Is God finished with Israel?

[Reggie Belafonte]

I'm not sure why this matters, though it seems to me most people know whether they are Jewish or not. God knows who the Jews are, simple as that. As for people, the only question is are they lost or saved. It is irrelevant whether a person knows whether they are Jewish or not. Most Jews will be blind to the truth of the Messiah until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and at that point, only part of them will have their blindness removed. And the coming harvest of the Jews will be huge as we know that there are 144,000 first fruits of the coming harvest.

It never mattered at all that one was Jewish ? what mattered was they were to become Israelites ! that's worthy of God !

Not to mention when the hand full of Jews who were truly worthy of Moses, for they had to be in fact, so as to have faith in Jesus ?
If a Jew back in the days of Jesus walking on this earth meant Zip ! It was only the True worthy Jews in relation to God and they abided in Moses in fact and the others who did not abide in Moses are not worthy to God at all.

What does it take to be worthy of God ? in the OT ! Not to mention we see in the OT the facts of such all the way through.
Now what does it take to be worthy of Jesus Christ ? well you must be born again in fact ! then the deceptions and delusions are removed in fact. for that is the blindness of this world can not see in fact ! As I said one must be born again to see !

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Hosea was prophesying about the House of Israel, who are now referred to by the Jews; as Gentile peoples.

The ONE physical seed of Abraham is Jesus.
Abrahams Spiritual seed are the Christian peoples, from every tribe, race nation and language. Galatians 3:26-29

Under Christ Jesus their is only One people in fact ! and anyone who starts on about Jews and others just does not get it, because they are not Born again in fact ! Such a one is of this world and is pissing and moaning about worldly nonsense dribble insanity.
To the Saved, no one born again is idolising anyone at all regardless, who you think you are does not compute.
Under the roof of Christ Jesus their is no me coming from a worldly sense, with some idiot making claims he is X Y or Z race tribe religion that for carnal idiots to rant, because they are under delusions and deceptions in fact.

Do a family Tree going back 3 generations and look and see what race you are ? now go back 6 generations and then 12 generations and then 24 and so on, now who are you ? seriously ! You don't cut it and we never did in fact, but one thing for sure, if you are truly born again, you are Saved and that's a big deal because one is not Lost in Christ Jesus in fact. and outside of Christ Jesus is Lost ! lost to this world that Jesus pointed out the facts.
Not to mention he also pointed out the facts to the Devil himself.

 

[Keraz]

Those who respond to the Gospel, are the true Israelites:

The people who hear the voice of Jesus and do what Jesus says: are my people of Israel, My Overcomers, the Victorious ones, literally the Israelites of God. Revelation 3:20-21 Not ethnic Jewish Israel, but the genuine Christian Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

Jesus sent His Disciples-Apostles to the Gentiles; non-Jews, where the House of Israel was; scattered around the world. Not to Judah, as He preached to Judah and was rejected. Their mission was amazingly successful, resulting in the millions of Christians worldwide.

They didn’t disobey Jesus’ Command, by going to who the Jews referred to as Gentiles, because the people who heard the Gospel and who accepted it, plainly were Israelites, the ‘dispersion’, as John 7:35 informs us.

The prophecy of Caiaphas, John 11:50-52, was that; Jesus would die for the nation, in order to gather together the scattered children of God.


Jesus calls us His sheep, because we hear Him. John 10:16 Just as Noah heard God, and just as Abraham heard God. God says that no other people have heard Him but those with the faith of Abraham. He tells us that these are the people He chose... because they heard Him. Deuteronomy 7:6-10

Ephesians 1:4-5 Before the foundation of the world, He chose those who would accept Christ to be His people, to be without blemish in His sight and full of love of Him and their fellow men. It was His good will and pleasure that we Christians are predestined to be adopted as God’s children through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

What else can it mean, but that every person who has understanding and who accepts the Gospel of Jesus, belongs to the true Israel? Grafted into the one Seed, Jesus; but an originally chosen, natural born Christian Israelite. John 15:16, 1 Peter 2:9-10

Since every nation in the world has been completely genetically mixed, the sheep who hear Jesus' voice are from all the tribes, races, nations and languages. Revelation 7:9

It IS the way to know that we ARE the true Israel, because we DO hear Jesus and as faithful Christians, worship and obey Him.

John 10:1-18 tells us in very specific terms, the nature of the sheep and the shepherd. If we truly match that definition, mind and soul, we have the faith of Abraham in our being.


Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who follow after righteousness, all who seek the Lord. Consider the Rock from which you are descended. Consider Abraham, your father and Sarah, your mother, when I called him, he was but one; I Blessed him and he is now many.

This is a direct reference to Christians, the true Israelite sons of God. Romans 9:24-26



The other aspect to this doctrine; is how some people are made for different purposes. Call it predestination, or God the Potter making some ‘vessels’ to be kept and some to be discarded:

Romans 9:21-22 Surely the Potter can do what He likes with the clay? Is He not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured and one for common use?
But if it is indeed God’s purpose to display His retribution and to make His power known, it is that with great patience, He has tolerated vessels that are made for destruction?
Jeremiah 18:1-12

These are Bible truths, therefore it is beholden for us, who have had heard the ‘call of the Lord’ in our hearts, to be very sure to stand strong in our faith at all times and look forward to the great Day when Jesus comes, bringing our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Am I grafted in Keraz ? or am I of the Tree ?

I seen one posted a Tree that was cut down on here and had a grafted bit add to the cut down tree.
I do not believe that the Tree was cut down at all, only that the dead branches were broken off.
The worthy Jewish apostles of Jesus are the Tree ! and the Jews etc who were lead astray by the ones who crept in are that Jesus pointed out.

So there we have it ! Forget about the Goyim and all that rubbish ? just look at them Jews who are and were worthy of Christ Jesus in fact, see the Tree was never lost etc or cut down, it was just that the bastards were vomited out ! why because they were not worthy in fact.

Now when some poor bastard rejects Christ Jesus today, he is a cooked duck ! he is going to Hell in fact. just like them poor bastards who rejected Jesus back in the day ? when they once again turned their back on God ? sure they were lead astray ! but that because they are of this world, stupid ! morons who are lost ! a curse to themselves and all in fact, That's the problem with this world !

So some idiot Goyim claim that they picked up where the worthy Jews dropped off the fact of the earth, one would believe ? but that is BS because the Jews were the first Christians in fact ! They had arrived ! in fact at the point of what God wanted of them, the lights went on ! Then the Goyim came in after and not before.

The whole problem with People regardless is the Tempter ! The temptations of this world that blinds peoples Souls to take part in this God dam Sewer ! it's a cesspit ! but the majority of people are blinded to it ?
Now when Jesus was talking, too the Devil himself ? that's very interesting ! so the Devil try's to tempt Jesus, he wants to give him everything ! That's what most religious people are looking forward too ? rewards ! But what did Jesus point out to the poor Devil ? Oh boy the Devil himself lost one ! and where their is one, that means their could be others ! That Saviour remember them bastard so called Jews in the days of Jesus were running about bagging Salvation telling and demanding everyone not to listen to such at all.
Now who plays that tune today ?
Who bags Jesus ! who bags Salvation ! who turns people away from Salvation ?
Who turns to this world for the answers !

 

[Keraz]

Am I grafted in Keraz ? or am I of the Tree ?

I seen one posted a Tree that was cut down on here and had a grafted bit add to the cut down tree.
I do not believe that the Tree was cut down at all, only that the dead branches were broken off.
The worthy Jewish apostles of Jesus are the Tree ! and the Jews etc who were lead astray by the ones who crept in are that Jesus pointed out.

So there we have it ! Forget about the Goyim and all that rubbish ? just look at them Jews who are and were worthy of Christ Jesus in fact, see the Tree was never lost etc or cut down, it was just that the bastards were vomited out ! why because they were not worthy in fact.

Now when some poor bastard rejects Christ Jesus today, he is a cooked duck ! he is going to Hell in fact. just like them poor bastards who rejected Jesus back in the day ? when they once again turned their back on God ? sure they were lead astray ! but that because they are of this world, stupid ! morons who are lost ! a curse to themselves and all in fact, That's the problem with this world !

So some idiot Goyim claim that they picked up where the worthy Jews dropped off the fact of the earth, one would believe ? but that is BS because the Jews were the first Christians in fact ! They had arrived ! in fact at the point of what God wanted of them, the lights went on ! Then the Goyim came in after and not before.

The whole problem with People regardless is the Tempter ! The temptations of this world that blinds peoples Souls to take part in this God dam Sewer ! it's a cesspit ! but the majority of people are blinded to it ?
Now when Jesus was talking, too the Devil himself ? that's very interesting ! so the Devil try's to tempt Jesus, he wants to give him everything ! That's what most religious people are looking forward too ? rewards ! But what did Jesus point out to the poor Devil ? Oh boy the Devil himself lost one ! and where their is one, that means their could be others ! That Saviour remember them bastard so called Jews in the days of Jesus were running about bagging Salvation telling and demanding everyone not to listen to such at all.
Now who plays that tune today ?
Who bags Jesus ! who bags Salvation ! who turns people away from Salvation ?
Who turns to this world for the answers !

Too confused and downright rude for me to reply.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Two Israel's Are seen Below "TWO"!

1. Israel Of The Flesh (Jews)

2. Israel Of The Promised Seed (Church)

The Church is the "Israel" of God, children of the promised seed

The scripture is "Very Clear" Israel of the flesh, "National Ethnic Israel" they aren't God's children, read it again and again!

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Yahweh made promises to the Middle East country that is populated by Jacob's descendants who live there today. There is no such thing as "Israel of the Flesh" or "Israel of the Promised Seed." That is a fiction.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hosea was prophesying about the House of Israel, who are now referred to by the Jews; as Gentile peoples.

The ONE physical seed of Abraham is Jesus.
Abrahams Spiritual seed are the Christian peoples, from every tribe, race nation and language. Galatians 3:26-29

Well, the Jews are wrong. Ezekiel says that God will Join the House of Israel with the House of Judah as one stick. Nothing about Gentiles.

 

[Keraz]

Well, the Jews are wrong. Ezekiel says that God will Join the House of Israel with the House of Judah as one stick. Nothing about Gentiles.

So then: who are the House of Israel today?
Who are the ones that Jesus came to save? Matthew 15:24
If the 2 Houses had already joined in Jesus' time, did He fail His mission and we Christians are only also rans?

Do you take any notice of the over 20 plainly stated Prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of Judah?

The idea of a general Jewish redemption is false and cannot happen. It is part of the 'rapture' doctrine and both are un biblical error.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Too confused and downright rude for me to reply.

Because you do not know or understand and you think I am being rude.

I am pointing out about this sewer bro !
But people in the sewer do not understand they are in a sewer. so they idolise the sewer ?
If one is not Saved, born again, such is of the Sewer in fact and the so called Jews are or the sewer in fact because they are not born again in fact.
Only the worthy Jews got saved 2000 years ago as they were the first Christians in fact.

 

[CadyandZoe]

So then: who are the House of Israel today?
Who are the ones that Jesus came to save? Matthew 15:24
If the 2 Houses had already joined in Jesus' time, did He fail His mission and we Christians are only also rans?

Do you take any notice of the over 20 plainly stated Prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of Judah?

The idea of a general Jewish redemption is false and cannot happen. It is part of the 'rapture' doctrine and both are un biblical error.

There is no house of Israel today. The term "house" means dynasty. The Israel dynasty has ended. In Jesus' day, the remnant of the house of Israel were called the Samaritans. Remember the conversation Jesus had with the woman at the well? John 4:20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”

At the schism of Shechem, the tribes split up into two kingdoms, the Northern kingdom called "Israel" and the southern kingdom called "Judah." The Samaritan woman's ancestors were from the northern ten tribes and worshipped at the place where Jesus met her. In other words, the peoples of the ten tribes were present during the ministry of Jesus.

Jesus came to save anyone who repents and seeks Jesus to save them. This was the message of Matthew 15:24.

As for the prophets who speak about the people and her fate, consider Ezekiel's prophecy, Ezekiel 5, wherein he describes the time when the Lord commanded him to cut off all of his hair. He was to divide the hair into three parts. One part would die by famine, another part will die outside the city in battle, and another part will be taken captive and die in a foreign land. Ezekiel is to place a small amount into his garment, which represents a small remnant of the people. But, Isaiah says, the tenth portion that remains will once again be subject to burning. Isaiah 6:13

Malachi and Joel describe this event, which tests the faith of those living in the land of Israel at that time. The call will go out into all the land and those who heed the call and come to Jerusalem to pray for the survival of the people will be saved. The rest of the people will die in a great fire. At that moment, the remnant will consist of believers, those who fear the Lord. At that time, the Lord will pour out his spirit on all of them and they will prophesy.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Because you do not know or understand and you think I am being rude.

I am pointing out about this sewer bro !
But people in the sewer do not understand they are in a sewer. so they idolise the sewer ?
If one is not Saved, born again, such is of the Sewer in fact and the so called Jews are or the sewer in fact because they are not born again in fact.
Only the worthy Jews got saved 2000 years ago as they were the first Christians in fact.

They aren't born again - Yet. Learn to think about people, not as lost, but as potential believers. None of us knows when God might open the eyes and soften the heart of someone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Those who respond to the Gospel, are the true Israelites:

The people who hear the voice of Jesus and do what Jesus says: are my people of Israel, My Overcomers, the Victorious ones, literally the Israelites of God. Revelation 3:20-21 Not ethnic Jewish Israel, but the genuine Christian Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

Jesus sent His Disciples-Apostles to the Gentiles; non-Jews, where the House of Israel was; scattered around the world. Not to Judah, as He preached to Judah and was rejected. Their mission was amazingly successful, resulting in the millions of Christians worldwide.

They didn’t disobey Jesus’ Command, by going to who the Jews referred to as Gentiles, because the people who heard the Gospel and who accepted it, plainly were Israelites, the ‘dispersion’, as John 7:35 informs us.

The prophecy of Caiaphas, John 11:50-52, was that; Jesus would die for the nation, in order to gather together the scattered children of God.


Jesus calls us His sheep, because we hear Him. John 10:16 Just as Noah heard God, and just as Abraham heard God. God says that no other people have heard Him but those with the faith of Abraham. He tells us that these are the people He chose... because they heard Him. Deuteronomy 7:6-10

Ephesians 1:4-5 Before the foundation of the world, He chose those who would accept Christ to be His people, to be without blemish in His sight and full of love of Him and their fellow men. It was His good will and pleasure that we Christians are predestined to be adopted as God’s children through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

What else can it mean, but that every person who has understanding and who accepts the Gospel of Jesus, belongs to the true Israel? Grafted into the one Seed, Jesus; but an originally chosen, natural born Christian Israelite. John 15:16, 1 Peter 2:9-10

Since every nation in the world has been completely genetically mixed, the sheep who hear Jesus' voice are from all the tribes, races, nations and languages. Revelation 7:9

It IS the way to know that we ARE the true Israel, because we DO hear Jesus and as faithful Christians, worship and obey Him.

John 10:1-18 tells us in very specific terms, the nature of the sheep and the shepherd. If we truly match that definition, mind and soul, we have the faith of Abraham in our being.


Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who follow after righteousness, all who seek the Lord. Consider the Rock from which you are descended. Consider Abraham, your father and Sarah, your mother, when I called him, he was but one; I Blessed him and he is now many.

This is a direct reference to Christians, the true Israelite sons of God. Romans 9:24-26



The other aspect to this doctrine; is how some people are made for different purposes. Call it predestination, or God the Potter making some ‘vessels’ to be kept and some to be discarded:

Romans 9:21-22 Surely the Potter can do what He likes with the clay? Is He not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured and one for common use?
But if it is indeed God’s purpose to display His retribution and to make His power known, it is that with great patience, He has tolerated vessels that are made for destruction?
Jeremiah 18:1-12

These are Bible truths, therefore it is beholden for us, who have had heard the ‘call of the Lord’ in our hearts, to be very sure to stand strong in our faith at all times and look forward to the great Day when Jesus comes, bringing our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

I like your exhortation at the end. Bear in mind, though, that none of us knows the conversion date of any particular individual. Don't look at people as "lost", look at them as potential "found."

 

[Davy]

Then stop separating the church from the body of Christ.

You just don't understand many things.

By what I have explained about God's Israel and Christ's Church is BIBLICAL PROOF that they are both one and the same!

Because you cannot understand that, shows you don't your Bible, nor Christian history.

 

[Davy]

More, and I'll try to make this as short as I can, for the ADD readers who lack that ability.

The two 'houses' in God's Word, the "house of Israel" (ten lost tribes), and the "house of Judah" (Jews), were scattered among the Gentiles because of rebelling against God, as He promised them He would do. This is why Apostle James addressed all 12 tribes scattered abroad.

The ten tribes were scattered among the Gentiles first. And they lost their heritage as being part of Israel. Many of these, scattered among Asia Minor and Europe, along with believing Gentiles in those lands became the early Christian Church in those regions. Only small portions of Jews in those regions converted to Christ, for the majority of Jews still dwelt in the holy lands and weren't scattered until after their 70 years captivity to Babylon.

What happened then, was that probably the MAJORITY of the scattered ten lost tribes became Christians after their migrations from Assyria into Asia Minor and Europe.

And then after the Jew's 70 years captivity to Babylon, the majority of Jews in Babylon were also scattered through the nations like the ten tribes were.

Thus there are members in Christ's Church out of ALL 12 tribes of Israel.

How then can anyone try to isolate 'ISRAEL' from Christ's Church?

 

[Davy]

Scripture? I base my view on Genesis 32:28 On what do you base your view?

Galatians 3 and Romans 4 with what Apostle Paul taught about The Gospel Promise by Faith first given through... Abraham. That's my Biblical proo

Of course. Paul argues that Gentiles have access to the eternal kingdom of God through Abraham. He never argues that Gentiles have access to the kingdom of God through Israel.

Out of one side of your mouth, you admit Paul taught that The Gospel is what Abraham was also taught and believed. But out of the other side of your mouth you deny The Gospel having a connection with the name 'Israel'. You obviously REJECT what Paul said to believing Gentiles in Ephesians 2:11-13, even declaring their being part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

Thus Apostle Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" title MEANS CHRIST'S CHURCH.

I disagree. He says that the Ephesians were cut off from the commonwealth of Israel, BUT they have now become fellow-citizens with the saints, through the blood of Christ -- NOT by becoming members of the commonwealth of Israel.

And THERE is your DIRECT DENIAL of what Paul said there in Ephesians 2 TO BELIEVING GENTILES having become "nigh" to the "commonwealth of Israel"...

Eph 2:12-13
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

Paul is pointing to how they through Faith on Jesus Christ had become "nigh" (unto) those "covenants of promise". So you don't remember what Paul said about The Gospel being preached to Abraham after all...

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."
KJV

Gal 3:27-29
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

So even believing Gentiles are "heirs according to the promise"?? YEAH! So LIE to me again you Judaizer, and try to tell me believing Gentiles are not part of Paul's "commonwealth of Israel"!

Do you even KNOW what Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" is even about? I'll bet your vain thinking believes that title is still about UNBELIEVING JEWS of the nation state called Israel in the holy land!!! Such vanity!

I also noticed you also REJECT the BIBLICAL TRUTH about the two separate 'houses' in God's Word, one house being the "house of Israel" that represents the ten tribes of Israel, and the "house of Judah" which represents the Jews (only 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). Those titles are WRITTEN OFTEN IN OLD TESTAMENT HISTORY OF THE 1 Kings and 2 Kings, and 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles. So anyone rejecting that shows they are a Judaizer, a DECEIVER.

Hosea was not talking about Gentiles.

And that's why your vain Judaizer mind cannot understand why Apostle Paul pointed to Hosea prophecy when speaking to Gentile believers in ROMANS 9. It's because the believing Gentiles INHERIT WITH SAVED ISRAELITES in Christ Jesus! Believers from BOTH... make up Christ's Church today!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Galatians 3 and Romans 4 with what Apostle Paul taught about The Gospel Promise by Faith first given through... Abraham.

Is Paul talking about Israel in those passages? I don't think he is. He seems to be talking about the Abrahamic Covenant instead.

Out of one side of your mouth, you admit Paul taught that The Gospel is what Abraham was also taught and believed. But out of the other side of your mouth you deny The Gospel having a connection with the name 'Israel'.

More importantly, Paul argues, in Galatians 3, that the Gentiles are saved according to the Abrahamic covenant. Any promises God made to Israel are a different matter altogether.

You obviously REJECT what Paul said to believing Gentiles in Ephesians 2:11-13, even declaring their being part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

I take issue with that interpretation. In my view, Paul is not saying that Jews and Gentiles are united under the commonwealth of Israel, they are untied in Christ Jesus, through belief in his blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Apparently you and I understand Paul differently. You seem to believe that Ephesians 2:12 indicates items that were supplied to the Ephesians. In my view, however, verse 12 enumerates ways that demarcate Gentile alienation; they specify the significant situations that help define being "far off." Paul is answering the essential questions; What are the significant ramifications of being physically located in a land and country other than the land of Israel? What do the Ephesians miss by not living among the Hebrew people? How does Christ unite disparate peoples from all over the world?

Verse 13-18 answers that question. Paul's answer minimizes the significance of being a member of a commonwealth. One no longer needs to live among the Hebrew people. Instead, "those who were once far off were brought near by the blood of Christ. Every person in Christ are united into one new man, i.e. one new anthropos. Being "in Christ" is an entirely new existence, an entirely new class of human, with all unique and special qualities. One's commonwealth association is part of the Old man, the old anthropos.

Paul is pointing to how they through Faith on Jesus Christ had become "nigh" (unto) those "covenants of promise".

Yes, that's right. I agree with you. But remember, Abraham is the father of our faith, not Jacob, not Israel.

So you don't remember what Paul said about The Gospel being preached to Abraham after all...

Sure I do. I agree with him and with you. Justification comes to the Gentiles the same way it came to Abraham, who believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Nonetheless, God's promises to Israel are a different matter altogether.

So even believing Gentiles are "heirs according to the promise"?? YEAH!

Of course, we are heirs according to a promise that God made to Abraham, not according to a promise made to Israel. Two different matters.

I also noticed you also REJECT the BIBLICAL TRUTH about the two separate 'houses' in God's Word, one house being the "house of Israel" that represents the ten tribes of Israel, and the "house of Judah" which represents the Jews (only 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi). Those titles are WRITTEN OFTEN IN OLD TESTAMENT HISTORY OF THE 1 Kings and 2 Kings, and 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles. So anyone rejecting that shows they are a Judaizer, a DECEIVER.

Histrionics aside, I didn't reject the Biblical facts concerning two separate houses. But time and circumstance have rendered that circumstance irrelevant. The House of Israel no longer exists. It ended with the Assyrian captivity.

And that's why your vain Judaizer mind cannot understand why Apostle Paul pointed to Hosea prophecy when speaking to Gentile believers in ROMANS 9. It's because the believing Gentiles INHERIT WITH SAVED ISRAELITES in Christ Jesus! Believers from BOTH... make up Christ's Church today!

Is it time for your meds? Better check.

 

[Keraz]

The House of Israel no longer exists. It ended with the Assyrian captivity.

Your opinion opposes what God says;
Amos 9:8b-9 Yet I shall not destroy all of Jacobs posterity....I shall give the Command to scatter Israel among the nations....and no one will be lost. Jesus and the Apostles, and Josephus, all knew of the existence of the lost House of Israel. They are now the Christian peoples.

Who is the real House of Israel?
A study of the first two chapters of Hosea shows us that Israel was to be cast off and divorced from God. They were to be scattered (“Jezreel”); they were to have no mercy (“Lo-ruhamah”); and they were to be no longer God’s people (“Lo-ammi”). But at the same time, God promised that they would be regathered under one Head (Jesus Christ) and come out of captivity. A decreed period; Ezekiel 4:4-6.

In fact, God told them He would “betroth thee unto Me in righteousness” (Hosea 2:19). The prophecy culminates with a Hebrew play on words. The name “Jezreel” means “God scatters,” but it also means “God sows.” (One must scatter the seed in order to sow it in the field.) Thus, at first the name prophesies that Israel was to be scattered; but ultimately it shows God’s Purpose—to sow Israel in the earth in order to multiply her as the sand of the sea, so as God remains faithful to His promise to Abraham.

Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art My God.

In other words, even though God did indeed cast off His people Israel, scattering them in the nations by the hand of the Assyrians, God’s ultimate Purpose was to sow them in the earth, so that they would multiply and fulfil the promise to Abraham. Furthermore, Hosea prophesied that; in the very place (of their captivity) where it is said that they are not God’s people (Israel), they would be Christians known as; “the Sons of the living God." Hosea 1:10, Romans 9:24-26

The problem is that most Christians try to make the Jews fulfil these prophesies, when the House of Judah, is fact, fulfilling an entirely different set of prophecies. God in His great mercy has allowed them nearly 2000 years to change their hearts to Him and to accept Jesus as Messiah.

If people realized that the Jews are to fulfil the prophecies of the House of Judah, instead of those dealing with the lost House of Israel, they would not have made this mistake. The Jews were certainly “cast off” in 586 BC and again in 70-135 A.D., even as Israel was cast off during 745-712 B.C.—but the difference is that the prophets uniformly prophesy good things for lost Israel even during the time of their captivity; while severe judgments were pronounced upon Jerusalem and the Jewish people.

Note that Ezekiel 21:14 tells of 3 Judgements. The next one, to come; will be by the Hand of the Lord Himself. Ezekiel 21:1-7


In Jeremiah 18:1-10, God says that the House of Israel was marred in the Potter’s hand, so God was going to beat down the wet clay and remake it into a vessel fit for His use. Then beginning in verse 11, God begins to prophesy about Jerusalem and Judah. First comes an indictment for their sins, and then in Jeremiah 19:1-15 we see that Jeremiah was to take an old earthen vessel (as opposed to wet clay that was pliable), he was to go to the city dump and smash the earthen vessel there, saying: Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaks a potter’s vessel, that cannot be made whole again, and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury. Thus will I do unto this place, says the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet.

God’s choice of an allegory to suit each House is amazing!

An old clay vessel, once broken, cannot be remade into another vessel. Only wet, pliable clay can be used to remake a vessel. The House of Israel is like the pliable clay; but the House of Judah will be smashed and never again be built into a vessel of honour.

At the end of the first Temple era, God departed from it and Ezekiel saw the glory depart. Ezekiel 10:4-19 It has never returned to the Temple. Even when Zerubbabel rebuilt the Temple in 515 B.C., the glory did not return to it when they dedicated it to God. The work was good and was allowed by God, but the site itself was cursed.


This is consistent with the New Testament prophecies regarding the cursed fig tree, Matt. 21:21 the parable of the vineyard, Matt. 21:43-44 and the parable of the citizens who hated Him and would not allow Him to reign over them. Luke 19:27


The point is, these peoples must still be around to fulfill these distinct prophecies for Israel and for the cursed fig tree. The lost House of Israel must exist to be remade into another vessel and Judah must exist to be virtually wiped out. Isaiah 22:14

The problem comes when people think that the smashed vessel is going to be rebuilt into a vessel fit for God’s use, and when those same people wrongly think that the original House of Israel is lost forever and the Jews are the only Israel.


Plainly, the Christian peoples are the House of Israel, the Overcomers for God, as Jacob was. Jesus came to save the House of Israel, Matthew 15:24, who must be the Christian peoples; or Jesus failed in His mission.

The Jews will never change and Bible prophecy says they will be Judged and punished and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27, Isaiah 6:11-13, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +

 

[Davy]

Is Paul talking about Israel in those passages? I don't think he is. He seems to be talking about the Abrahamic Covenant instead.


More importantly, Paul argues, in Galatians 3, that the Gentiles are saved according to the Abrahamic covenant. Any promises God made to Israel are a different matter altogether.
I take issue with that interpretation. In my view, Paul is not saying that Jews and Gentiles are united under the commonwealth of Israel, they are untied in Christ Jesus, through belief in his blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Apparently you and I understand Paul differently. You seem to believe that Ephesians 2:12 indicates items that were supplied to the Ephesians. In my view, however, verse 12 enumerates ways that demarcate Gentile alienation; they specify the significant situations that help define being "far off." Paul is answering the essential questions; What are the significant ramifications of being physically located in a land and country other than the land of Israel? What do the Ephesians miss by not living among the Hebrew people? How does Christ unite disparate peoples from all over the world?

Verse 13-18 answers that question. Paul's answer minimizes the significance of being a member of a commonwealth. One no longer needs to live among the Hebrew people. Instead, "those who were once far off were brought near by the blood of Christ. Every person in Christ are united into one new man, i.e. one new anthropos. Being "in Christ" is an entirely new existence, an entirely new class of human, with all unique and special qualities. One's commonwealth association is part of the Old man, the old anthropos.


Yes, that's right. I agree with you. But remember, Abraham is the father of our faith, not Jacob, not Israel.


Sure I do. I agree with him and with you. Justification comes to the Gentiles the same way it came to Abraham, who believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

Nonetheless, God's promises to Israel are a different matter altogether.

Of course, we are heirs according to a promise that God made to Abraham, not according to a promise made to Israel. Two different matters.



Histrionics aside, I didn't reject the Biblical facts concerning two separate houses. But time and circumstance have rendered that circumstance irrelevant. The House of Israel no longer exists. It ended with the Assyrian captivity.


Is it time for your meds? Better check.

It's obvious that you are here to push JEWISH traditions, even among Jewish believers on Christ Jesus. That is why you don't understand about The Gospel relation to the name 'ISRAEL'.

In your mind, Romans 9 stands as a mockery against Jews.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

They aren't born again - Yet. Learn to think about people, not as lost, but as potential believers. None of us knows when God might open the eyes and soften the heart of someone.

They Jesus disciples were born again in fact when Jesus went to Heaven. there eyes were opened ! They were worthy of Moses as well.

All people regardless are potential believers.

 

[Davy]

Is Paul talking about Israel in those passages? I don't think he is. He seems to be talking about the Abrahamic Covenant instead.

Yes Paul is pointing to Israel in those passages, but NOT unbelieving Jews, but BELIEVING Israelites and the covenants of promise that God gave them which BEGAN WITH ABRAHAM. How hard can it be to understand that the Abrahamic covenant is about Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and is for EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES, regardless of birth! Thus Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" title was NOT about unbelieving Israel, but about Christ's Church, His many-membered body. And that is why Paul said the Galatians 3:27-29 Scripture about Gentile believers being included as "heirs according to the promise". Heirs of what? Heirs of God's covenants to Abraham, which are the same promises handed down to Isaac, and then to Jacob, and then to Israel.

More importantly, Paul argues, in Galatians 3, that the Gentiles are saved according to the Abrahamic covenant. Any promises God made to Israel are a different matter altogether.

You don't know what you're talking about, because the Abrahamic covenant IS... about the covenants and promises to Israel. What God promised to Abraham was transferred to his son Issac, and then to Jacob and thus Israel. You're falsely wanting to keep Christ's Church and Israel separate like the Darbyite dispensationalists which held doctrines instituted by the false Jews.

I take issue with that interpretation. In my view, Paul is not saying that Jews and Gentiles are united under the commonwealth of Israel, they are untied in Christ Jesus, through belief in his blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Becoming "nigh" to the covenants and promises to Israel IS... about the believing Gentile becoming under Paul's "commonwealth of Israel", because Paul gives a solid contrast of how before they believed they "were strangers from the covenants of promise." THUS YOU ARE IN FLAT DENIAL OF THE SCRIPTURE.

Apparently you and I understand Paul differently. You seem to believe that Ephesians 2:12 indicates items that were supplied to the Ephesians. In my view, however, verse 12 enumerates ways that demarcate Gentile alienation; they specify the significant situations that help define being "far off." Paul is answering the essential questions; What are the significant ramifications of being physically located in a land and country other than the land of Israel? What do the Ephesians miss by not living among the Hebrew people? How does Christ unite disparate peoples from all over the world?

We do, because YOU understand Paul like a Judaizer, a Jewish convert to Christ that can't quite give up their Jewish traditions of men. Paul had a hard time with those brethren in Galatians, because they spied out Gentile believers to see if they had been flesh circumcised, so like those Jews in Acts 15, they wanted to make flesh circumcision a requirement for Christ's Salvation.