Christians are sinners, but not of the devil

[Johann]

Me and @Bible Highlighter are not in one accord. He believes that it is impossible for a born again believer to stop sinning.



I’m just showing you what the holy scriptures say.



I fail to see how this matters.

The holy scriptures transcends all earthly races and cultures.



I’m not trolling you.

And I don’t know what “Perushim” and “Tzedukim” means.



I have never reported anyone to an Administrator on these discussion boards, never. I don’t believe in silencing opposition.



If you remain settled on the Holy Bible without allowing any traditions of men, any cultural beliefs, or any man made biases to leaven you, you CAN do what the scripture says:

“Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13)

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

But it seems that too many men have some kind of leaven in them because they fail to stay focused ONLY on what the scriptures teach.



I say ALL earthly traditions should be ignored and that we should only be focused on things from above, not things on the earth.

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” (Colossians 3:1-2)



No offense, but get to know Jesus Christ and his Apostles through the word of God and then we will be united spiritually.

“Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.” (2 Thessalonians 3:6)

Nice one brother, well laid out, like a merciful father tutoring his son.
Love you man.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nice one brother, well laid out, like a merciful father tutoring his son.
Love you man.

Uh, we don’t know each other or talk privately. We are not on the same page exactly. He does not believe in the Trinity. I do. He also likes to post worldly pictures (that are from programs that are filled with sin). I don’t believe in doing that. We may agree that we must live holy and be fruitful as a part of salvation (Hebrews 12:14), but I am not even sure he believes if we are initially saved by God’s grace without works. I believe the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation. Not sure where he stands on that one. So your assessment is like way off base, my friend. We are not like a father and son in any way. I was taught by comparing Scripture with Scripture and asking God for the understanding.

 

[Johann]

Uh, we don’t know each other or talk privately. We are not on the same page exactly. He does not believe in the Trinity. I do. He also likes to post worldly pictures (that are from programs that are filled with sin). I don’t believe in doing that. We may agree that we must live holy and be fruitful as a part of salvation (Hebrews 12:14), but I am not even sure he believes if we are initially saved by God’s grace without works. I believe the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation. Not sure where he stands on that one.

Just shows you how Christians can't agree yet need each other in the soma of Christ.
By the way, we are on the wrong thread.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Me and @Bible Highlighter are not in one accord. He believes that it is impossible for a born again believer to stop sinning.

Uh, no I don’t. I believe it is possible for a born again believer to stop sinning.

So then why am I the only one that has been accused of “sinless perfectionism” by @mailmandan and his friends around here? Including @L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d

And I’m sorry that my scarce use of memes bothers you. It’s for effect. I don’t watch any of that stuff. Jesus often used earthly illustrations to teach a spiritual truth. Instead of explaining my emotions with many words, a meme conveys them with none.

And how do you know the origins of these memes?

Chill out man.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

but I am not even sure he believes if we are initially saved by God’s grace without works.

Just goes to show how much you pay attention to what I write.

That’s an absurd statement.

I have never said that works are needed for initial salvation, NEVER!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

We are not on the same page exactly. He does not believe in the Trinity. I do.

Where did the Bible tell you to believe in a “trinity”?

This is the petty stuff that divides.

THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TELLING YOU TO BELIEVE IN A TRINITY.

NONE!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So then why am I the only one that has been accused of “sinless perfectionism” by @mailmandan and his friends around here?

I believe in Sinless Perfection but I see it as putting away sins that do not lead unto spiritual death. An example would be in Matthew 5:22 in the Amplified Translation. The first two sins are sins that lead to death in earthly courts, and the last one is death in hellfire. Granted, Christians should obey the Lord in all things and be perfect.

And I’m sorry that my scarce use of memes bothers you. It’s for effect. I don’t watch any of that stuff.

But posting these things can lead others to want to watch these things.

Jesus often used earthly illustrations to teach a spiritual truth.

Jesus did not make a parallel from sinful media or sinful stories created by men.

Instead of explaining my emotions with many words, a meme conveys them with none.

I am not against memes. They just should not promote worldly sinful shows or movies.

And how do you know the origins of these memes?

I used to be a big fan of Star Trek, and popular Hollywood films.
In 2016, I gave them up to follow Jesus.
I now watch Christian films.

Chill out man.

This is something only the Lord can reveal to a believer in their proper timing. I was not always this way. To know the darkness behind popular media and it’s agenda will truly change you to run closer into the arms of Jesus and His good ways.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just goes to show how much you pay attention to what I write.

That’s an absurd statement.

I have never said that works are needed for initial salvation, NEVER!

I said I was not sure where you stand on that issue. I was not stating a fact. But I am happy to hear that you agree with me on this point.
Blessings be unto you in the Lord for this truth being revealed to you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Blessings be unto you in the Lord for this truth being revealed to you.

This truth is self evident and plainly taught in scripture. No special revelation was needed to understand that truth. No amount of works can take away sins from a lost person.

The same cannot be said about the Trinity. You don’t learn the trinity teaching techniques from the Bible. “God-man” is an invention of men. It’s a man made doctrine. One of the many causes of unnecessary divisions in the faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where did the Bible tell you to believe in a “trinity”?

This is the petty stuff that divides.

THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TELLING YOU TO BELIEVE IN A TRINITY.

NONE!

The King James Bible uses the word Godhead three times (Meaning Trinity).
For even nature teaches us about the Godhead (Trinity). Atoms are three and yet they are one.
The same with water. These are the invisible things in nature that show forth the Trinity or Godhead.

1 John 5:7 (KJB) says “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
​

The Word is called God in the beginning of the gospel of John.
The Holy Spirit is also called God in Scripture (and is mentioned as being distinct from the Father).
The beginning of Genesis says, let us make man in our image.
Yet, the Bible says the Lord our God is one.
It’s pretty obvious.

Anyways, to see a more comprehensive defense of the Trinity, see my posts starting here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This truth is self evident and plainly taught in scripture. No special revelation was needed to understand that truth. No amount of works can take away sins from a lost person.

We all need a special revelation from GOD or His Spirit to understand this truth. Many are against this truth. For example: Catholics and the Church of Christ both believe water baptism (a work) is what saves us initially (Although they will not all say they are saved by works initially).

The same cannot be said about the Trinity. You don’t learn the trinity teaching techniques from the Bible. “God-man” is an invention of men. It’s a man made doctrine. One of the many causes of unnecessary divisions in the faith.

Wow. So you don’t believe Jesus is GOD?
That’s like far out in left field. In the link to my other post, I provided 160 reasons in Scripture of how Jesus is GOD.
It’s really way too obvious. Only a person wanting to fight against such a truth will do so.
Not sure why folks would want to deny how God reveals Himself in Scripture.
It really is a mystery to me.

 

[Johann]

Where did the Bible tell you to believe in a “trinity”?

This is the petty stuff that divides.

THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TELLING YOU TO BELIEVE IN A TRINITY.

NONE!

Calm down @Michiah-Imla, we might disappear...

Jos 6:10 But Joshua commanded the people, “You shall not shout or make your voice heard, neither shall any word go out of your mouth, until the day I tell you to shout. Then you shall shout.”


Ecc 3:3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7 a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.


Amo 5:12 For I know how many are your transgressions and how great are your sins— you who afflict the righteous, who take a bribe, and turn aside the needy in the gate.
Amo 5:13 Therefore he who is prudent will keep silent in such a time, for it is an evil time.

Zep 1:7 Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near; the LORD has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests.

God bless, there are many isms and schisms in the body of Christ, doesn't mean we are not saved, some have arrived, some are still jogging this race.

We may have our different views, as long as the cross, and resurrection of Christ don't disappear.


1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.
1Co 15:11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Bible Highlighter

The trinity is an unbiblical religious doctrine with zealous followers.

You can explain and make long posts all you want about the trinity but it’s not found in the holy scriptures the way you men teach it. It’s a doctrine created outside the Bible using some ambiguous scriptures to make it stand.

You have no scriptural authority to call Jesus God. None of the Apostles told us that Jesus is God point blank. If he were God this would have plainly been told to us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Bible Highlighter

The trinity is an unbiblical religious doctrine with zealous followers.

You can explain and make long posts all you want about the trinity but it’s not found in the holy scriptures the way you men teach it. It’s a doctrine created outside the Bible using some ambiguous scriptures to make it stand.

You have no scriptural authority to call Jesus God. None of the Apostles told us that Jesus is God point blank. If he were God this would have plainly been told to us.

Well, your too late. The cat is already out of the bag. I already demonstrated the truth of the Trinity and how Jesus is God by my writings involving the Bible. The choice is up to you to listen to the Word of God on the matter or not. It doesn’t sound like you accept those verses that teach these truths because you simply don’t like them. All I can do is point you to the truth. I cannot force you to see it. Only God can help you to see what the Bible says about Him (if you are open). But if you are close minded already to the Trinity, and how Jesus is GOD, then no amount of verses proving that fact will help you.

It’s the same with “Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists.” They just don’t really want to deal with the verses that refutes their false belief. Why? Because they don’t want to see them. They have chosen their own truth that they want to see instead.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I demonstrated the truth of the Trinity and how Jesus is God by my writings

Yes, YOU demonstrate… YOUR writings.

Not the Bible nor any of its holy inspired writers. Case closed.

The choice is up to you to listen to the Word of God on the matter or not

The Word of God does not teach me the trinity. YOU and men like you try to.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, YOU demonstrate… YOUR writings.

Not the Bible nor any of its holy inspired writers. Case closed.

The Word of God does not teach me the trinity. YOU and men like you try do.

This is a pointless exercise or discussion. I provided plenty of verses proving my case already. There really is nothing to debate about the verses I presented because they are clear in what they say. For example: The Godhead (Trinity) is shown to us in the invisible things in the creation.

Romans 1:20
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

What invisible things in the creation are shown? Well, atoms are three and yet one. Water molecules are also three and yet one.

The Word is called GOD in the beginning of the gospel of John (John 1:1).
The Word was made flesh (John 1:14). This is Jesus.
1 Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh.
Acts 20:28 says God purchased us with His own blood.
There is no Savior besides God, and yet Jesus is a Savior and sits at the right hand of God the Father.
I could keep going on and on and on, and on. But I am sure you can just keep denying these truths in Scripture.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There really is nothing to debate about the verses I presented because they are clear in what they say

They are not “clear”.

The Word is called GOD in the beginning of the gospel of John (John 1:1).
The Word was made flesh (John 1:14).

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” (John 1:1-2)

So the “Word” was God and was with God. That’s already a mystery from the get go.

Like Paul said:

“…the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Colossians 2:2-3)

And Paul leaves it a mystery without saying “Jesus is God”.

1 Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh.

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” (1 Timothy 3:16)

Again it’s a mystery how God was manifest in the flesh. Jesus is not mentioned at all in this text.

Acts 20:28 says God purchased us with His own blood.

Aren’t all things the property of God?

“…all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee.” (1 Chronicles 29:14)

I could keep going on and on and on

No scripture tells us to believe in the trinity. Much less break fellowship over this non-existent doctrine.

And “Godhead” doesn’t mean “trinity”.

“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” (Deuteronomy 29:29)

It’s better that we find unity in the things revealed to us in the scripture. Not the things that we imagine are in the scripture.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

if you are close minded already to the Trinity, and how Jesus is GOD, then no amount of verses proving that fact will help you.

I’m close minded to unscriptural nonsense.

It’s the same with “Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationists.” They just don’t really want to deal with the verses that refutes their false belief.

It’s not the same.

There are plainly written warnings against sinning in scripture. And you can’t get any plainer than 1 John 3:9

 

[Ancient]

1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

1 John 3:4 Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

Hello can you please define Biblically what lawlessness is. As in what it meant in the time it was said?

Blessings and Shalom

 

[Ancient]

That is true for unbelievers. Christians that believe Jesus is the Christ and are saved do not like sinning anymore, even though we do it.

For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. (Romans 7:22-23)

I do not enjoy sinning anymore as I did before I began to believe Jesus is the Christ. When we sin, we are not like the world nor the devil, because we don't enjoy it anymore. It is now something we must endure.

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. (Hebrews 11.24-26)

It is not a disgrace for me to be sinning anymore like it used to be when I used to love doing it without shame. I am ashamed now but not disgraced nor unsaved. I am now ashamed of sinning because I don't like doing it and I was the same about that before. I have always been ashamed of doing something I did not want to do. But sinning was what I wanted to do all the time. Now I still do it and am ashamed of it but not disgraced by loving it.

Someone dancing around on a table in a bar in a drunken stupor is a disgrace. Someone off in the corner drinking too much is a shame.

I think it would be helpful to define what sin is. According to the Bible. What is it to sin?

Blessings and Shalom