Romans 6-8/ What did Paul mean by the word "sin?"

[Randy Kluth]

Sorry Randy but you are wrong! Also you reject in measure the Scriptures for formulating systematic theology, but you have a systematic theology whether you call it that or not and you usewhat you think the writers meant - IOW you are redefining the words on teh page. If this sounds harsh, it is for your benefit.

Saying, "your systematic theology is wrong" does not benefit me at all. What about it do you reject?

Paul told Timothy that ALL Scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof , correction and instruction in righteousness, that we will be complete for all good works.

We both agree that Scripture is inspired and reliable. And yet you suggest I'm wrong and are unable to say why.

If you think Paul is telling swtories and one has to discern what he really means, then why should I accept your words as you write them and not redefine them as you are the Word of God?

If you can't explain what is wrong about my statements, then I strongly encourage you to withdraw your criticism until you can actually put into words what your complaint is! Everything I said is 100% Scriptural. And yet you say it is against Scripture, but are unable to say where it does not align with Scripture. I have to conclude that you're a critic without any sense of what you're criticizing?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we must first define what Paul meant in Rom. 6-8 by the word "sin."

Why?

It is defined in the holy scriptures.

“…sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)

“All unrighteousness is sin..,” (1 John 5:17)

first let's define the sin nature according to the Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest.

No, let’s define sin according to the Bible.

 

[Charlie24]

Why?

It is defined in the holy scriptures.

“…sin is the transgression of the law.” (1 John 3:4)

“All unrighteousness is sin..,” (1 John 5:17)




No, let’s define sin according to the Bible.

If there is not a evil/sin nature, then Rom. 6-8 makes no sense. If we don't understand Rom. 6-8 victory over sin will seem impossible.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

51

I think a major issue and confusion comes from the definition of sin.

It is defined in the Bible.

Why are you confused?

in greek, the word comes from Hamarte, a term which means to miss the mark..to fall, or fail in ones purpose

In hebrew the word is Hatta (as in Gen 4) which means an offence..

Find out what it means in Bible usage.

Submit to your translation.

Stop studying, and start reading and fearing.

“…to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” (Isaiah 66:2)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If there is not a evil/sin nature, then Rom. 6-8 makes no sense. If we don't understand Rom. 6-8 victory over sin will seem impossible.

You want victory over sin Charlie?

Deny your flesh’s lustful evil desires.

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Because:

“…when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:8)

 

[Charlie24]

You want victory over sin Charlie?

Deny your flesh’s lustful evil desires.

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)

Because:

“…when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” (Galatians 6:8)

God has a prescribed order of victory for man, just as He has one way of salvation, and so on.

If you don't understand that way as Paul teaches us, then you will lead a defeated Christian life!

We all have knowledge of what sin is, what most don't know is what Paul is teaching in Rom. 6-8.

He's teaching us God's prescribed order of victory! It begins with the knowledge of the sinful nature.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

53

all you posts are focused on sin. Which means that you have a serious problem

In the King James Bible New Testament alone the words Sin, Wicked, Evil, and Unrighteousness (with their variants) appear 372 times.

The whole of scripture is focused on Sin versus Holiness.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If you don't understand that way as Paul teaches us

We all have knowledge of what sin is, what most don't know is what Paul is teaching in Rom. 6-8.

He's teaching us God's prescribed order of victory! It begins with the knowledge of the sinful nature.

The Paul-only cult is deceived. Get away from them quickly!!

Regardless, I quoted Paul to you TWICE and you still ignored it and proceeded with your Dispensational Theology speech.

 

[Charlie24]

The Paul-only cult is deceived. Get away from them quickly!!

Regardless, I quoted Paul to you TWICE and you still ignored it and proceeded with your Dispensational Theology speech.

You better believe I'm going with the one who was given the meaning of the New Covenant.

Paul explains it all because he was the one given the revelation to explain it all.

He was given almost 1/3 of the New Testament to do just that!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You better believe I'm going with the one who was given the meaning of the New Covenant.

Paul explains it all

“For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?” (1 Corinthians 3:4-5)

WAKE UP CARNAL MAN!!

 

[Charlie24]

“For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?” (1 Corinthians 3:4-5)

WAKE UP CARNAL MAN!!

“For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?” (1 Corinthians 3:4-5)

WAKE UP CARNAL MAN!!

1Cor. 11:1

" Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."

I wonder why the Holy Spirit had Paul to write this?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1Cor. 11:1

" Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."

Did you notice:

EVEN AS I ALSO FOLLOW CHRIST?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Following Paul is following Christ.

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)

Paul doesn’t write his own commandments @Charlie24

 

[Charlie24]

Following Paul is following Christ.

“If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37)

Paul doesn’t write his own commandments @Charlie24

We follow Christ by the wisdom Christ gave to Paul.

Without Christ giving to Paul the revelation of Christ, which is the meaning of the New Covenant, we would have no idea HOW to live for Christ. It would be a mystery! But through Paul it's not a mystery!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

But through Paul it's not a mystery!

So are the Epistles that Paul wrote the word of Paul, or the word of God?

Because Paul himself said that ALL scripture was profitable (2 Timothy 3:16), not just his scriptures.

 

[Charlie24]

So are the Epistles that Paul wrote the word of Paul, or the word of God?

Because Paul himself said that ALL scripture was profitable (2 Timothy 3:16), not just his scriptures.

What kind of question is that??? I have an idea, you follow Christ without Paul and I will follow Christ by Paul!

Peter, James, and John learned the meaning of the New Covenant from Paul! They didn't understand it completely but gave to Paul "the right hand of fellowship" knowing Christ had given him great wisdom of the New Covenant.

So if you don't want to follow Paul as he followed Christ, then don't, and remain in the dark!

 

[Randy Kluth]

I give a specific example: drunkenly fornicating. I do so in order to avoid any confusion. Drunkenly fornicating is a complete departure from Christ, while doing so. Even as thieving, robbery, bearing false witness... There is no fellowship with Christ and Belial at the same time.

The point is not so much what, but when: Now. While doing it. In the act.

The adulteress was guilty and dead in the act, though she has mercy of the Lord to confess humbly, be forgiven with opportunity to go and not do being doing it.

All that we have here is a declaration difference between you and I: you know that no person, while drunkenly fornicating, can possibly be a forgiven born son of God at the same time, but rather is a child of the devil, like any other soul on earth doing the same thing.

Allow me to add this. When you say a person is a "child of the devil" while he is sinning *now,* you are stating, quite frankly, that the person is damned. The Devil is damned. A Child of the Devil is damned.

A person does *not* get saved and unsaved repeatedly throughout his life. He does not get "unsaved" when he sins--not even if he gets drunk and fornicates on an occasion of particular weakness.

All sin is *forgiveable.* There will certainly be consequences to sin, but it is all forgivable. I consider it highly judgmental to say that one who is presently in sin is damned. That's my point.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Allow me to add this. When you say a person is a "child of the devil" while he is sinning *now,* you are stating, quite frankly, that the person is damned. The Devil is damned. A Child of the Devil is damned.

A person does *not* get saved and unsaved repeatedly throughout his life. He does not get "unsaved" when he sins--not even if he gets drunk and fornicates on an occasion of particular weakness.

All sin is *forgiveable.* There will certainly be consequences to sin, but it is all forgivable. I consider it highly judgmental to say that one who is presently in sin is damned. That's my point.

Sadly, the self righteous will never see it. They can’t see their own sins, and thus deny them or deny they are even sins.

I have also witnessed they are forced to judge other people. Because if they saw their own sin, their whole gospel would be defeated and, well, thats just not an option.. So you look down on others because it makes you hide the fact os admitting your own sin, because your “not as bad” as the pharisee did when they pumped their cheats “thank God I am not like the sinner”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, that's why I distinguished between "carcass" and "nature" in English, because the English word "flesh" does not convey the full reality of what Paul was saying.

\Just making sure.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sadly, the self righteous will never see it. They can’t see their own sins, and thus deny them or deny they are even sins.

I have also witnessed they are forced to judge other people. Because if they saw their own sin, their whole gospel would be defeated and, well, thats just not an option.. So you look down on others because it makes you hide the fact os admitting your own sin, because your “not as bad” as the pharisee did when they pumped their cheats “thank God I am not like the sinner”

I generally try not to appear "self-righteous" when dealing with what seems to be "self-righteousness!" Thanks, we agree! Grace is one of the most beautiful words in the English language. We should *never* sell it short. It is not an excuse for sin. It is a way out of the guilt caused by sin.