning of the dream and I knew in a flash what it meant. There would have been no way to deduce what it meant without the Lord. He can unction the meaning of scriptures to us like that as well. And there's no formula...I believe the Lord speaks when and how to whom He wills.....the Spirit blows where it willeth.
 
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Johann

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The Holy Spirit is a believer's teacher of all spiritual truth in life and in this world. It is truly the Spirit of life and our helper. It reveals what the word of God says, in time, as we seek and pray, and it is of the Father, for spiritual guidance. We pray and ask for example, is Jesus really God or is he a human person born by God, with his Father living inside of him, and he did not sin....

And did not men absent of the HS speaking to them, invent new ways to view scripture over time? And this actually happened over the many centuries and is still percolating today? Many pagans and philosophers alien to the truth and Holy Spirit dictated foreign interpretations of scripture and even supplemented it with their own books? They used the current thinking of men like Plato and Aristotle and later the philosopher of the 16th century and beyond, and new ones of today.

So what is really critical in grasping and knowing who is the one true God and his Son in scripture? Which is it then, believing scripture without the HS, or having the HS first in our lives, speaking to us in true faith and then to know the true word of God called scripture?

This is the challenge and argument here. One side says God is the Father only, and the other side says not true, because we have a Triune god eventhough it is not in the word of God. And the implication here is that those that believe in a Triune God is either ignoring the Holy Spirit in their lives for truth in this matter, or they really do not have the HS within them, period. And that is why they still believe and persist that Jesus is their one God Almighty.

Yes, it does hit nerves indeed as I've read already. To be expected..

Friend, we have a new sister here on this forum, be careful in our manifold words.
J.
 
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Johann

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Thanks for the welcome, it's nice to meet everyone. Dreams, visions, prophetic words, as well as audible voice are all self-explanatory I think...all found in scripture including new testament. What I'm calling inner voice, is like an audible voice, but only hearing it on the inside with our inner ear so to speak, not hearing it with our physical ears. I think that inner voice might be the same still small voice that Elijah heard. Unction is what I call receiving a "knowing" from the Lord. Eg, one time I had a dream from the Lord but didn't know what it meant, then later the Lord unctioned me by His Spirit with the meaning of the dream and I knew in a flash what it meant. There would have been no way to deduce what it meant without the Lord. He can unction the meaning of scriptures to us like that as well. And there's no formula...I believe the Lord speaks when and how to whom He wills.....the Spirit blows where it willeth.
...The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Shalom to you and family
J.
 
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Lizbeth

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2 Timothy 3:16 ESV
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

θεοπνευστος
G2315
A-NSF
θεόπνευστος
divinely breathed in...theopneustos

As to your question to me re "spiritual breathing" Lizbeth, is this the scripture you are referring to, or something else?
J.
I wasn't referring to any scripture.....you had said something about practising spiritual breathing and I had no clue what you meant, it isn't a phrase I've ever heard before. Don't mind me, I can be a bit thick at times :) ....now I see it's an expression that means reading and taking in the scriptures, is that right?
 

Wrangler

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In the entire volume of the Bible there is not ONE instance of any of the idolatrous practices documented therein associated with the holy scriptures. NOT ONE!

I’m sorry but you are gravely mistaken. Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

His proclamation of being the Lord of the Sabbath and it being made for man, not man for it, as well as their adherence to tithing even spices but ignoring the weightier matters of Scripture, rattled them deeply.

It is important to recognize there is practically no other group where Scripture records the object of Jesus’ condemnation than idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.
 
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Johann

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I wasn't referring to any scripture.....you had said something about practising spiritual breathing and I had no clue what you meant, it isn't a phrase I've ever heard before. Don't mind me, I can be a bit thick at times :) ....now I see it's an expression that means reading and taking in the scriptures, is that right?
No Lizbeth, I never said anything re practicing "spiritual breathing" but I'd wager there's a lot on YouTube and Google on this topic.

I like the way you put it, the reading and taking in the scriptures, never forget the Holy Spirit sister...


Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.


Examining the Scriptures daily (kath' hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas). Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves.

In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.


Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.”

The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021).

The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).
Robertson.

Luk 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
Luk 24:14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
Luk 24:15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
Luk 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Luk 24:17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
Luk 24:18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
Luk 24:22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
Luk 24:23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
Luk 24:24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
Luk 24:29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
Luk 24:30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?


Luk_24:32. ἡ καρδία καιομένη, the heart burning, a beautiful expression for the emotional effect of new truth dawning on the mind; common to sacred writers (vide Psa_39:4, Jer_20:9) with profane.

Their heart began to burn while the stranger expounded Scripture, and kept burning, and burning up into ever clearer flame, as He went on—“valde et diu,” Bengel.

It is the heart that has been dried by tribulation that burns so. This burning of the heart experienced by the two disciples was typical of the experience of the whole early Church when it got the key to the sufferings of Jesus (Holtzmann, H. C.). Their doubt and its removal was common to them with many, and that is why the story is told so carefully by Lk.—ὡς ἐλάλει, ὡς διήνοιγεν (without καὶ), as He spoke, as He opened, etc.; first the general then the more specific form of the fact.
Expositors Greek Testament.

Don't want to "bomb" you with unnecessary long posts Lizbeth, stay strong in Christ Jesus, rooted and grounded in Him and all for His glory, nothing of self.
J.
 

Jim B

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I’m sorry but you are gravely mistaken. Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

His proclamation of being the Lord of the Sabbath and it being made for man, not man for it, as well as their adherence to tithing even spices but ignoring the weightier matters of Scripture, rattled them deeply.

It is important to recognize there is practically no other group where Scripture records the object of Jesus’ condemnation than idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

Great post!
 

Michiah-Imla

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Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

That’s absurd!

He condemn then for THEIR HYPOCRISY, not idolatry of the scriptures!

Jesus even told his disciples:

“Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.” (Matthew 23:1-7)

No accusation of scripture idolatry whatsoever!

Seek in vain for scripture that justifies your charge. This is made up garbage!
 

Johann

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I’m sorry but you are gravely mistaken. Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.
You forget something
I’m sorry but you are gravely mistaken. Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

His proclamation of being the Lord of the Sabbath and it being made for man, not man for it, as well as their adherence to tithing even spices but ignoring the weightier matters of Scripture, rattled them deeply.

It is important to recognize there is practically no other group where Scripture records the object of Jesus’ condemnation than idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.
You forget something...


The famous warning of Jesus Christ about the tradition of men that voids Scripture (Mark 7:1-13), is in fact, a direct reference to the Talmud, or more specifically, the forerunner of the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during Christ’s lifetime, before being committed to writing. Mark chapter 7, from verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord’s pointed condemnation of the Mishnah.

Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the widespread “Judeo-Christian” notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of Judaism. But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of rabbis, not God.

The Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their supreme law, and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said, void the laws of God, not uphold them. As students of the Talmud, we know this to be true.

Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby, in Judaism on Trial, quotes Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph: “Further, without the Talmud, we would not be able to understand passages in the Bible…God has handed this authority to the sages and tradition is a necessity as well as scripture. The Sages also made enactments of their own…anyone who does not study the Talmud cannot understand Scripture.”

There is a tiny Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to eschew Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites, a group which, historically, has been most hated and severely persecuted by orthodox Jewish rabbinate.

To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two versions, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

The Babylonian Talmud is regarded as the authoritative version: “The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive.” (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to Kabbalah: A Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40).

This study is based on the Jewish-authorized Babylonian Talmud. We have published herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up for yourself.

...but I don't expect you to understand
J.
 

Jim B

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You forget something

You forget something...


The famous warning of Jesus Christ about the tradition of men that voids Scripture (Mark 7:1-13), is in fact, a direct reference to the Talmud, or more specifically, the forerunner of the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during Christ’s lifetime, before being committed to writing. Mark chapter 7, from verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord’s pointed condemnation of the Mishnah.

Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the widespread “Judeo-Christian” notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of Judaism. But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of rabbis, not God.

The Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their supreme law, and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said, void the laws of God, not uphold them. As students of the Talmud, we know this to be true.

Jewish scholar Hyam Maccoby, in Judaism on Trial, quotes Rabbi Yehiel ben Joseph: “Further, without the Talmud, we would not be able to understand passages in the Bible…God has handed this authority to the sages and tradition is a necessity as well as scripture. The Sages also made enactments of their own…anyone who does not study the Talmud cannot understand Scripture.”

There is a tiny Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to eschew Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites, a group which, historically, has been most hated and severely persecuted by orthodox Jewish rabbinate.

To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two versions, the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

The Babylonian Talmud is regarded as the authoritative version: “The authority of the Babylonian Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt the former is decisive.” (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to Kabbalah: A Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40).

This study is based on the Jewish-authorized Babylonian Talmud. We have published herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up for yourself.

...but I don't expect you to understand
J.

Interesting but..

why the gratuitous insult at the end? You may be technically correct, but spiritually you are wrong!
 

Wrangler

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He condemn then for THEIR HYPOCRISY, not idolatry of the scriptures!

Just ignore the Scripture about Jesus condemnations of the Pharisees turning the Sabbath into an idol, having NOTHING to do with their hypocrisy?!

I agree the isolators were also hypocrites.

No accusation of scripture idolatry whatsoever!

You mean to suggest that only if the word is applied to a Bible story can that story qualify as a story of idolatry? I guess that’s where we disagree.

Another Bible antagonist in the house…

Sad that you admit defeat by resorting to personal attack.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Just ignore the Scripture about Jesus condemnations of the Pharisees turning the Sabbath into an idol

There is none. But in your head.

why aren’t you quoting the scripture that proves what you are saying is true?

Sad that you admit defeat by resorting to personal attack.

That was directed at @Jim B

But if the shoe fits…
 

APAK

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I’m sorry but you are gravely mistaken. Practically the entire basis for Jesus repeated condemning the Pharisees is their idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.

His proclamation of being the Lord of the Sabbath and it being made for man, not man for it, as well as their adherence to tithing even spices but ignoring the weightier matters of Scripture, rattled them deeply.

It is important to recognize there is practically no other group where Scripture records the object of Jesus’ condemnation than idolatrous practices associated with the holy scriptures.
as this source puts it...and it does capture some of it...

Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Matt. 16:6, Mark 8:15, Luke 12:1), “Then they (The Disciples) understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the DOCTRINE of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:12)

“Doctrine” translated to the Greek word didachēs means “instructions” and “teachings.” This command to beware of the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees were meant for anyone who call themselves “Christian” (disciples of Jesus Christ). So why is it that so many professing Christians cannot seem to identify this teaching and are so easily deceived? Its simple, Christians are more involved in the religious aspects of Christianity rather than the Truths of God’s Word…ironically we set aside the “Doctrine” of Christ and embrace the very thing He warned us about—the Doctrine of the Pharisees.

Doctrine of The Pharisees
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Would you change your opinion if I did quote Scriptures you know so well but do not have ears to hear?

You are still jibber-jabbering…

Post your biblical evidence.

I read the Bible very frequently and if I missed something like that I would love to be enlightened by scripture. Not your imagination of what the scripture is saying, but what the scripture says plainly!
 
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