Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Carl Emerson]

What has my walk with the Lord Jesus to do with the subject at hand?

Actually quite a lot...

If I am to take a brothers views seriously I like to investigate why I should trust his word.

 

[Keiw]

No, you are in error. Should I believe you or Paul?

Gibberish is just confusion--God is not a God of confusion. Paul disagrees with you-1Cor 14:9

 

[JunChosen]

If I am to take a brothers views seriously I like to investigate why I should trust his word.

Not if you know your Bible. Yes, be like the Bereans who searched the scriptures to see if what Paul have said were so. There are many people who come with agendas and presuppositions.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Rich R]

Just wondering if you can comment on what impact on the operation of tongues in church this view would have???

How tongues should be operated in the assembly:

1 Cor 14:13,

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
​

If this is followed:

1 Cor 14:5,

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
​

If this is NOT followed:

1 Cor 14:23,

If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?​

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not if you know your Bible. Yes, be like the Bereans who searched the scriptures to see if what Paul have said were so. There are many people who come with agendas and presuppositions.

To God Be The Glory

How many years have you read the bible alone in a stretch without any reference to other input.

 

[Carl Emerson]

How tongues should be operated in the assembly:

1 Cor 14:13,

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.
​

If this is followed:

1 Cor 14:5,

I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
​

If this is NOT followed:

1 Cor 14:23,

If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?​

OK so no public tongues without interpretation...

I am OK with that and many are.

But I reach that conclusion without regard for the matter raised by the OP.

So I still don't understand what makes you point in the OP so critical.

 

[Rich R]

OK so no public tongues without interpretation...

I am OK with that and many are.

But I reach that conclusion without regard for the matter raised by the OP.

So I still don't understand what makes you point in the OP so critical.

Most people call tongues a gift. That leads them to believe that only some people get the so-called gift of tongues, while the vast majority don't think they have the so-called gift of tongues. I think it is highly critical since the adversary has talked untold numbers of sincere Christians out of manifesting power from on high (Luk 24:49, Acts 1:8).

In the OP I tried to point out that the actual gift is holy spirit which all born again folks have. Of course spirit can not be seen, tasted, touched, heard, or smelled, but, as it says in 1 Cor 12:7-10, there are 9 different ways that the gift can be manifested into the material world. All believers can operate all 9 manifestations when so inspired. Of course if they don't know they can do it, they won't do it, and the devil scores a huge victory.

Stated succinctly, tongues is not a gift. It is a manifestation. It is one of 9 manifestations of holy spirit which is the gift.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Anything that makes Christianity look odd in the eyes of the general public deserves to be "disparaged"..
I'm not singling out tongue-speakers, as there are also other lots of sects and cults around with odd beliefs

The first type of speaking in tongues without interpretation needed is prayer and praise language TO God. It is called a sign. But tongues, like Jesus in Luke 2:34-35 was a sign "which will be spoken against." That is why in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 it is a negative sign to the unbelievers but also believers like you who are uninformed. Did Jesus deserve to be disparaged when he said you can't be His unless you eat his flesh and drink His blood? He didn't make it easy to believe in Him. But He wants us to come to Him like little children, full of trust. You are looking at Christianity with rose colored glasses. You must be ready to die for Him. Do you recognize yourself in the following:

Isa. 53:He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Guys and gals, I (and no doubt others) WANT to understand the tongue thing, but nothing any of you have said here explains it adequately, as my questions have largely gone unanswered, namely-
1- When a person does it, is it a message for the speaker alone or for the speaker to also pass on to other people?
2- How can the audience know what it means?
3- If the speaker interprets it into english for them, why didn't he/she simply speak english in the first place?
4- How does tongues benefit the speaker or anybody else?
5- Are non-tongue speakers spiritually inferior to speakers?

1. 1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. (The sign of tongues is our prayer language given to all believers Mark 16:16-18. You do not understand it and no one else does either, except if God gives them the gift of interpretation of tongues like He gave to the devout Jews on the Day of Pentecost who each heard all of them speaking his own individual language. Many read it backwards). The second type of tongues is for those with that office, and not many have that office of receiving messages from God, or supernatural interpretation of said tongues. 1 Corinthians 12:30.

2. Gift of Interpretation of tongues

3. He is supernaturally hearing the tongues and by the gift of interpretation of tongues gives the message.

4. It somehow builds up our spirit. We are praying mysteries that God wants to bring into fruition. They may be about our own lives or in intercession for someone else.

5. We all have the authority to speak in tongues if we are believers in Christ. Mark 16:16-18 (see no interpretation). But there are some hinderances. Mocking, false teachings against tongues, pride, lack of obedience to God to do whatever He wants us to.

 

[JunChosen]

How many years have you read the bible alone in a stretch without any reference to other input.

If the above is your criteria for understanding scriptures then I can see why you are having difficulties. I've already given you the example about the Bereans.

For instance, for many years I have puzzled over a verse and even prayed about it's understanding. Then one day, the verse popped up again and bingo! Yes, the Holy Spirit will give the answer in His time. God promised His children that He will NEVER hide things from them.

However, the danger in copying the works of others is that they too have feet of clay [so to speak]. And rightly so the Bereans sought the scriptures.

Like this OP for instance had the writer understood that the "phenomenon of tongues" is a gift rather than a manifestation I'm sure he would have presented it another way.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Carl Emerson]

If the above is your criteria for understanding scriptures then I can see why you are having difficulties

Well it isn't and I'm not.

You have claimed you have a hotline to the Holy Spirit that others don't have - I am trying to find a reason to believe you and I am struggling.

I note that it is not your style to answer questions asked of you and reason matters through.

I note that Wisdom manifests among those willing to discuss. (reasonable)

James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, free of hypocrisy.

I would have more confidence in you if you were prepared to engage in this way rather than trying to score 'holy points' and evade simple questions.

 

[JunChosen]

You have claimed you have a hotline to the Holy Spirit that others don't have - I am trying to find a reason to believe you and I am struggling.

I've NEVER claimed that others don't have a hotline to the Holy Spirit, but I'm confident you've noticed that of me.

I note that it is not your style to answer questions asked of you and reason matters through.

I thought for a moment you were speaking of yourself. I apologize. Lol

I note that Wisdom manifests among those willing to discuss. (reasonable)

You know, I've noticed that too.

James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, free of hypocrisy.

Next time I'll be more Christ-like, ty.

I would have more confidence in you if you were prepared to engage in this way rather than trying to score 'holy points' and evade simple questions.

I was not aware that I was trying to score "holy points" with anyone. As I recall I was the first to ask a question and it was deliberately ignored, unless you believe it is alright to answer a question with a question, go figure!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

Most people call tongues a gift.

And rightly so. You should also be doing the same, instead of trying to change the meaning of spiritual gifts. But then again, you do not believe in the deity of Christ. So we should not expect a "manifestation" of sound doctrine from you.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I've NEVER claimed that others don't have a hotline to the Holy Spirit, but I'm confident you've noticed that of me.

No I haven't noticed - quite the contrary...

Maybe you forgot you said this...

"After you've interpreted 1 Corinthians 5:5 in your own wisdom, then I'll give my interpretation by the Holy Spirit."

 

[Carl Emerson]

Most people call tongues a gift. That leads them to believe that only some people get the so-called gift of tongues, while the vast majority don't think they have the so-called gift of tongues. I think it is highly critical since the adversary has talked untold numbers of sincere Christians out of manifesting power from on high (Luk 24:49, Acts 1:8).

In the OP I tried to point out that the actual gift is holy spirit which all born again folks have. Of course spirit can not be seen, tasted, touched, heard, or smelled, but, as it says in 1 Cor 12:7-10, there are 9 different ways that the gift can be manifested into the material world. All believers can operate all 9 manifestations when so inspired. Of course if they don't know they can do it, they won't do it, and the devil scores a huge victory.

Stated succinctly, tongues is not a gift. It is a manifestation. It is one of 9 manifestations of holy spirit which is the gift.

I assume then that you believe the Baptism of the Spirit is the same as being born again...

This would be why you don't consider tongues a gift I am guessing...

 

[Dropship]

..believers like you who are uninformed..

The fact is, Paul said-
"I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you preach" (1 Corinthians 14:5)
So because disobeying Paul is definitely a no-no, get on here this instant..-

 

[Dropship]

[tongues]...It somehow builds up our spirit..

God doesn't give the "gift" of tongues to everybody, so perhaps he only gives it to those who he feels need a bit of help?

 

[marksman]

What you might call splitting hairs.

 

[Rich R]

And rightly so. You should also be doing the same, instead of trying to change the meaning of spiritual gifts. But then again, you do not believe in the deity of Christ. So we should not expect a "manifestation" of sound doctrine from you.

What am I supposed to do with that? I'd suggest you read James 3 about the tongue.

 

[Rich R]

I assume then that you believe the Baptism of the Spirit is the same as being born again...

This would be why you don't consider tongues a gift I am guessing...

I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am, but I sense there is something you want to tell me. Is that right?