What Are we Getting Saved From?

[Aunty Jane]

I believe we are being saved from the consequences of our sin. I'm not talking about hell, after our lives our finished. I'm talking about the consequences of our sin here on earth.

Getting to the root cause of the problem helps us understand why we sin in the first place, and the measures that God has put in place for us to qualify for his forgiveness....because even though Jesus died for all, because we all sin to a greater or lesser extent....not all will obtain that forgiveness. We have to do our part....and repentance accompanied by works that demonstrate it, are essential.

 

[Bob Estey]

Getting to the root cause of the problem helps understand why we sin in the first place, and the measures that God has put in place for us to qualify for his forgiveness....because even though Jesus died for all, because we all sin to a greater or lesser extent....not all will obtain that forgiveness. We have to do our part....and repentance accompanied by works that demonstrate it, are essential.

Have you figured out what the root cause of the problem is?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Have you figured out what the root cause of the problem is?

Definitely.....the Bible tells us without ambiguity....

Romans 5:8-12....
“But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more, then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood, will we be saved through him from wrath. 10 For if when we were enemies we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more we will be saved by his life, now that we have become reconciled. 11 Not only that, but we are also rejoicing in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

So the “wrath” is God’s anger directed at those who wilfully reject him as their Sovereign....choosing instead to follow the world alienated from him under satan’s influence. (1 John 5:19; James 4:4)

You see the words “reconciled” and “reconciliation” in those verses? What was it that alienated humans from God in the first place?
It was the disobedience of Adam.....“one man” not “one man and one woman”.....if Adam had made a different decision, a different outcome would have been the result. The woman was deceived, but Adam was not.....so it was his responsibility to act in obedience to the commands of his Creator and to do so even when others (including family members) do the opposite.

We can imitate Adam’s example or Christ’s....remember the devil’s temptation of Jesus? What did satan want from Jesus? And what was he going to give him in exchange?
Like a bad politician, the devil can never deliver what he promises......Adam found that out. By joining his wife in a course of disobedience, he plunged the entire human race into sin and death along with them...now carrying the defect of sin, it was passed on to all his offspring.

Right at the outset, God had his plan of salvation all worked out. He had to respond to their free willed choices, therefore no one is predestined to live or die....it is by their own decisions that they either comply with God’s directives....or not. We can be “declared righteous” by Christ’s blood, but only if we live as Christ lived. That is what being a Christian means.

 

[Jack]

You are aware that "a lake of fire and brimstone" is a metaphor.

Says who? Kingdom Hall maybe?

A wonderful, all powerful, loving creator would never put one of his creations in a lake of fire and brimstone for eternity to suffer the burning sensation of a fire, 24/7 X trillions of years. Think about it.

You don't believe in eternal life? It's the exact same Greek word, ETERNAL!

I can think of God separating Himself from his creation, and His creation finally realizing that for trillions of years he/she would not have the tender care of a loving creator ever again. No knew knowledge, no expansion, no challenges to keep you interested in something. And then he realizes that his lackluster condition was wrought because he simply did not believe in God and His Christ and do their will. His life was miserable on earth and his after life will be more miserable.

So stay on the right track and what is in store for you from God will be so tremendous that your brain cannot fathom it, and what it will be like will never enter your heart until it happens. I look forward to that day.

No Scripture? Of course not. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

 

[Bob Estey]

Definitely.....the Bible tells us without ambiguity....

Romans 5:8-12....
“But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more, then, since we have now been declared righteous by his blood, will we be saved through him from wrath. 10 For if when we were enemies we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more we will be saved by his life, now that we have become reconciled. 11 Not only that, but we are also rejoicing in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.

So the “wrath” is God’s anger directed at those who wilfully reject him as their Sovereign....choosing instead to follow the world alienated from him under satan’s influence. (1 John 5:19; James 4:4)

You see the words “reconciled” and “reconciliation” in those verses? What was it that alienated humans from God in the first place?
It was the disobedience of Adam.....“one man” not “one man and one woman”.....if Adam had made a different decision, a different outcome would have been the result. The woman was deceived, but Adam was not.....so it was his responsibility to act in obedience to the commands of his Creator and to do so even when others (including family members) do the opposite.

We can imitate Adam’s example or Christ’s....remember the devil’s temptation of Jesus? What did satan want from Jesus? And what was he going to give him in exchange?
Like a bad politician, the devil can never deliver what he promises......Adam found that out. By joining his wife in a course of disobedience, he plunged the entire human race into sin and death along with them...now carrying the defect of sin, it was passed on to all his offspring.

Right at the outset, God had his plan of salvation all worked out. He had to respond to their free willed choices, therefore no one is predestined to live or die....it is by their own decisions that they either comply with God’s directives....or not. We can be “declared righteous” by Christ’s blood, but only if we live as Christ lived. That is what being a Christian means.

It would seem to me that at some point in my life, I made the decision to commit my first sin. It doesn't seem to me that Adam did it for me.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

It would seem to me that at some point in my life, I made the decision to commit my first sin. It doesn't seem to me that Adam did it for me.

Of course he didn't. It was by one man, Adam, that sin entered the world. Though Eve and Adam were together at the time and Eve ate first.

Because sin was then in the world when you transgressed God's law, i.e didn't do what was right, you sinned.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It would seem to me that at some point in my life, I made the decision to commit my first sin. It doesn't seem to me that Adam did it for me.

@Blue Dragonfly's gets it ......"sin" was not IN the world until Adam introduced it in by disobeying his God. (Romans 5:12)
If sin was not in the world until Adam decided to disobey his rightful ruler, then death was also NOT in the world, because death only came as a result of sin. No sin would have meant no death.

Jesus came to balance out the scales of God's perfect justice...."an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth...a life for a life"....the life lost was sinless human life for all of Adam's offspring, so an equivalent life had to be offered to pay the debt.
This is what makes Jesus a "redeemer". The price is set and once it is paid, the one redeemed goes free.

So many people fail to understand why Jesus was "sent". (John 17:3) He was the only one God trusted to carry out the assignment. He was born as a sinless, free willed human (the exact equivalent of Adam) so that upon his death, all mankind would be free of the debt that Adam left for them.

This is why Jesus cannot be God....the Creator is an immortal and therefore cannot die. His life could never be the equivalent of Adam's anyway....it would have been a ridiculous over payment even if it could have been offered....but there was no reason because God has servants to carry out his will.
Jesus is called God's "holy servant" whom he "anointed".....God cannot be his own servant. (Acts 4:27)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Says who? Kingdom Hall maybe?

The Kingdom Hall is a building.....it doesn't talk.

You don't believe in eternal life? It's the exact same Greek word, ETERNAL!

You really have no idea, do you? How long does "eternity" last? Its another way of saying "forever"....
There is no such place as "hell" because there is nothing that survives the death of the body in order to go there. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

"Hell" (Gehenna) is a symbolic place that means eternal death...a place from which no one is resurrected.
Jesus was Jewish and the Jews had no belief in life after death.....the whole "immortal soul" doctrine was adopted from pagan Greek ideas.

No Scripture? Of course not. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

Again, your ignorance is showing...."hell" is taken from three Greek words.....none of which mean a place where people are tortured alive forever......"sheol" in Hebrew...means "hades" in Greek.....there are no conscious beings in "hades/sheol" and there are no conscious beings in "Gehenna".....do some research on Gehenna and see that nothing alive was ever thrown into it.....do you know why? It was the city's garbage dump, and things were thrown in there to be disposed of. Fires were kept burning day and night to dispose of the rubbish. Those thrown into Gehenna were 'garbage' to God. He would remember them no more.

In order to suffer eternal torment, something has to be alive eternally....and God only promised eternal life to the righteous, not the wicked.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The Kingdom Hall is a building.....it doesn't talk.

LoL Well done.

You really have no idea, do you? How long does "eternity" last? Its another way of saying "forever"....
There is no such place as "hell" because there is nothing that survives the death of the body in order to go there. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)

"Hell" (Gehenna) is a symbolic place that means eternal death...a place from which no one is resurrected.
Jesus was Jewish and the Jews had no belief in life after death.....the whole "immortal soul" doctrine was adopted from pagan Greek ideas.


Again, your ignorance is showing...."hell" is taken from three Greek words.....none of which mean a place where people are tortured alive forever......"sheol" in Hebrew...means "hades" in Greek.....there are no conscious beings in "hades/sheol" and there are no conscious beings in "Gehenna".....do some research on Gehenna and see that nothing alive was ever thrown into it.....do you know why? It was the city's garbage dump, and things were thrown in there to be disposed of. Fires were kept burning day and night to dispose of the rubbish. Those thrown into Gehenna were 'garbage' to God. He would remember them no more.

In order to suffer eternal torment, something has to be alive eternally....and God only promised eternal life to the righteous, not the wicked.

''And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.'' Ecclesiastes 12:7 [ESV]

 

[Aunty Jane]

''And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.'' Ecclesiastes 12:7 [ESV]

What is the “spirit” that returns to God? The spirit is not the “soul”...
Most people think that these two words are interchangeable.....but they have entirely different meanings in their original languages.

When Adam was created, God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living soul”.....the spirit in man is that which animates him. Adam was a lifeless body until God started him breathing. A living, breathing creature is a soul....the spirit or the breath is what keeps every cell in a mortal body alive.

Both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which also means “breath.” So it is not describing a living part of humans that survives death.....the Bible does not teach that we have a conscious, separate part of us that goes on living when we die. That idea came from the pagan Greeks, just one of many pagan adoptions.

Psalms 146:3-4....
“Do not trust in noblemen, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; On that very day his plans perish.” (NASB)
When the spirit departs, that is the last breath....a soul dies when it breathing stops. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Solomon wrote....
“For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten. Indeed their love, their hate, and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10 - NASB)

“Sheol” is the grave.....a place of complete inactivity. The Greek equivalent is “hades” so everyone goes there when they die.....hades is not Christendom’s “hell”.

It was Solomon who also lamented that humans have no superiority over animals in death....
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20...
“For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, [spirit] and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. (NASB)
Like Adam, humans return to the dust.....but any prospects for a restoration of life was by resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This is what Jews believed from their scripture.....there is no conscious part of man that survives death. Jesus was Jewish so this is what he also taught.

Therefore, the “spirit that returns to God” is the breath of life, restored by him when a person is resurrected in the new world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.

 

[Bob Estey]

@Blue Dragonfly's gets it ......"sin" was not IN the world until Adam introduced it in by disobeying his God. (Romans 5:12)
If sin was not in the world until Adam decided to disobey his rightful ruler, then death was also NOT in the world, because death only came as a result of sin. No sin would have meant no death.

Jesus came to balance out the scales of God's perfect justice...."an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth...a life for a life"....the life lost was sinless human life for all of Adam's offspring, so an equivalent life had to be offered to pay the debt.
This is what makes Jesus a "redeemer". The price is set and once it is paid, the one redeemed goes free.

So many people fail to understand why Jesus was "sent". (John 17:3) He was the only one God trusted to carry out the assignment. He was born as a sinless, free willed human (the exact equivalent of Adam) so that upon his death, all mankind would be free of the debt that Adam left for them.

This is why Jesus cannot be God....the Creator is an immortal and therefore cannot die. His life could never be the equivalent of Adam's anyway....it would have been a ridiculous over payment even if it could have been offered....but there was no reason because God has servants to carry out his will.
Jesus is called God's "holy servant" whom he "anointed".....God cannot be his own servant. (Acts 4:27)

I was just re-reading the account of the first sin. Eve was the first to eat of the forbidden fruit (Genesis 3:6).

But it only makes sense that Adam and Eve were the first to sin, since they were the first on earth.

 

[amadeus]

what is the diff in knowing and what is it?

The difference between God and a man? God knows and man asks [or should be asking].

Shall we become more like Him?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

And the manna offered to us continues to ask or answer the question: What is it?

!m Man (mawn); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 4478

1. manna
   1. the bread from Heaven that fed the Israelites for 40 years of wilderness wanderings
   2. means 'What is it?'

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

What is the “spirit” that returns to God? The spirit is not the “soul”...
Most people think that these two words are interchangeable.....but they have entirely different meanings in their original languages.

When Adam was created, God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living soul”.....the spirit in man is that which animates him. Adam was a lifeless body until God started him breathing. A living, breathing creature is a soul....the spirit or the breath is what keeps every cell in a mortal body alive.

Both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which also means “breath.” So it is not describing a living part of humans that survives death.....the Bible does not teach that we have a conscious, separate part of us that goes on living when we die. That idea came from the pagan Greeks, just one of many pagan adoptions.

Psalms 146:3-4....
“Do not trust in noblemen, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; On that very day his plans perish.” (NASB)
When the spirit departs, that is the last breath....a soul dies when it breathing stops. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Solomon wrote....
“For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten. Indeed their love, their hate, and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10 - NASB)

“Sheol” is the grave.....a place of complete inactivity. The Greek equivalent is “hades” so everyone goes there when they die.....hades is not Christendom’s “hell”.

It was Solomon who also lamented that humans have no superiority over animals in death....
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20...
“For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, [spirit] and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. (NASB)
Like Adam, humans return to the dust.....but any prospects for a restoration of life was by resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This is what Jews believed from their scripture.....there is no conscious part of man that survives death. Jesus was Jewish so this is what he also taught.

Therefore, the “spirit that returns to God” is the breath of life, restored by him when a person is resurrected in the new world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.

Psalm 146 reiterates the Ecclesiastes 12 verse.

I believe the soul and the spirit are both from God. As is all that exists.

Good talking with you. Not many here engage with me.

 

[keithr]

If God’s instructions to our first parents are not clear, then we have not read them correctly and are trying to read into them things that are just not there.

God's instructions to Adam tell us nothing about God's reasons for creating the earth and humankind. i thought your question was "why did God create humans and place them on the earth?", not "what did God instruct humans to do?". Similarly, why did God create the angels? What was the purpose or reason for God creating all these intelligent living beings?

 

[Mantis]

We are either getting saved from an eternal Hell or utter destruction of our spirits. I hope it is the latter as it almost seems unfair. This world is nothing but problems and choices. This world can almost be a hell of its own in a sense.

You can go through so much suffering in the physical and spiritual here. This is just a test. Who can endure? Who will stay with God? Will you endure and love God or succumb to corruption of the world and hate God?

 

[keithr]

Therefore, the “spirit that returns to God” is the breath of life, restored by him when a person is resurrected in the new world to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom.

I used to believe that too, but if there is no part of us that survives death (no non-physical part, because all physical parts perish) then a resurrection would just be a clone of us and not actually us. How do you understand the following verses (all from the WEB)?

Matthew 10:28

(28) Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.​

Luke 23:46

(46) Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” Having said this, he breathed his last.​

Acts 7:59

(59) They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”​

 

[bbyrd009]

We are getting saved from the eternal punishment of being destroyed post resurrection.

can you Quote that?

 

[bbyrd009]

We are either getting saved from an eternal Hell or utter destruction of our spirits

can you Quote either of those

 

[Mantis]

can you Quote either of those

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not ableto kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both souland body in hell

Isa 5:14 - Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it

 

[Skovand1075]

can you Quote that?

There are many verses that say that. So let’s work through it.

the saved receive eternal life right?
The unsaved don’t receive eternal life right?

what’s the purpose of the white throne judgement?

what’s the point of your name being called in the book of life? What happens if your name is called? What happens if it’s not called?

so when you your name is called you’re saved right?