The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[stunnedbygrace]

No, it doesn’t change anything! I just thought I recognized you by your writing, that’s all. I want to say your name there was….David…? I was awestruckchild there by the way.

The name just came to me! ProjectPeter.

 

[WalkInLight]

I don’t believe that Entire Sanctification or Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue (Even though I believe that such a thing is possible based on what Scripture says). Believers must meet the bare minimum requirements for holy living according to the New Testament to enter the Kingdom. I believe Sinless Perfection is going beyond the bare minimum level requirements of living holy to enter the Kingdom. So again, I don’t believe Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue. I don’t see all sin as the same in the Bible. Not all sin (or transgressions) condemns.

Not all sins are the same. There are “sins not unto death” and “sins unto death” (1 John 5:16-17).

In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother
or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court;
and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother,
‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the
supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.”
(Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell.

Of course a believer can confess and forsake sins unto death and be forgiven (as long as they are remorseful and they do not intend to sin again). But in the “Sin and Still Be Saved” or OSAS crowd, they believe they must sin again. This is a huge problem according to Scripture if we regard sin in our heart, God will not even hear us (Psalms 66:18) (John 9:31). In other words, God will not forgive us our sin if we confess it if we are planning to just sin again tomorrow or we believe we cannot help but to sin again on a daily or weekly basis. God will not hear our prayers for forgiveness if we regard sin or iniquity in our heart. We all need to cut off sin that leads to death, and fight and battle against it to make into the Kingdom.

The devil wants people to sin; It’s not God who will agree with anyone's sin.
Of course, this should be obvious. But they don't treat sin on the same level as God does according to His Word.
They treat sin as if they dropped a glass of milk on the floor or something. They see it as an accident and not as something that can separate them from God's Kingdom. The thing is that they don't want to do what is good and right, just as children don't want to do certain things their parents tell them to do. Disobedient children will use every trick in the book to not obey.

You raise some very interesting points about sins and consequences. Those who wish to disregard behaviour as part of our relationship with Christ want simply to make everything permissible. If I can pray for forgiveness for minor sins, and they be forgiven, then holding all sins are forgiven now and in the future wrong. Equally if transgressing is part of life, ie living with Christ away and distractions in the world here, it is always a battle, means sinless perfection is equally a desire as a goal, but a work in progress rather than an absolute assumption.

If one takes either of the extreme position, then you have to ignore scripture that clear deals with this progress in love and understanding with Jesus, and not a once done super wonder encounter that defines everything. The analogy to marriage is so close its staggering, in terms of love and the ups and downs along the way. The first encounter and potential is great but it does not define learning, changing and growing with each others strengths and weaknesses. It is ironic the Jonah regarded the Fathers forgiveness a weakness in dealing with Nineveh and was willing to risk his life to make this point. I find this hard to get my head around, the grace and even discussion with which the Lord is prepared to go. He is so humble, so quiet, so patient and kind, and wants to involve us. Love is so staggering, it does not measure rank or experience but desire inclusion and empowering others.

God bless you

 

[WalkInLight]

The name just came to me! ProjectPeter.

I like the idea we share what we see in the current situation and grow with this. Jesus described people led by the Spirit like this

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
John 3:8

If I can be blessing where I am today, Amen.

Status or impact matter nothing compared to sharing the Lords love and focusing on His way and encouraging believers.
So what tag I had on different forums or interactions do not matter, other than doing the Lords will today.

God bless you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This post you have here is undisputable proof that you DO NOT have a clear understanding of Grace!

Because you don't have that understanding, when I tell you I'm a sinner saved by Grace, you automatically take it not knowing what I'm speaking of!

Let's use Paul for an example for you to see why I call myself a sinner saved by Grace. Unlike some here, I believe you have a respect for the great apostle Paul, this is why I'm using Paul for an example.

Look at what he says here! Now remember, this is the greatest apostle and follower of Christ that man has ever known!

1 Cor. 15:9-10

"For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

Do you see the humility in Paul? The greatest of them all claiming he is a sinner not worthy to be an apostle.

But he gives the Grace of God all the glory and not anything he has done.

Paul seen himself as a sinner saved by Grace, but in the eyes of God, Paul was a mountain of faith, well pleasing to the Father.

Uh, Paul was referring to his past life of being a sinner. He never said he continued as a sinner (present tense) saved by grace. You really love to make God’s people to justify sin when they didn’t.

 

[WalkInLight]

Self righteousness stems from PRIDE (and not from righteousness) which we all know is sin. (Luke 18:9-14)

How do we become righteous? (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9)

Self righteousness is a big term. I have read so many posts accusing people of being self righteous, which is an observation. But is it anything more than an accusation of emotional intent without any content? Is self righteousness only one sin among many, rather than a whole theological approach?

If someone is not self righteous but trusting in Christ and following His commands, is he something other than a christian, a faithful follower of Jesus. And if some hunt for the self justifiers of being able to stand to any degree separate from Jesus, one can end up condemning the very children of the Lord of being enemies of Jesus, but is this not standing in judgement of Gods work in peoples lives?

The danger of trying to judge the false from the good, is one can become the enemy of the Lord, a tool against the anointed.
The deeper the anger and hatred grows, the more lost one becomes declaring we have been betrayed.

Judas got there and sold out Jesus and his fellow apostles for a bag full of silver. Jesus described Judas like this

The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.
Matt 26:24

Emotional bitterness and anger is not the fruit of the Spirit, and leads to a dark path.
Praise the Lord His people are full of grace, love and forgiveness and just want light and clarity of failings they might have.

God bless you

 

[Wynona]

.....





I pray that you , a person that is in “DIRE” need of being taught herself, does not go out to preach a “ False and Perverted “Gospel” That will make others just like her—- “ Fallen From Grace“ and “Severed from Christ”.......

The LAST thing this world needs is another Confused “ SELF- Called” teacher .....This world needs “ GOD”— Called Teachers, which you ain’t......

I remember you from years ago.....I spent hours and Tons Of Computer Ink trying to teach you the lessons inherent in the Book Of Galatians....it went in one ear and out the other....You ADD to Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace That you Fail to understand ....
Those that “ fall” for False Gospels have it bad enough —- they Fall From Grace .....(Gal5)
Those that go one step farther and actually TEACH Additions to the Gospel are ACCURSED! Damned by God ( Gal 1:8)
I would suggest that you try to limit the damage that you do to yourself—— Don’t spread a False Gospel that will only damn you in the end...

I am sorry if this post seems a little “ harsh” .....It is not my intention to hurt you or anybody else....I have prayed about sending this post....I believe it is valid....somebody needs to Wake you Up.......and PLEASE , don’t try to be a teacher....Get back to me when you can sing “ Nothing But The Blood” and MEAN it....Only THEN will we know that you are Qualified to teach others “ in Spirit and in Truth”.....

I do not take the idea of teaching the Bible lightly as not many should be teachers. Those who teach will receive greater condemnation if they are in error.

I appreciate your concern but we simply do not agree on what a biblical view on grace and salvation are.

I did consider what you said back then. But I read the Word of God for myself and for that reason, I reject your doctrine with all of my heart.

You say that sins are covered by the blood of Jesus. But the Bible is clear that to keep on sinning is to trample the blood of Jesus underfoot. We all come to Christ as sinners but we need not remain that way.

If you could show me Scripture that backs up faith alone doctrine, I would heed you. But you've been refuted with multiple Scriptures many times and you just double down and repeat the same phrases again and again.

If I am wrong, why not show me with Scripture? You discouraging me from teaching the Bible will be ignored if you don't.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Ah, you caught me! I have an agenda of trying to help build up the trust of others! How sneaky of me!

Lol.
I do not lack trust in God, man however is a complete failure without him.
I believe every promise, gift, blessing, and hope offered for I believe in the fullness of God, the Father,the Son,Jesus and the Holy Ghost and the work that each manifest themselves in.

Helping is good but I'm in need of only what God wills for my life.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Now, you can continue to believe Protestant lies, or you can believe the Scripture verses I have shown here.


Speaking of “ Lies”, what are your views about Purgatory?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So if you’re born again (into a “sheep”) from the old corrupt man (pig/dog) how is it possible for you to commit sin (do dog/pig things)?

Contradicting the scripture:

“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin” (1 John 3:9)

As Paul taught in Romans 7:15-20, from God’s viewpoint, when a Believer Sins, It is not the Believer That is Doing it.....it is the Sin Nature that is “ inside” the Believer .....God sees us Believers as if we do not sin....God can do this because All Of The Sins Of our life were taken away at the Cross....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

“And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.” (Exodus 24:7)



The Lie That Satan Put Forth in the Garden has remained the #1 Lie of all time.......when the Jews promised to “Be Obedient and do EVERYTHING that God said?”....... THAT was the second biggest,..and of course, God knew it......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Where does the Bible say that God must always chastise us even if we live righteously?
What is dumb about your understanding on chastisement is that you fail to recognize that chastisement is to get the person to stop sinning. It's like a master who chastises his dog for pooping on the carpets. The goal of chastisement is to get the animal to stop pooping on the carpet. Now, you guys say you are slaves to your sin in some way in this life. Now, imagine if the dog had an uncontrollable pooping problem because it was sick and the master knew this fact. Yet, the master kicked the dog like a football as a part of the OSAS version of chastising the poor little guy. Yet, the master knows the dog cannot help himself. So chastisement in this case does not make any sense. Why correct an animal if it cannot help itself? This is just one of the many problems with your belief.

Lordy, Lordly— you “Poor Students Of The Word sure do make it easy...
Is this some kind of “set-up?”...... Lol....You just “ can’t” be this Bible Ignorant....

“ My Son, do not resent the chastening of the Lord, Don’t be discouraged when you are Rebuked by Him; for whom the Lord loves He Chastises, and He scourges every son that he receives” .....If you have not experienced this Godly, Fatherly Correction when you go astray and give in to Temptations , you are a “ Bastard” and not a Child of God.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The sin and still be saved Christian is not going to change unless God intervenes or unless they are convicted by His Word. Right now, most are not going to change. They will lose friends and they will have to give up sin in order to change and that's not easy to do. We also don't know who will change. Only God does. So we will just keep preaching the truth against their sin and still be saved doctrine and know that if we sow the truth of God's Word, we shall also reap in God's timing.

“Change “ saves nobody .......RESTING in Paul’s Gospel ( Given to Him by Jesus) is what Saves.........Do “ That” and God will put His Spirit in you and you will be TRANSFORMED .....Remember that “ Inside Of The Cup” thingy that Jesus talked about? THAT is Transformation....that is what God wants to do “ FOR” you.....

Anybody can “ Turn over a New Leaf” or perform a “ Change” —— Only “ GOD” can TRANSFORM! Try to learn the difference......Heaven and Hell are at stake .....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Some Helpful Tips to Properly Interpret God's Word:

#1. Ask God for the understanding of His Word, i.e. "Give us this day our daily bread" (Sometimes this is a repeat process in that we have to keep asking; Especially when it comes to difficult passages).

#2. Context (Looking at the surrounding words, chapters).

#3. Read the most plainest meaning of the words in a text first in the English, unless the context and or other cross references indicate a meaning otherwise. While certain words in the Hebrew and Greek can be helpful, looking at the original language should be a last option (IMHO), and not as a way to read or interpret the Bible normally. The English should not conflict with the original languages. But some think otherwise. They think they know a dead language or that scholars are right, when this is not the case. Jesus said beware of the scribes. The scribes are those who tran-scribed the Scriptures. The scribes of our day would be the scholars. So be careful of what they say.

#4. Cross references (By 2-3 witnesses God's Word is confirmed) (But this is not always the case; For example: Folks can point out the prosperity gospel with Scripture or Eternal Security with several verses, but this does not mean that such beliefs are true if we look at the whole counsel of God's Word; Also the only verse in the Bible that point blank explains the Trinity is 1 John 5:7 in the King James Bible; No other verse really says the same thing like 1 John 5:7).

#5. Interpretation must be in line with basic morality (It disturbs me greatly when folks have an interpretation that ignores basic morality, like "Future Sin is Forgiven Us", or "Unconditional Election," etc.). People never really stop to examine their beliefs in light of whether or not it is morally good or wholesome.

#6. Keyword search studies (This is doing a search on how a particular word appears in the Bible and how it is used elsewhere as a way to determine other difficult passages or verses that are commonly taken out of context by others; I use BlueLetterBible, and PureKingJames software when I look up words to study sometimes).

#7. Realize that some words even in Modern Bibles may sometimes be archaic (older) that were influenced from the King James Bible. It does not mean these words are not correct, it just means that they are not in use anymore or as often. I use KingJamesBibleDictionary.com, Websters 1913, and other English dictionaries. A Defined King James Bible (by BibleForToday), or Archaic words and the Authorized Version by Laurence M. Vance are great tools (even if you may not hold to the view that King James Bible is superior in accuracy (not clarity) to other Bible translations like I do).

#8. Looking at what other believers have to say (I am not talking about the popular Bible commentators; I usually read a ton of Christian articles on a particular verse or passage from Bible Alone Trinitarian believers by scouring the internet and in praying to find the right answer).

#9. One needs to be born again by the Spirit and born by water (i.e. being born by water = being born by the Scriptures in the fact that we received the Word of God not as the words of men, but in fact as the very divine words of God Himself; Meaning, His Word is perfect and without error, and we have been broken and transformed by them with a godly sorrow in accepting Christ as our Savior and in believing in Christ's death and resurrection on our behalf).

#10. We need to agree with true godly living as the Bible describes it, and we need to be walking the talk; 1 Timothy 6:3-4 says that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. 1 John 2:3 says we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. The closer our walk in knowing the Lord, the closer we will be in our understanding of God's Word. For if we are not loving according to God's Word, we cannot have the depth of understanding of the deep things or treasures within God's Word.

Something else that might come in handy—— Try to Understand What “ The Blind Leading the Blind” means.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Believers must meet the bare minimum requirements for holy living according to the New Testament to enter the Kingdom.




If this is the case, please tell us what this “ bare-minimum” is .....SALVATION itself is at Stake! Nobody can be perfect, so how “perfect” dies one have to be to become “ WORTHY” of Salvation.....90 %......73%........51% sounds logical ....

Holding back the All- Important information to get Saved is a severe dereliction of duty! Why didn’t Jesus or Paul or SOMEBODY clue us in ? Oh, the Humanity!

Now as for me personally, I gave up on percentages and trying to be “ worthy” a long time ago....good luck to all you people trusting in your Performance.....I know that I am * MADE* Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb—- My approach gives Jesus 100% of the Credit and Glory for my Salvation and poor ol’ BB gets NONE.....just the way God wants it.... you’ll discover this some day....

You guys BOASTING in your “ changes” and your “ morality” will be the ones that hear, “ Depart from Me, I Never knew you!”

I will be boasting more than all of you guys combined! The difference will be that instead of Boasting about what * I* did, I will be Boasting about what * HE* did.......I am Warning you—- you had better get this straight!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

569

As Paul taught in Romans 7:15-20, from God’s viewpoint, when a Believer Sins, It is not the Believer That is Doing it.....it is the Sin Nature that is “ inside” the Believer

The sin nature is not inside the believer. It’s inside the old man:

“…which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts” (Ephesians 4:22)

This is why you must put on the new man:

“…which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” (Ephesians 4:24)

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” (Romans 7:5)

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you…” (Romans 8:9)

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Romans 6:6-7)

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.” (Galatians 5:24)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The phrase “self-righteousness” is an unbiblical term. Heretics usually create these unbiblical terms, like “Trinity” and “God-man” as well.



I’ll say it again—- I Hate to be so repetitious , but I can’t help myself ! It really “ IS” like “ Shooting Fish in a Barrel !

Luke 18:9-11.......”And He Told this parable to those that Trusted in themselves ( Paul later said that this was Damnable ) .....and thought that they were “ righteous” , and viewed others with contempt .... ( ring a bell, you modern- day , self - righteous hypocrites ? )

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Uh, Paul was referring to his past life of being a sinner. He never said he continued as a sinner (present tense) saved by grace. You really love to make God’s people to justify sin when they didn’t.

Paul said “I **DO** what I hate to do!” ....Using “your” Twisted and Confused Logic, Paul was the dumbest writer that ever lived....He meant to say “ did” but constantly and consistently used the word “ do”...... lol.....how laughable this is .....please show me in the history of writing and literature where anybody ELSE did this!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I do not take the idea of teaching the Bible lightly as not many should be teachers. Those who teach will receive greater condemnation if they are in error.

I appreciate your concern but we simply do not agree on what a biblical view on grace and salvation are.

I did consider what you said back then. But I read the Word of God for myself and for that reason, I reject your doctrine with all of my heart.

You say that sins are covered by the blood of Jesus. But the Bible is clear that to keep on sinning is to trample the blood of Jesus underfoot. We all come to Christ as sinners but we need not remain that way.

If you could show me Scripture that backs up faith alone doctrine, I would heed you. But you've been refuted with multiple Scriptures many times and you just double down and repeat the same phrases again and again.

If I am wrong, why not show me with Scripture? You discouraging me from teaching the Bible will be ignored if you don't.

Show you Scripture ? Why ? It’s like trying to explain colors to a blind man....You will near understand or Trust in Grace as long as it has not been extended to you....do what you want....you will anyway...May God help those that listen to your False and Perverted Gospel Of Works....

As always, trying to help the Newbies that have not yet been ruined by your ilk and its Leaven....I will leave a verse that proves the Validity of Faith Alone for Salvation .......

In Luke 7:50, Jesus told a woman that he had healed—-“ Go in Peace, your Faith in Me has Saved you”

Don’t take this paucity Of Verses as a sign of weakness....I could put forth dozens of Scriptures to prove my Point , but years ago I wasted many hours on trying to teach you the Truth Of The Gospel .....I’m not going to waste my time with you again.....read Galatians 1:8..... May you’re” Ministry” be as “ Accursed” as you might turn about to be....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And yet these who were “sealed” were still vulnerable to this happening:

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:3)



True.....they were “ vulnerable” to many things—— Salvation NOT being one of them

Jesus said, “ Those that Believe in Me * ALREADY HAVE* Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation” ......

Your arguments are with Jesus and Not me.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Where does the Bible say that God must always chastise us even if we live righteously?
What is dumb about your understanding on chastisement is that you fail to recognize that chastisement is to get the person to stop sinning. It's like a master who chastises his dog for pooping on the carpets. The goal of chastisement is to get the animal to stop pooping on the carpet. Now, you guys say you are slaves to your sin in some way in this life. Now, imagine if the dog had an uncontrollable pooping problem because it was sick and the master knew this fact. Yet, the master kicked the dog like a football as a part of the OSAS version of chastising the poor little guy. Yet, the master knows the dog cannot help himself. So chastisement in this case does not make any sense. Why correct an animal if it cannot help itself? This is just one of the many problems with your belief.

What’s the matter with you? Any idiot knows that the purpose of Chastisement is to try to get somebody to abandon a particular sin...

If I tell my daughter not to take the car for some reason and she does it anyway, knowing full well that what she is doing is wrong, I am going to Chastise her....and I don’t Chastise her to “ get my jollies”..... I do it for her own good....Obeying one’s parents can save the life of a child sometimes....they must learn to obey....sometimes Chastisement or the threat of it can keep a child in line....if my daughter disobeys and I punish her because of it and if she understands That if she does it again the punishment will be worse....The hope is that the Disobedience will stop....God Works in the same manner....

What part of “ Chastisement” do I fail to see in your eyes?