22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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Randy Kluth

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Do you not see @Paul Malcomson MO? Can not stick to a point, directly answer a question, litters his posts with defections, creating rabbit holes with the hope of sucking you in?

Oh definitely. I've pleaded with this guy to act like a Christian for years now. Amil is his idol, put quite simply. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's what I've observed over a long period of time. He will only say something nice about you if you agree with him. That's hardly like God who showers blessings on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

But yes, his arguments leave a lot to be desired. He has done enough study to be dangerous, but then takes advantage of his knowledge to bludgeon people with an assortment of attacks, usually planned well in advance and saved on his storage devices. That's why we get repeat arguments, seemingly with no inference that he had the least of concerns for your own arguments.
 

Randy Kluth

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You made a long post and answered NOT one question I asked.
A LONG POST AGAIN, without answering AGAIN.

In his arrogance, PM thinks you have to answer *his questions,* and insults you by ignoring *your questions.* Yes, this is his MO. I have to say there are moments when it does seem he tries to engage you in the thought you have, but it's *never* with a humble suggestion, "maybe you have a point." There is no humility in the guy--just rage against you if you disagree with him. He projects on you bitterness, rage, frustration when it is he who is the "angry man."
 

WPM

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In his arrogance, PM thinks you have to answer *his questions,* and insults you by ignoring *your questions.* Yes, this is his MO. I have to say there are moments when it does seem he tries to engage you in the thought you have, but it's *never* with a humble suggestion, "maybe you have a point." There is no humility in the guy--just rage against you if you disagree with him. He projects on you bitterness, rage, frustration when it is he who is the "angry man."

Your campaign of hate is starting to expose itself. Bitterness is an awful cancer that destroys the person carrying it. Ad hominem is where you are at your happiest. I refuse to get into the mud with you.
 
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WPM

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Do you not see @Paul Malcomson MO? Can not stick to a point, directly answer a question, litters his posts with defections, creating rabbit holes with the hope of sucking you in?

Obviously you have no answers to what is presented. I addressed your enquiries.
 

Taken

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Oh definitely. I've pleaded with this guy to act like a Christian for years now. Amil is his idol, put quite simply. Yes, that's my opinion, but it's what I've observed over a long period of time. He will only say something nice about you if you agree with him. That's hardly like God who showers blessings on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

But yes, his arguments leave a lot to be desired. He has done enough study to be dangerous, but then takes advantage of his knowledge to bludgeon people with an assortment of attacks, usually planned well in advance and saved on his storage devices. That's why we get repeat arguments, seemingly with no inference that he had the least of concerns for your own arguments.

Appears to spend a great deal of time “studying” insignificance men, and then tries to Dictate everyone his wags a finger at should defend or stand against these “unknown” men. What a waste of time.

He’s all over the place, but can not answer simple questions.
 
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Taken

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Obviously you have no answers to what is presented. I addressed your enquiries.

I didn’t ask you to address, explain, lecture anything.

I asked for a concise answer to a few questions.

You didn’t.

Obviously, I am not going to answer your questions.

Door swings both ways.
 

WPM

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Do you not see @Paul Malcomson MO? Can not stick to a point, directly answer a question, litters his posts with defections, creating rabbit holes with the hope of sucking you in?

I didn’t ask you to address, explain, lecture anything.

I asked for a concise answer to a few questions.

You didn’t.

Obviously, I am not going to answer your questions.

Door swings both ways.

Have a look at what you write and ask. Your posts are hard to follow. They are all over the place. The questions are scattered. It might not be surprising that it is difficult to know what to focus in on. When one doesn't address your broad sweeping enquiries you then attack them. Until you simplify your questions and make your posts clearer i am going to ignore them.
 

Randy Kluth

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Your campaign of hate is starting to expose itself. Bitterness is an awful cancer that destroys the person carrying it. Ad hominem is where you are at your happiest. I refuse to get into the mud with you.

You are projecting again. I don't have an ounce of hate for you. You're a brother, and I respect your studies. But you've failed to practice as a Christian--just knowledge. I act like this because I've given up on you--as I said earlier, you've proven yourself to be incorrigible, unteachable, and narcissistic. You seem to be looking for followers, for confirmation that you're right. Why else would you make this an idol?
 

Taken

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In his arrogance, PM thinks you have to answer *his questions,* and insults you by ignoring *your questions.* Yes, this is his MO. I have to say there are moments when it does seem he tries to engage you in the thought you have, but it's *never* with a humble suggestion, "maybe you have a point." There is no humility in the guy--just rage against you if you disagree with him. He projects on you bitterness, rage, frustration when it is he who is the "angry man."

It’s like asking your child Linda, what did you learn in Sunday school...
And Linda says.... Sally doesn’t like to sit by Bobby, and Bobby’s likes hamburgers but doesn’t like cheeseburgers and argues with everyone who does like cheeseburgers because Jesus didn’t eat cheeseburgers and Bobby’s g-g-g-g-g-great grandfather believed that hell was not a geographical place so Bobby doesn’t like people who believe in hell is a place and Susie was mad because she broke her fingernail that her mom had just polished, which means Bobby thinks Susie is probably a devil lover anyway because she on nail polish.....
AND? You say, Did you learn anything about Jesus?
AND? Linda says, I already told you....you are so dumb....
Jesus didn’t eat cheeseburgers.

That’s about how I see his posts.... nonsense.
 
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WPM

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You are projecting again. I don't have an ounce of hate for you. You're a brother, and I respect your studies. But you've failed to practice as a Christian--just knowledge. I act like this because I've given up on you--as I said earlier, you've proven yourself to be incorrigible, unteachable, and narcissistic. You seem to be looking for followers, for confirmation that you're right. Why else would you make this an idol?

No idols. I love the truth and it is that that you have an issue with. Continue your campaign of hate if you wish but it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't see it gaining any support for your arguments - venting never does. It just adds credence to your opponents.
 

Taken

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No idols. I love the truth and it is that that you have an issue with. Continue your campaign of hate if you wish but it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't see it gaining any support for your arguments - venting never does. It just adds credence to your opponents.

Very immature to confuse disagreement with hate...
 
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Truth7t7

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So what is Rev 20: 2,3,4,5,6,7. 1,000 yr reign talking about?

Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
It's not talking g about a Kingdom on this earth with mortal humans presentis it, because no Kingdom or Mortals on this earth exist in Revelation 20:1-6, will you now be silent on these facts?
 

Truth7t7

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First of all there is no argument.
Some believe this others believe that...it’s a disagreement.

No, ones entire understanding does not hang on Rev 20:1-6.

Rev 20: 1-7 expressly ( 7 Times ) identifies a specific 1,000 year time frame...



First..review: Rev 11: The two witnesses are preaching IN Jerusalem, are killed, ascend up AND an earthquake destroys 1/10 of Jerusalem.
7,000 killed, and the remnant were afraid and gave glory to God.
The 7th Angel sounds the 7th TRUMP...and WHAT?
......That ‘no Kingdom” in you could not find in Rev 20 ?
......Was already established in Rev 11:15.
......Those “no Mortal humans on earth” you could not find in Rev 20 ?
......Are called the Remnant 9/10 th’s of Jerusalem’s mortals (not killed) in Rev 11:13


Rev 11:
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
[12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
[13] And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
[14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

If you review ancient History. God established an EVERLASTING Throne in the city of JERUSALEM. God seated David on that Throne. That throne has NOT been occupied for centuries. THAT is the Throne Christ Jesus SHALL Occupy....in HIS KINGDOM....
KINGDOMS have LAND BORDERS...
KINGDOMS of THIS World are called NATIONS.
The KINGDOM of Christ Jesus, IS the LAND BORDERS, of LAND promised to Abraham AND HIS Heirs.
(Remember, Jesus was SENT to earth, born from a virgin woman’s womb? Remember that woman married a man named Joesph? Remember Joseph was OF THE HOUSE DAVID? Remember God appointed David KING? Remember ONLY a RIGHTFUL “LEGAL” Heir...
Of the House of David, OF a descendent of Abraham...can OCCUPY, Davids Throne and Abraham Land?
.......Pretty convenient JESUS, was revealed...LEGALLY born of the House of David AND a LEGAL descendent of Abraham.......eh?

HOW ABOUT JESUS.......KING of kings......?
Rev 19:16
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jesus is KING........of what kings?
......Uh, His Kingdom....Land promised to Abraham’s heirs...
......Uh, His Throne......Jerusalem

.....Other kingdoms......Nations.....
.....Other thrones.........sitting kings are WHO? Immortals ruling over immortals?

And AFTER the 1,000 years.......then what?
Satan is loosed and DOES WHAT? Deceives the nations!
What nations? Nations of “IMMORTALS” ... Nations of “MORTALS”, You say are not present on the earth?

Rev.20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

You writing umpteen times, “fairytale” “lies’, are simply your irrelevant opinionated accusations.
The importance of Rev 20: is it specifically identifies a 1,000 yr reign EXPRESSLY Seven times.
And No, Rev 20 is NOT the entirely of the Knowledge or Understanding or PURPOSE regarding Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr earthly reign.

Christ Jesus’ earthly Kingdom is a very important part of the future, and the Reason for His Reign VOID of Satan’s Influence on mortal Kingdoms is Paramount.
To simply brush Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year earthly Reign...with your opinion of “fairytale and lies” is disingenuous.


Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

As stated no Kingdom or Mortals on this earth are seen in Revelation 20:1-6

No the words (Thousand Years) doesn't mean a literal Kingdom with Mortals present upon earth for 1,000 years, you add to scripture something not seen


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Truth7t7

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First of all there is no argument.
Some believe this others believe that...it’s a disagreement.

No, ones entire understanding does not hang on Rev 20:1-6.

Rev 20: 1-7 expressly ( 7 Times ) identifies a specific 1,000 year time frame...



First..review: Rev 11: The two witnesses are preaching IN Jerusalem, are killed, ascend up AND an earthquake destroys 1/10 of Jerusalem.
7,000 killed, and the remnant were afraid and gave glory to God.
The 7th Angel sounds the 7th TRUMP...and WHAT?
......That ‘no Kingdom” in you could not find in Rev 20 ?
......Was already established in Rev 11:15.
......Those “no Mortal humans on earth” you could not find in Rev 20 ?
......Are called the Remnant 9/10 th’s of Jerusalem’s mortals (not killed) in Rev 11:13


Rev 11:
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
[12] And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
[13] And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
[14] The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

If you review ancient History. God established an EVERLASTING Throne in the city of JERUSALEM. God seated David on that Throne. That throne has NOT been occupied for centuries. THAT is the Throne Christ Jesus SHALL Occupy....in HIS KINGDOM....
KINGDOMS have LAND BORDERS...
KINGDOMS of THIS World are called NATIONS.
The KINGDOM of Christ Jesus, IS the LAND BORDERS, of LAND promised to Abraham AND HIS Heirs.
(Remember, Jesus was SENT to earth, born from a virgin woman’s womb? Remember that woman married a man named Joesph? Remember Joseph was OF THE HOUSE DAVID? Remember God appointed David KING? Remember ONLY a RIGHTFUL “LEGAL” Heir...
Of the House of David, OF a descendent of Abraham...can OCCUPY, Davids Throne and Abraham Land?
.......Pretty convenient JESUS, was revealed...LEGALLY born of the House of David AND a LEGAL descendent of Abraham.......eh?

HOW ABOUT JESUS.......KING of kings......?
Rev 19:16
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Jesus is KING........of what kings?
......Uh, His Kingdom....Land promised to Abraham’s heirs...
......Uh, His Throne......Jerusalem

.....Other kingdoms......Nations.....
.....Other thrones.........sitting kings are WHO? Immortals ruling over immortals?

And AFTER the 1,000 years.......then what?
Satan is loosed and DOES WHAT? Deceives the nations!
What nations? Nations of “IMMORTALS” ... Nations of “MORTALS”, You say are not present on the earth?

Rev.20
[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

You writing umpteen times, “fairytale” “lies’, are simply your irrelevant opinionated accusations.
The importance of Rev 20: is it specifically identifies a 1,000 yr reign EXPRESSLY Seven times.
And No, Rev 20 is NOT the entirely of the Knowledge or Understanding or PURPOSE regarding Christ Jesus’ 1,000 yr earthly reign.

Christ Jesus’ earthly Kingdom is a very important part of the future, and the Reason for His Reign VOID of Satan’s Influence on mortal Kingdoms is Paramount.
To simply brush Christ Jesus’ 1,000 year earthly Reign...with your opinion of “fairytale and lies” is disingenuous.
Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
 

Taken

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It's not talking g about a Kingdom on this earth with mortal humans presentis it, because no Kingdom or Mortals on this earth exist in Revelation 20:1-6, will you now be silent on these facts?

Why does the truth annoy you?
 

Taken

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Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Not deceived.


As stated no Kingdom or Mortals on this earth are seen in Revelation 20:1-6

Rev 20:

[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,
Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

What nations has Satan been deceiving? Rev 20:3
What nations shall Satan not be deceiving for 1,000 yrs? Rev 20:3
What nations shall Satan again deceive after 1,000 yrs? Rev 20: 7-8
 
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Truth7t7

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What nations has Satan been deceiving? Rev 20:3
What nations shall Satan not be deceiving for 1,000 yrs? Rev 20:3
What nations shall Satan again deceive after 1,000 yrs? Rev 20: 7-8
The answers to your questions above are found in my post #2554 above, that was posted "30 minutes" before your response here
 
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