The Day of The Lord, Wrong Timing Applied

[Davy]

No problem whatsoever, you reject the "River Of Life" seen below in Zechariah 14:8 in the "Eternal Kingdom"

You are all MIXED UP because of the Amillennialism doctrine from men that you follow. It has blinded you from properly understanding about the return of God's River back to this earth when Jesus returns. And that River will include the manifesting of the Tree of Life with it.

The Zechariah 14:16 verse about the leftovers of the nations that came against Jerusalem shows they will exist ALONG WITH THE TIME OF THAT RIVER of Zechariah 14:8! That means of course that Zechariah 14:8 is NOT God's new heaven and a new earth timing! Furthermore, NONE of the wicked are supposed to exist when Jesus returns per the false doctrine of men that YOU follow. Yet, there they still are, per that Zechariah 14:16 verse!

So you have left your common sense because of your heeding doctrines of men.

 

[Davy]

Evidently, you need more clarity to keep you from side stepping the point I am making.
KJV-2 Peter 3:1-7
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days SCOFFERS [G1703], walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[5] For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Yeah, you're like one of those street preachers that likes to try and exalt yourself by abusing Scripture like you did above. You don't have a clue as to what Apostle Peter was actually talking about there.

 

[Earburner]

To say that Jesus' resurrection was that "first resurrection" is to wrongly suggest that the "thousand years" began when Jesus rose, and also back then His elect began reigning over the nations back then, and THAT idea is a falsehood.

In essence that is EXACTLY what I am saying, but you should know that "Born Again Christians" DO NOT rule over anyone!!
In the period of our lifetime, during this Age of God's Grace (the figurative 1000 years*), we are "reigning with Christ" in His stead, as "ambassadors" for the KoG and the salvation of others. 2 Corinthians 5:20.

* Note: 2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance [since Pentecost**].
(**edited)

 

[Earburner]

Yeah, you're like one of those street preachers that likes to try and exalt yourself by abusing Scripture like you did above. You don't have a clue as to what Apostle Peter was actually talking about there.

Do you have something different to say, that is contrary to the scriptures I posted?
If so, then 2 Peter 3:1-7 speaks against your way of thinking, and not me.
"Scoffer"
Strong's Number - G1703
Greek: ἐμπαίκτης
Transliteration: empaiktēs
Pronunciation: emp-aheek-tace'
Definition: From G1702; a derider that is (by implication) a false teacher: - mocker scoffer.
KJV Usage: mockers (1x), scoffers (1x).
Occurs: 2
In verses: 2

 

[Earburner]

There are several prophesies which clearly state there will be a new Temple and sacrifices and offerings will be made in it. I believe them.

Then apparently, you are not yet up to date on God's meaning of the entirety of KJV Daniel 9:24-27.

 

[Timtofly]

Here is the problem with the OT prophets: none of them could discern or know in which three comings/appearances of Jesus, was God's thoughts describing through their words.
Why?
None of them had, nor were they allowed to have, the permanency of the Holy Spirit (the Promise to come) residing within them.
Why?
Matt.13[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. John 18:20

Your opinion does not make a reasonable argument. Even the first century disciples with the power of the Holy Spirit did not fully understand the timing nor the thousands of years left on earth.

The Holy Spirit was given for the express purpose of spreading the Gospel. The message was about the Atonement of the Cross. Not the future of Israel and what would happen 3,000 years later.

The Holy Spirit is not a coming of Christ. The Holy Spirit is a coming of the Lord in the person of the Holy Spirit. God came directly to Moses, not the Word, nor the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came many times to the OT prophets. When the Lord appears to humans in any of the 3 persons, it does not mean they will automatically understand all things. In obedience to God, a person will understand a particular message given by God, even if they do not see all of the future ramifications of that message.

In your post you are trying to declare the mind of individual OT authors. That is impossible, and I am not sure why posters here think they have the ability to state what thoughts humans have in their minds at any given moment.

Why would an event 3,000 years in the future, make someone think any differently about that event? Stating they did not fully understand seems dubious. Even people who actually live in each fulfillment of prophecy do not fully understand what was written in God's Word, nor what is happening nor soon to happen either.

Many here do not even accept Revelation as John wrote it. They want to change the words and format to fit their theological bias.

In essence that is EXACTLY what I am saying, but you should know that "Born Again Christians" DO NOT rule over anyone!!
In the period of our lifetime, during this Age of God's Grace (the figurative 1000 years*), we are "reigning with Christ" in His stead, as "ambassadors" for the KoG and the salvation of others. 2 Corinthians 5:20.

* Note: 2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance [since Pentecost**].
(**edited)

You have proof, those in Paradise do not rule over any one right this very minute, and since the Cross? The sons of God were in council with God back in the OT. Why would the church in Paradise not rule over humans even today?

You deny both a future rule of Christ on earth for 1,000 years, while also denying the current rule of the church in Paradise concurrently since the Cross. You are stuck in the rut, they are waiting for a physical resurrection. They are not. The hour of a physical resurrection, happened back when Lazarus heard the voice of Jesus and walked out of his physical grave. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life back in the first century. That is not some future ability, at some one time resurrection point.

The dead stand before God, after heaven and earth stop existing, when current creation is handed back to God and declared completed by Jesus Christ the King.

The Day of the Lord happens first. That 1,000 year reign on earth.

 

[Earburner]

Your opinion does not make a reasonable argument. Even the first century disciples with the power of the Holy Spirit did not fully understand the timing nor the thousands of years left on earth.

My "opinion" is scriptural and truthful.
Of course the disciples couldn't know how long the Age of God's Grace would be. Jesus Himself still doesn't know when He shall "come" the third time, in the fulness of His fiery and Immortal Glory. Matthew 24[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Why?
God is not willing that any should perish, and therefore He extends His Age of Grace, as long as people are continuing to repent towards Him, through faith in His Son.

2 Peter 3:7-15
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is [for our] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

 

[Earburner]

You have proof, those in Paradise do not rule over any one right this very minute, and since the Cross?

There is a depth of scripture that you are not seeing.
Malachi 3:16 is about those of Israel, whose names are in God's "book of Remembrance", and are seen in Revelation 6:9-11.
What was it, that they each had received?
At what time after Jesus' Ascension, did they receive it?
What are they doing right now?

By the way, the word "remembrance" is synonymous with the word "altar". Do you know why?

 

[Earburner]

The Holy Spirit is not a coming of Christ. The Holy Spirit is a coming of the Lord in the person of the Holy Spirit.

KJV-John 14[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth*; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he* dwelleth with you, and shall be in you*.
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will COME to you*.

* Note:
John.14[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will COME unto him, and make our abode with him.

> Ever since Pentecost, by His Spirit, has the Lord ever stopped COMING to people?

Rev.3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will COME in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
1. Jesus has come to us in the flesh.
2. Jesus is still coming to us by His Spirit.
3. Jesus shall come for us in all His Immortal Glory.

Yes, the visible churches of "church-ianity" have messed things up, in regards to the three comings of Jesus.
What else have they messed up?
Plenty!!
Edit:
Rom.8[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Earburner]

There are several prophesies which clearly state there will be a new Temple and sacrifices and offerings will be made in it. I believe them.

The given sequence of them in Revelation, refutes the idea that they are one event. I reject your theory.

Explain what is meant by; ...over them, their second death has no power.... Rev 20:6
Note that those GT martyrs are just brought back to life. NOT made immortal yet.

Scoffing about the clearly Prophesied Millennium, is your mistake.

A future 1000 literal years of Jesus Glorified, on a remodeled/made over earth, with the resurrected, immortal saints, ruling over flesh and blood people who die, is a fabrication of the Jewish theory of the 7 day week.
They have superimposed and magnified the days of the week into a literal 6000 years, plus a sabbatical 1000 years. The Jews didn't have the mind of Christ then, and they surely do not have it now.
Basically, it is revolting to me.

 

[Keraz]

A future 1000 literal years of Jesus Glorified, on a remodeled/made over earth, with the resurrected, immortal saints, ruling over flesh and blood people who die, is a fabrication of the Jewish theory of the 7 day week.
They have superimposed and magnified the days of the week into a literal 6000 years, plus a sabbatical 1000 years. The Jews didn't have the mind of Christ then, and they surely do not have it now.
Basically, it is revolting to me.

The truth of God's 7000 year Plan for mankind, is proved by the exact 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, then 2000 years Abraham to Jesus, and now nearly another 2000 years; when Jesus will Return; to reign on earth for the final 1000 years.
It seems that the Bible and the facts of history are revolting to you.

 

[Earburner]

The truth of God's 7000 year Plan for mankind, is proved by the exact 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, then 2000 years Abraham to Jesus, and now nearly another 2000 years; when Jesus will Return; to reign on earth for the final 1000 years.
It seems that the Bible and the facts of history are revolting to you.

In the history of man, by years, I am in understanding of it. Simply by my own calculations, from Adam to Noah, I came to the figure of 1656 years, which is the identical amount of years calculated by: Rev. James Ussher’s Annals of the World, first published in 1658. (Site below).
I did not know of his work until much later in my life
Bible Timeline | Houston Baptist University

Given the math already calculated to 1801, and then pushing that out to the year 2022, it would be 5996 years, that man has been on the earth. It appears, from that number, we are only 4 years away from the Lord's return from Heaven. That is If we are going to go by the formula of one literal day is literally 1000 years to the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

^ cont'd.
Does anyone here want to set a date for the genealogical time of the 6000th year, or in our time, being the year 2026?? I'm not going to, and I will show why.
2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day IS with the Lord AS a thousand years, and a thousand years [IS] AS one day.
> Here is the problem that I am seeing:
if the former part of the verse reads as being only: "one day IS with the Lord AS a thousand years". OK I can understand that, and go with it.

Or, if the latter part of the verse reads as being only: "... a thousand years [IS] AS one day [with the Lord]". That I can understand, and go with that also.
But, the Holy Spirit through Peter, put them together, and since it is written together, each cancels the other one out, causing a conundrum, forcing one to draw a conclusion that doesn't agree or support either one.
In other words, through the use of our understanding of "time", altogether it is a statement that is diametrically opposed to itself.

So then, from whose perspective, shall it make each one agreeable to the other, thus making sense of it?
We are not to understand it by our sense of "time", but rather by God's "eternity". Therefore, all that the verse is saying is, there is no preordained time limit on how long God's Grace will continue in the world.
The true factor for it's continuation is based on repentance torwards God. If there are no more that come to repentance towards God, He will give Jesus the word for Him to return for His saints, and that He will do suddenly.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are all MIXED UP because of the Amillennialism doctrine from men that you follow. It has blinded you from properly understanding about the return of God's River back to this earth when Jesus returns. And that River will include the manifesting of the Tree of Life with it.

The Zechariah 14:16 verse about the leftovers of the nations that came against Jerusalem shows they will exist ALONG WITH THE TIME OF THAT RIVER of Zechariah 14:8! That means of course that Zechariah 14:8 is NOT God's new heaven and a new earth timing! Furthermore, NONE of the wicked are supposed to exist when Jesus returns per the false doctrine of men that YOU follow. Yet, there they still are, per that Zechariah 14:16 verse!

So you have left your common sense because of your heeding doctrines of men.

Of course Zechariah chapter 14 is the eternal kingdom, mortal humans won't have access to this river, it's eternal and where it flows brings life

Your problem is, you need to give up on a future millennial kingdom on this earth, found no place in scripture

 

[Keraz]

In the history of man, by years, I am in understanding of it. Simply by my own calculations, from Adam to Noah, I came to the figure of 1656 years, which is the identical amount of years calculated by: Rev. James Ussher’s Annals of the World, first published in 1658. (Site below).
I did not know of his work until much later in my life
Bible Timeline | Houston Baptist University

Given the math already calculated to 1801, and then pushing that out to the year 2022, it would be 5996 years, that man has been on the earth. It appears, from that number, we are only 4 years away from the Lord's return from Heaven. That is If we are going to go by the formula of one literal day is literally 1000 years to the Lord.

It was not possible for anyone before now to find the exact times for mankind. Daniel 12:4 & 9, say that no one would be able to understand the Prophesies until very close to the end times.
Ussher, and all those who tried to make a timeline, were wrong as they were too soon, but I have an accurate addition of the times as given in the Bible, tied to the known date of the Babylonian conquest of Judah.
It is on my website, free to see.

It is certain that we are at least 7 years away from the glorious Return of Jesus.

 

[Davy]

In essence that is EXACTLY what I am saying, but you should know that "Born Again Christians" DO NOT rule over anyone!!
In the period of our lifetime, during this Age of God's Grace (the figurative 1000 years*), we are "reigning with Christ" in His stead, as "ambassadors" for the KoG and the salvation of others. 2 Corinthians 5:20.

* Note: 2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance [since Pentecost**].
(**edited)

Like I said, you don't have a clue what Peter was talking about in 2 Peter 3. All you know how to do is quote Scripture you only 'think' is relevant, and just regurgitate men's doctrines you have been fed, showing you don't think for yourself.

 

[Davy]

Of course Zechariah chapter 14 is the eternal kingdom, mortal humans won't have access to this river, it's eternal and where it flows brings life

No, it will still NOT... yet be God's 'new heavens and a new earth', which I know you are still wanting to point to.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
KJV

That above event is set to happen only after Christ's future return and start of His reign with His elect on earth. That "synagogue of Satan" represents the worst of Christ's enemies here on earth, i.e., the children of darkness, Satan's followers. That has never happened to this day. And the fact that those wicked are still present in that future time AFTER Christ's future return, reveals the wicked are not yet destroyed at His 2nd coming. That fact there is very plain, and doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to understand. One only need to be about 5% smarter than the ink and paper that is printed on to understand it.

Here is another example of the time after Christ's future return, when God's River of the Waters of Life and Tree of Life are re-established upon this earth as it once was (Gen.2), and the wicked are STILL present in that time...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

In Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect over the unsaved nations, there will be a separation from the wicked outside the gates of the holy city, and His people inside the gates of the holy city. This separation is even shown in Revelation 20:9 about the "camp of the saints", which is another title for the holy city and millennial temple that Jesus will build at His return, and after the thousand years Satan is loosed and tempts his followers outside to come up against that "camp of the saints" to try and destroy it, and they are all burned up by God.

In Ezekiel 44 during the future Millennium of Christ's reign, this separation is also shown between those who erred not being allowed to approach Christ, vs. Christ's faithful that serve Christ at His table. In the Ezekiel 47 chapter, the new Millennial temple is shown to Ezekiel which has never... been built to this day, and out of the sanctuary will flow God's River, and shown on either side of that River are the many trees (Tree of Life), bearing its fruits with the leaves as medicine for the nations. And the "dead" are outside... that holy city, but that doesn't mean literally dead in the ground, because everyone is resurrected on the day of Christ's future coming (John 5:28-29). Those 'dead' represent the unsaved nations that are OUTSIDE THE GATES OF THE HOLY CITY, like Revelation 22:14-15 shows, and which Satan will tempt at the end of the thousand years.

Lord Jesus taught about those who will be cast to the "outer darkness". Funny how few have studied enough of His Word to know anything about this, including those who keep pushing men's stupid doctrines they make up because God didn't give those men to understand His Word.

 

[Earburner]

Like I said, you don't have a clue what Peter was talking about in 2 Peter 3. All you know how to do is quote Scripture you only 'think' is relevant, and just regurgitate men's doctrines you have been fed, showing you don't think for yourself.

You really have a poor judgment about me.
Please hear me out! This is my testimony of what the Lord has done in me:)

I believed and lived by the Pre-millennial doctrine since 1975. I studied the KJV, listening to all kinds of works by other men on that view, taking it all in like a dry sponge. I thoroughly believed it hook, line and sinker. I only new of the other belief systems of the Millennium by a casual familiarity of viewing them, but never studying them.
Like you, I was staunch and vehementally adamant against them.

Because I wanted to expand my approach and understanding, I bought a Young's Literal translation Concordance for Hebrew and Greek words, and then picked up a Parallel Eight Translation NT Bible for free. It became an obsession to see how other specific NT translations rendered the meanings.
I literally had a small, stand alone bookcase full of many christian authors about pre-millennial teachings.

By 1990 I was in a state of depression and confusion, so much so, that I literally threw up my hands in complete frustration, crying out to the Lord saying: "I give up, who can know you?". With that, I ran back to the KJV and discovered His truth in John 16:13. The Lord was speaking to me through it, and from then on, I threw myself upon Him in complete faith and trust, that HE ALONE, from now on would teach me. To prove to Him that I was sincere and in complete and utter trust of His ability to be my ONLY "GUIDE", I trashed all my christian authored books, and literally tore up my eight translation NT, and burned it. To me, it was that much of a corruption, I didn't want it to fall into the hands of others.

In any case, I gave up on every approach to eschatology, and became thoroughly involved in simply knowing the Lord, through His Holy Spirit and the KJV Bible. From there, ever so slowly and indirectly, reading the KJV ONLY, He Himself was teaching me His understanding of eschatology. Never once did I make that association, until I felt His confidence in me to investigate eschatology again, but through the KJV only.

It was around 2010 when for the first time, I actually read and studied the basics of the Ammillennial view. I didn't even know the meaning of that word. It was then that I realized that I had been conformed to an updated, hybrid version of the Ammillennial view, without even trying or looking for it.

I have been completely delivered by the Lord from the Pre-millennial view, and have fully departed that which I had been taught by men, on every biblical topic of eschatology. I actually do know now, what John 8:36 really means.

To this day, I still don't agree with the traditional teaching of the Ammillenial view, by the teachings of men, but as for the Pre-mil view, I still remember the chaos of mind, that the Lord has delivered me from.

Thanks for listening!
In His Peace, Earburner

 

[Earburner]

No, it will still NOT... yet be God's 'new heavens and a new earth', which I know you are still wanting to point to.

Rev 3:9
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Sorry, but I must interject here.
It's all about the words "worship before thy feet", which is meaning who or Who is it, that we are allowing ourselves to be subject to, and therefore their instruction also.
Here are two points/parables that Jesus revealed about that, with the end results:
Luke 10:38-42 (clue- verses 39 and 42).
Matthew 25:1-13 (clue- verses 8, 11 and 12).

 

[Davy]

You really have a poor judgment about me.
Please hear me out! This is my testimony of what the Lord has done in me:)

I believed and lived by the Pre-millennial doctrine since 1975. I studied the KJV, listening to all kinds of works by other men on that view, taking it all in like a dry sponge. I thoroughly believed it hook, line and sinker. I only new of the other belief systems of the Millennium by a casual familiarity of viewing them, but never studying them.
Like you, I was staunch and vehementally adamant against them.

How many times have I heard that 'cop out' complaint like having, "lived by the Pre-millennial doctrine for most of my life', (sniffle, sniffle...), and only now have I come to the truth! But I was fooled, (sniffle, sniffle), but now I know the truth." I can almost hear you crying, that's such a cop out line of baloney! I may have fallen off a turnip truck, but I wasn't born yesterday. So that kind of stuff doesn't work on me, I know better, been around the world, worked with many different peoples of the world, and served my country.

I am... a Pre-millennialist, but the reason I am isn't because of some cry baby, "I was deceived" kind of bull. I believe the Pre-mill position because that IS... what is written in God's Holy Writ. And how I 'know' this is because of actually doing Bible study directly in His Word for myself (with God's help of course). It is actually a VERY EASY idea to know per His written Word, so when someone tries to tell me they were deceived from listening to men about it, INSTEAD OF checking it out for themselves in God's written Word, then I have to LAUGH at those kind of souls, because they deceived themselves by trusting in man, instead opening up The Word of God and thinking for theirself!

I don't have time to listen to the rest of your useless ranting. I don't believe it is authentic at all, not one iota. Nice stage play though, you ought to be in the movies!