The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Truth7t7]

No, it is a literal period of time written using the Greek number for exactly a thousand of something.

There's no literal time in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, Revelation 20:1-6 is the Lord's eternal spiritual realm (Thousand Years) not literal earthly time as you claim

Revelation 20:1-6 Angel, Heaven, Satan, Devil, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% spiritual realm, no literal earthly time, no kingdom, or mortal humans are seen "None"!

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Yes God does send down Tribulation....
He’s MAD, ANGRY.
Remember last time God got very angry and send down His Tribulation and Wrath...? (FLOOD, killed everyone but 8.)

No, that is not a correct statement. God’s wrath was the flood. God’s anger and wrath isn’t tribulation. Pre-Trib can’t get it right.

Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.

Where is wrath, anger or God’s judgment here? Now look at these two:

1. Transliteration: orgé
Phonetic Spelling: (or-gay')
Definition: impulse, wrath
Usage: anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.

2. Transliteration: thumos
Phonetic Spelling: (thoo-mos')
Definition: passion
Usage: an outburst of passion, wrath.

Tribulation is Never, ever, ever, ever, wrath! It’s not from God. It’s from wicked man and Satan. City destruction is Orge and Thumos. The bowls are Thumos. Mystery Babylon destroyed is Orge. Mankind being hurt is thlipsis. It’s 2022. Read your Bible and understand the words and their differences.

 

[ewq1938]

There's no literal time in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm,

That is false.

Revelation 20:1-6 is the Lord's eternal spiritual realm (Thousand Years) not literal earthly time as you claim

It is a rule over the nations on Earth for exactly one thousand years.

or mortal humans are seen "None"!

lol, that goes against everything Rev 19-20 tells us not to mention Rev 2 which also speaks of the nations being ruled over.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is false.



It is a rule over the nations on Earth for exactly one thousand years.




lol, that goes against everything Rev 19-20 tells us not to mention Rev 2 which also speaks of the nations being ruled over.

Your Dreams And Fairy Tales Found No Place In Scripture

 

[ewq1938]

Your Dreams And Fairy Tales Found No Place In Scripture

You say that because what I am saying is found in scripture and you cannot dispute it so you just make a baseless claim.

 

[Taken]

That happens after the great tribulation of satan's wrath.

And what about the Wrath of the Lamb...
When does that occur?

 

[Taken]

You say that because what I am saying is found in scripture and you cannot dispute it so you just make a baseless claim.

He has been shown and quoted scripture and still denies.
Just shows he has a different Gospel.

 

[Taken]

A whole bunch of writing that says absolutely nothing related to the topic at hand

A Converted man has the Holy Spirit IN Him.
Obvious you do not comprehend God does not send Tribulation and Wrath upon Himself!

 

[Taken]

Your claim is false again, Luke is speaking to Christians (Church) that are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:12KJV
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

So you say...Christians ... delivered up to the synagogues?

 

[Taken]

Pinocchio's not in my Bible. Is he in your (Truth7t7) Bible?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your claim is "False"

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and witness the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Of course the church will be present on earth during the tribulation. The bowls of wrath are NOT the tribulation.
In Luke 21, Jesus tells us when to look up.

As I said in a previous post, the Trumpets are signs and warnings. Luke 21:25 describes the trumpets, which are celestial in nature, which causes distress on earth.
Luke 21:26 is the other half of process. Verse 25 are the signs, verse 26 are those attempting to interpret the signs.
Luke 21:27 locates the Second Advent just after these signs, which is consistent with Revelation, which locates the Second Advent at the end of the Trumpets.
Luke 21:28 tells us when to look up. We look up when these things begin to come to pass, not after they come to pass.

While other men will faint for fear, not knowing what the celestial signs mean, the disciples of Jesus will know and gain hope, anticipating the coming of the Son of man.

Daniel says that he will come with the clouds of heaven. Jesus also said this same thing. He tells us that his disciples will be gathered together to meet him in the air. Paul makes this explicit in 1 Thessalonians 4:11. In that context, the Greek word for "air" is the lower, more dense air. In other words we will meet the lord in the atmosphere.

 

[Taken]

No, that is not a correct statement. God’s wrath was the flood. God’s anger and wrath isn’t tribulation. Pre-Trib can’t get it right.

Transliteration: thlipsis
Phonetic Spelling: (thlip'-sis)
Definition: tribulation
Usage: persecution, affliction, distress, tribulation.

Where is wrath, anger or God’s judgment here? Now look at these two:

1. Transliteration: orgé
Phonetic Spelling: (or-gay')
Definition: impulse, wrath
Usage: anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance.

2. Transliteration: thumos
Phonetic Spelling: (thoo-mos')
Definition: passion
Usage: an outburst of passion, wrath.

Tribulation is Never, ever, ever, ever, wrath! It’s not from God. It’s from wicked man and Satan. City destruction is Orge and Thumos. The bowls are Thumos. Mystery Babylon destroyed is Orge. Mankind being hurt is thlipsis. It’s 2022. Read your Bible and understand the words and their differences.

Not true.

The Lord DOES become ANGRY.
The Lord DOES send His TRIBULATIONS.
The Lords TRIBULATIONS ARE the Lords WRATH upon WHOM He IS ANGRY with.



Ex 15:
[3] The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
[4] Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea.
[5] The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone.
[6] Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
[7] And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble.

Num 16:
[46] And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.

Deut 29:
[23] And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:
[28] And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

 

[Taken]

No, that is not a correct statement. God’s wrath was the flood. God’s anger and wrath isn’t tribulation. Pre-Trib can’t get it right.

God’s ANGER - is Gods Emotion Against Men Against God.
God’s WRATH - is Gods Heightened ANGER Against men Against God.
God’s TRIBULATION’S - Are SIGNS, PREVIEWS, WARNINGS...For the ungodly men AGAINST God, to TAKE NOTICE of HIS POWER, that in an Instant can destroy men off the face of the earth.

ISOLATED....Weather disturbances, Lack of rain, Famines, Swarms of Insects released to consume crops, Volcano eruptions, Winds, Roaring Seas destroying sea ports, tornados, lightening strikes burning forests, Disease increases.....
* ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION to Gods ISOLATED Power Previews?
* ARE YOU engrossed IN LENDING your EAR to “round tables of men”...
DICTATING “how THEY shall SAVE the World”....(by, through, of...confiscating the people’s wealth and down sizing the world’s populations)...tee hee.

Read your Bible and understand the words and their differences.

Good IDEA. @No Pre-TB as your chosen name reveals, having ZERO confidence in Gods Word and Manner, That He SHALL SEPARATE those WITH Him, from Those WITHOUT Him...

Remember...
The LORD GODS SPIRIT, is With Some men...THEY CAN FALL AWAY...They HAVE ZERO protection Against the evils and wicked men of this world.

Remember...
The LORD GODS SPIRIT, is IN Some men...
God AGAINST THEM...”would be God AGAINST Himself”.... God Forbid!!

God does NOT subject Himself, or men IN Christ Jesus, to Gods anger, tribulations, Destruction!

So LEARN THE DIFFERENCE!

* The Lord HAS become VERY ANGRY with the INHABITANTS of the Earth IN THE PAST.
* SO ANGRY, in FACT, He destroyed THE WHOLE EARTH, with WATER.
* AND BEFORE He Destroyed the WHOLE EARTH, He LOOKED and FOUND 8 Faithful inhabitants of the EARTH.
* AND? HOW DID God SAVE THE 8 FAITHFUL whose habit IS the Earth?
* RAISED THEM UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH!
(Gen. 6, 7, 8, 9)

* Gods PROMISE?
TO AGAIN, BECOME Angry with the unfaithful inhabitants of the Earth.
TO AGAIN, SEND His Tribulations upon the EARTH.
TO AGAIN, CAUSE the Unfaithful inhabitants of the Earth to be Subjected to HIS WRATH.
TO AGAIN, RAISE UP HIS Faithful ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, WHILE GOD Destroys the EARTH.
(1 Thes 4: 1-18)

* IN CONTEXT...
While Faithful Noah was building the arc, per Gods Instructions.
The inhabitants of the Earth were carrying on in the same MANNER that CAUSED Gods ANGER.

Matt 24:
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark...

Matt 24: 1-20 Tribulations...wars, rumors of wars, famines, weather disturbances, men hating believers, etc. (The World carrying on as usual, Liars, Cheats, Thieves uplifted, God Lovers silenced, ignored, downtrodden ...the unbelievers (preaching THEY are the savior and fixer of the weather, the wars, the health, the famines, the safety, etc.) NOT noticing that Gods ANGER is Waxing, Increasing...

* Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[No Pre-TB]

God’s ANGER - is Gods Emotion Against Men Against God.
God’s WRATH - is Gods Heightened ANGER Against men Against God.
God’s TRIBULATION’S - Are SIGNS, PREVIEWS, WARNINGS...For the ungodly men AGAINST God, to TAKE NOTICE of HIS POWER, that in an Instant can destroy men off the face of the earth.

ISOLATED....Weather disturbances, Lack of rain, Famines, Swarms of Insects released to consume crops, Volcano eruptions, Winds, Roaring Seas destroying sea ports, tornados, lightening strikes burning forests, Disease increases.....
* ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION to Gods ISOLATED Power Previews?
* ARE YOU engrossed IN LENDING your EAR to “round tables of men”...
DICTATING “how THEY shall SAVE the World”....(by, through, of...confiscating the people’s wealth and down sizing the world’s populations)...tee hee.



Good IDEA. @No Pre-TB as your chosen name reveals, having ZERO confidence in Gods Word and Manner, That He SHALL SEPARATE those WITH Him, from Those WITHOUT Him...

Remember...
The LORD GODS SPIRIT, is With Some men...THEY CAN FALL AWAY...They HAVE ZERO protection Against the evils and wicked men of this world.

Remember...
The LORD GODS SPIRIT, is IN Some men...
God AGAINST THEM...”would be God AGAINST Himself”.... God Forbid!!

God does NOT subject Himself, or men IN Christ Jesus, to Gods anger, tribulations, Destruction!

So LEARN THE DIFFERENCE!

* The Lord HAS become VERY ANGRY with the INHABITANTS of the Earth IN THE PAST.
* SO ANGRY, in FACT, He destroyed THE WHOLE EARTH, with WATER.
* AND BEFORE He Destroyed the WHOLE EARTH, He LOOKED and FOUND 8 Faithful inhabitants of the EARTH.
* AND? HOW DID God SAVE THE 8 FAITHFUL whose habit IS the Earth?
* RAISED THEM UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH!
(Gen. 6, 7, 8, 9)

* Gods PROMISE?
TO AGAIN, BECOME Angry with the unfaithful inhabitants of the Earth.
TO AGAIN, SEND His Tribulations upon the EARTH.
TO AGAIN, CAUSE the Unfaithful inhabitants of the Earth to be Subjected to HIS WRATH.
TO AGAIN, RAISE UP HIS Faithful ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, WHILE GOD Destroys the EARTH.
(1 Thes 4: 1-18)

* IN CONTEXT...
While Faithful Noah was building the arc, per Gods Instructions.
The inhabitants of the Earth were carrying on in the same MANNER that CAUSED Gods ANGER.

Matt 24:
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark...

Matt 24: 1-20 Tribulations...wars, rumors of wars, famines, weather disturbances, men hating believers, etc. (The World carrying on as usual, Liars, Cheats, Thieves uplifted, God Lovers silenced, ignored, downtrodden ...the unbelievers (preaching THEY are the savior and fixer of the weather, the wars, the health, the famines, the safety, etc.) NOT noticing that Gods ANGER is Waxing, Increasing...

* Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Your wall of text is nothing more than a poor defense. You can quote scripture till your eyes bleed but without proper understanding, it falls on deaf ears. Btw, that’s not meant to upset or inflame. Walls of text are really a bad way to respond. I’ve been guilty of it myself.

I gave you the definitions of each Koine Greek word. You choose to ignore them. You specifically linked tribulation with God’s wrath and with anger. And that in itself is incorrect.

If you hold to the Pre-Tb theory, that’s fine. But Pre-Tb can easily say we are not here for wrath. That’s it! When you begin to say tribulation, that is your gross error. Because the 2 are not identical in word, definition, construction or purpose. You use it interchangeably and they are very different. I wonder if you ever read anything from Paul because he tells us to endure thlipsis which is tribulation ie. Persecution. The word tells us we are like sheep to be slaughter. We are to suffer for him. But our suffering is nothing compared to the Glory we’ll have with him. As far as Great Tribulation goes, great is Mega which means widespread. That tribulation isn’t localized say to one county or country perhaps but everywhere. The idea is persecution wherever we go, we can’t escape. There is nothing to suggest the Church cannot undergo persecution whether great or little. Neither is wrath.

 

[Taken]

Your wall of text is nothing more than a poor defense.

I don’t defend Gods Teaching. I embrace it, share it, and no effect on me of others that reject Gods Teaching.

You can quote scripture till your eyes bleed but without proper understanding,

I Trust am content with who Gives me scriptural understanding.

I gave you the definitions of each Koine Greek word. You choose to ignore them. You specifically linked tribulation with God’s wrath and with anger. And that in itself is incorrect.

God gets angry.
Can you see God? See He is angry?
Can you see when God IS FED UP intensely ANGRY?
That is Gods WRATH, intense Anger.

Again...can you See Gods Anger, See when Gods Anger waxes HOT, Intense?
No...But you can See the EFFECT of Gods Anger, and Intense Anger.
TRIBULATIONS sent from God...are the EFFECTS...
Bit by bit....to get your attention.
Increases by increase....to get “to busy” people’s attention.
Full Blown Wrath....to reveal “hey you messed up”... and NO DOUBT that message is FROM GOD....”NOW see IF you don’t believe”!

Nothing new...It’s sort of like...you know taught throughout the entire Bible!

If you hold to the Pre-Tb theory, that’s fine.

Lol cute. Really, YOU think I laid down my LIFE for a “theory”...?
Get real. Absolutely I trust the Lord God Almighty IS Faithful and True.
You think “He” punishes Those who wholly committed to Him?
Now THAT IS TWISTED, unjust, and utterly False.

But Pre-Tb can easily say we are not here for wrath.

Actually...That is Gods WILL...

...tribulation ie. Persecution. The word tells us we are like sheep to be slaughter. We are to suffer for him.

Uh...
where ya been...MEN have Persecuted Godly men FOR CENTURIES!

Did you QUIT believing...so men would quit persecuting you?

Did you Voluntarily Give your body to death? Or are you not willing to Die for your Love of God?

Do you think yourself more Nobel to Have the Wrath of the Lamb come down on you, because you failed to commit to God?

Do you think yourself more Nobel to Have the Wrath of the Devil come down on you, because you failed to commit to God?

Do you think yourself more Nobel to Have the Wrath of God come down on you, because you failed to commit to God?

I didn’t have to SEE God, SEE Gods Anger, SEE the Wrath of the Lamb, of the Devil, of God.........to say oh gee, I wonder why God is so mad!

Already confessed my Belief (my works).
Already took my trip to the Slaughter (my service).
Already Received Gods Promise. (Conversion, not subject to wrath).
Works and Service I do thereafter is between God and myself.
Already prepared and waiting for the Lords call...

You want to experience the horrific wrath of God...Okay...enjoy!

 

[Timtofly]

Planes falling outta the sky and such. Didn’t you watch those movies Left Behind? It’ll happen

No they can't fall out of the sky. They will be burned up when the heavens roll back as a scroll. Planes are included in the works that are burned up at the Second Coming. People will die, just not all of humanity during the Seals. If it is a time of war, planes may be grounded any ways.

 

[The Light]

The disciples then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words.

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Mark 13:4 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”

Luke 21:7 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

There is no talk of AD 70 in these passages. That is where the confusion of most Bible students begins. Both questions speak of end times.

The disciples ask two questions. Looking at Luke, "When will these things be?" When will WHAT THINGS be?

Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

When will there not be one stone another? You think this has happened. It hasn't and the second question proves it. "and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Since you think that the first question occurred in 70 AD. What sign was there when these things (Not one stone upon another at the Temple site) came to pass?

Paul the Jeopardy tune is playing in the background.

 

[Timtofly]

You have been clearly shown that the consummation seen in Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in the destruction of Israel in AD 70.

Executed by the Roman armies under the control of Messiah the Prince.

Avoided by the Judean Christians, who heeded Jesus' words in Matthew 24:15-16 and fled before the ensuing great tribulation could engulf them.

Verified entire complete historical Scriptural fulfillment.

You have been clearly shown that Satan, the FP, and the beast were not ruling over the whole world with a Babylonian style government from Jerusalem for 42 months between 66 and 70AD. Name one person beheaded between 66 and 70 AD. Were they resurrected and living in Jerusalem still to this day? Did Jesus and the angels send all 8 billion on earth in 65 AD to their eternal destination, everlasting life or everlasting damnation? Where were those billions (as the sands of the seashore) consumed by fire from heaven at the same time on earth in 70AD? Since all that happens at the same time, with no human left alive period, the ultimate consummation of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. You claim all wickedness gone and accomplished and a new heaven and earth in 70AD. There is literally no more death and decay, nor sin from 70AD on. We are in eternity, as some put it. This is as good and perfect as it will get forever? There were no dark ages nor popes nor Reformation. That was all fictional historical readings, because, you know, even perfect righteous people like to read about sin and Satan, and the AC. Even though the former things have not been remembered, so all is new historical fiction? Even the past prior to 70AD has been rewritten, because no one for sure knew what happened prior to 70AD.

How can you claim all had been fulfilled in the NT and OT by 70AD? The church was just getting started. You have thrown out the baby with the bath water, literally.

 

[WPM]

There is no talk of AD 70 in these passages. That is where the confusion of most Bible students begins. Both questions speak of end times.

The disciples ask two questions. Looking at Luke, "When will these things be?" When will WHAT THINGS be?

Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

When will there not be one stone another? You think this has happened. It hasn't and the second question proves it. "and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Since you think that the first question occurred in 70 AD. What sign was there when these things (Not one stone upon another at the Temple site) came to pass?

Paul the Jeopardy tune is playing in the background.

When they saw the Roman soldiers approaching. When ye see the desolaters approach, which are drawn as a result of the temple abominations, then flee. When ye see the desolaters coming to destroy the location of the abominations, flee.

 

[Timtofly]

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and witness the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The church has been present in great tribulation since Pentecost for 1992 years. Certainly there was not a pre-trib rapture prior to Pentecost. You are getting your great trib mixed up with the great tribulation, called the final harvest in Matthew 13 where it clearly states Jesus and the angels are physically present on the earth.

This is not the parable, but the explanation to the disciples only:

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

The Cross finishes up one age, and Jesus was explaining the end of the next age, the fulness of the Gentiles. You know the one that many claim is a single age ending in the first century, because being dispensational is too "human minded"?

The Cross ended the OT age. This final harvest, The GT will end the NT age, but the church will be gone, as Jesus and the angels come to earth. The time all 8 billion will be harvested one way or the other, over several months, not in a blink of an eye vaporized, per Amil.