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Gentlemen,
I love you. No, I love you more. But not as much as I do. Much more than you do. ...
One might offer some advice as to the social discomfort of this ~love fest~. So in the spirit of any teenager to their embraced parents: Get A Room!
:unsure:
Oh but Insight, Jesus is clearly said to be “THE MIGHTY GOD” and “THE EVERLASTING FATHER”!
Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
How can you possibly say he is not God !!!
Vengle, on 16 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:
... Jesus is the first creation of God and the last creation of God ...
Vengle, on 16 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:
... it honestly amazes me that you do not know that Jesus is not God but God's Son; a creation just as we ...
... just because two agree upon something. And such is the case in the above "love-fest", where both agree that Jesus is not GOD, but simply a created being.
Ah yes the work of reconciliation of sons was prophesied of old.
But who placed these names in the son?
The "shall be's" must be cause for alarm!
Right?
To All,
Please allow the doctrine which is being espoused by these two individuals as follows:
.
And so these two present their beliefs in contradiction to Scripture, but in mutual assurance with each other.
So the question should be to any who might fall prey to this seemingly intellectual and concerted agreement, -- Does Scripture really say that Jesus is a "created" being? And should we be happy with such a ~well accepted~ doctrine?
Of course anyone with an ounce of foundation would immediately reject this an a false doctrine, -- but an unfounded Christian might fall prey to such distortions of TRUTH. Thus my repeated comment and admonition, and subsequent homepage reference:
http://www.bluelette...wart.cfm?id=339
Is Jesus Lesser in Nature than God the Father? (Arianism)
BibleScribe
This ignore function is great.
I can see BS has posted something??? No doubt more of the same profanities, but I have no interest in reading it!
I believe God does this to us when we are in a similair state of mind to BibleScribe. Jer 11:14
Insight
Vengle, on 16 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:
... Jesus is the first creation of God and the last creation of God ...
Vengle, on 16 November 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:
... it honestly amazes me that you do not know that Jesus is not God but God's Son; a creation just as we ...
... just because two agree upon something. And such is the case in the above "love-fest", where both agree that Jesus is not GOD, but simply a created being.
... and for a refresher:
To All,
Please allow the doctrine which is being espoused by these two individuals as follows:
.
And so these two present their beliefs in contradiction to Scripture, but in mutual assurance with each other.
So the question should be to any who might fall prey to this seemingly intellectual and concerted agreement, -- Does Scripture really say that Jesus is a "created" being? And should we be happy with such a ~well accepted~ doctrine?
Of course anyone with an ounce of foundation would immediately reject this an a false doctrine, -- but an unfounded Christian might fall prey to such distortions of TRUTH. Thus my repeated comment and admonition, and subsequent homepage reference:
http://www.bluelette...wart.cfm?id=339
Is Jesus Lesser in Nature than God the Father? (Arianism)
BibleScribe
The irony with these verses Vengle is their primary fulfilment is applied to a human being first of all.
It was applied to Hezekiah himself in the initial fulfilment of the "child" in Isa 7:14, and the "little child" in Isa 11.
Of course its secondary fulfilment is in Jesus. Of course primarly this order is reversed when when consider Hezekiahs life could not exist without foretelling of Jesus Christ
So few understand the context but are quick to run away with doctrines of gods.
Vengle,
Many draw from these verses the coming Messiah, which is so clearly obvious, so much so many here fail to acknowledge the original history and their fulfilment is not always understood.
It is worth looking into their primary lessons as partialy fulfilled in the days of Hezekiah and Sennacherib. (Strongly
Recommend Trinitarian believers to do this!)
Like BS many do not desire to see a "bigger picture" or enter the Word to discuss its worth.
Context will help all see the beauty of these passages.
Insight
Consider the words of Isaiah which show us a scene of complete tranquillity, when all the savagery of the beasts of the field are removed:
"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea" (Isa 11:6-9).
What I like about this passage is how it demonstrates how one day man will reclaim dominion over the earth, and his subjugation of the animal kingdom (Gen 1:28 ; Psa 8).
All can see this is speaking to a future Christ and his victory over sin and death. Having removed the enmity in his flesh which held him condemned to death all his days Heb 2:14,15.
How?
Christ is the son born of the virgin in Isa 7:14; he is also the child born "unto us" in Isa 9:6.
Was God to become a suckling child?
Don’t be foolish!
This child would have a mother, though a sinner herself, nonetheless a marvel of spirituality and virtue. And we finally know this flesh and blood child began to die as he was born into a dreadful age .
He was eventually weaned (Isa 11:8) and grew in favour with his Father and man.
Not a God-man as many here believe but a unique child which saw Yahweh become personally involved in creation for the first time through a Son.
Amen.