The Pre-Trib Rapture

[The Light]

Scripture teaches the redeemed Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ

Luke 21:25-29KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Scripture only teaches that the blind foolish virgins will be on earth during the tribulation.

As for verse 28, the Lord is talking to the 12 tribes that will be on earth during the 70th week of Daniel. In regards, to the Church, here is the verse you are looking for. To those that look for Him He will appear a second time. So it would be better to watch as instructed.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[No Pre-TB]

No such thing as a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you continue to claim, its a fabricated fairy tale of man found no place in scripture

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Except Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

A thousand years translates to a millennium.
5507 xílioi – properly, a thousand; the product of 10 x 10 x 10 (103, ten cubed); (figuratively) emphatic, total inclusiveness, showing no one (nothing) is left out. See also "the Millennium" in the HELPS prophecy-guide.

mil·len·ni·um
/məˈlenēəm/
noun

• 1.a period of a thousand years, especially when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ: "silver first came into use on a substantial scale during the 3rd millennium"
• 2.an anniversary of a thousand years:

Since Christ will reign for 1 thousand years (millennium), and he will be reigning in his kingdom whether you think it’s literal or spiritual, it’s a millennial kingdom regardless per that verse.

If anyone changes anything in this book, like that verse, they are subject to removal from the book of life. Tread carefully!

As for the earth, it’s said in Rev 11:15
The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

This world is his reign on earth.

 

[Taken]

Nope. I don’t struggle with those things. Thank you though for your loving concerns.

Tribulation will always be distress. Not God’s anger or wrath.

Tribulation DISTRESS......duh no kidding! Not news!

Tribulations HAVE an instigator THAT CAUSES Tribulations.
The INSTIGATOR...CAUSES Tribulations, FOR REASONS.

NOTHING NEW...
men for eons have been the Instigator of Tribulations..
The Cause (instigator) of Tribulations AGAINST men.
Because (example reasons) the Instigator, is mad, is angry, hates, is jealous, is greedy, self-more deserving, etc. etc.

NOTHING NEW...
God has been the Instigator of Tribulations..
The Cause (instigator) of Tribulations AGAINST men.
Because (example reasons) the Instigator, is mad, is angry, hates, is jealous, OF MEN, who deny Him, rejects Him, encourages other men to deny Him, reject Him.

WRATH is the Instigator’s being MAD, having INCREASED exponentially.

It’s not rocket science to comprehend the difference between...
AN EMOTION and A STRONGER EMOTION and A WARNING that a STRONGER EMOTION shall RESULT IN THE ACTION OF CAUSING TRIBULATION AGAINST the man who Stirred the Anger and Wrath EMOTION.

Not sure why you are having such a DIFFICULT issue understanding the Differences between EMOTIONS (mad, wrath) of one and the ACTS (tribulations) of that one THAT is expressly to cause DURESS and SUFFERING AGAINST an other.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Not sure why you are having such a DIFFICULT issue understanding the Differences between EMOTIONS (mad, wrath) of one and the ACTS (tribulations) of that one THAT is expressly to cause DURESS and SUFFERING AGAINST an other.

I understand emotions fine. I recognize that God can be angry. I recognize Newtons 3rd law. And I recognize that an emotion can trigger a response.

What you don’t understand is God’s out poured wrath is the response for his anger against sin. Tribulation is not. You confuse the two thereby ignorant of its meaning and connotations. Like a brick wall, your heart is hardened against learning. Read Romans, tribulation is all over the place and it’s never God’s anger on us. It’s not his reason for an emotion. It’s wicked men on earth doing evil.

When you say the first flood was tribulation, and you were showed otherwise, your continuance in doing so is preaching lies. I can’t help you anymore. Let the dust of my feet by a witness against you. Have a good day.

 

[marks]

Like a brick wall, your heart is hardened against learning.

Yuck!

 

[Taken]

Except Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

A thousand years translates to a millennium.
5507 xílioi – properly, a thousand; the product of 10 x 10 x 10 (103, ten cubed); (figuratively) emphatic, total inclusiveness, showing no one (nothing) is left out. See also "the Millennium" in the HELPS prophecy-guide.

mil·len·ni·um
/məˈlenēəm/
noun

• 1.a period of a thousand years, especially when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ: "silver first came into use on a substantial scale during the 3rd millennium"
• 2.an anniversary of a thousand years:

Since Christ will reign for 1 thousand years (millennium), and he will be reigning in his kingdom whether you think it’s literal or spiritual, it’s a millennial kingdom regardless per that verse.

Yes, (in contrast to @Truth7t7 preaching).
Christ’s One thousand years reign.
With KING Christ in His KINGDOM, His Saints.
In Nations kingdoms, kings seated, with mortal subjects.
PEACE on Earth.

As for the earth, it’s said in Rev 11:15
The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.”

This world is his reign on earth.

Yes, after the 1,000 year reign;
Satan loosed, again deceives the nations.
Spiritual warfare.
Satan defeated, bound in Bottomless pit with demon followers.
Mortals aligned with satan killed, unsaved, to hell.

Rest of dead, 2nd resurrection...
Great White throne Judgement... Rev 20: 11-12-13
ALL....Books are Opened.
ALL ...Judged For their WORKS..
....Works...of God...? BELIEVE

John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Thereafter.......Sentence....WITHOUT (according to Judgement), WITH (according to Judgement).

Sentence.....Separation....WITHOUT...the Lord God....damnation death.
Sentence.....Together........WITH........the Lord God....forever holy life.

Thereafter.....YES...New Heaven, New Earth, New Jerusalem....
Eternal AS IN HEAVEN, Forever SAME ON EARTH.
The Lord God Reigns Forever...Heaven and Earth His Kingdom;
no mortals exist.

 

[marks]

Nope. I don’t struggle with those things. Thank you though for your loving concerns.

Tribulation will always be distress. Not God’s anger or wrath. God saves us thru thlipsis. We glory in it. It strengthens us. It spiritually equips us. It allows our testimony in that day to shine like a burning flame in darkness.

Obviously you won’t address the truth of biblical meanings. This isn’t an eschatology choice: One theory over another. It’s a basis for understanding the word and its meaning.

If you say we, as Christians, are not designated to be present during God’s out poured Wrath, I agree. If you say we, as Christians, will be protected from his wrath. I agree. When you say that same wrath is tribulation, you’re saying tribulation is wrath, vengeance, and Holy out poured anger which it isn’t because the earliest language attests its meaning.

The tribulation happens pre 6th seal per an example given in Matthew 24 and Rev 7. And yet the 5th seal martyrs ask, when will God punish the wicked. Why? Because he hasn’t punished them yet during this tribulation that they seem to die in. God has not even exalted his majesty, come out of his place, marked the 144k so they will be protected, or cast a judgment to earth as fire from the alter, mimicking passages in Exodus/Leviticus till after all this. Your argument is not against me; it’s against Biblical translation, spirit filled men who penned the words and almost 2k years worth of commentary from religious leaders before we were born.

@Taken

No, reconsider, Actions and Emotions.

Thlipsis is crushing pressure, not an emotion. Thumos is anger or wrath, a feeling, not an act. What is DONE in from anger and wrath may be crushing pressure. And crushing pressure is not necessarily from anger, and anger does not necessarily crush.

Context is king, as they say.

Satan is angry, and attempts to crush everyone.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman . . .

For then shall be great tribulation, more so then ever before or ever again, and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh would survive . . .

Do you see?

In one's anger one may crush another. Wrath and tribulation, thumos and thlipsis.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

What you don’t understand is God’s out poured wrath is the response for his anger against sin.

Really? So when I said ....

EMOTION shall RESULT IN THE ACTION OF CAUSING TRIBULATION

You don’t understand that is the same thing you are saying...?
I said cause, I said result...

You say response, you said pour...

Tribulation is not. You confuse the two thereby ignorant of its meaning and connotations. Like a brick wall, your heart is hardened against learning. Read Romans, tribulation is all over the place and it’s never God’s anger on us. It’s not his reason for an emotion. It’s wicked men on earth doing evil.

When you say the first flood was tribulation, and you were showed otherwise, your continuance in doing so is preaching lies. I can’t help you anymore. Let the dust of my feet by a witness against you. Have a good day.

You are being accusatory and petty by your own ignorance.
Clearly I identified repeatedly....anger, wrath, are emotions.
Clearly I identified repeatedly....anger is mad, wrath is increased anger.
The ONE WHO IS ANGRY, IS MAD, WHOSE ANGER HAS INCREASED TO WRATH.........WHO...
THEREAFTER CAUSES AN ACT OF DURESS, SUFFERING, AGAINST THE ONE THEY ARE ANGRY WITH.......ARE THE CAUSE, INSTIGATOR OF TRIBULATION!

Really doesn’t matter if the ANGRY ONE, pours, stomps, crushes, starves....the other one......THE OTHER ONE is experiencing duress, suffering.......which is Tribulation.

Men Cause Tribulations AGAINST MEN routinely, and have for centuries.
God SHALL CAUSE Tribulations AGAINST MEN....and has WARNED men...God is Prepared to SEND UPON Men a series of great and terrible Tribulations.

So you think that is Wrong?

 

[Taken]

When you say the first flood was tribulation, and you were showed otherwise, your continuance in doing so is preaching lies.

First of all I never said “first flood”.

The Biblical World Wide flood....WAS Tribulation, duress, distress, suffering upon Every Inhabitant upon the face of the earth........

And Absolutely A Flood CAUSED BY GOD.

And Absolutely BECAUSE GOD was Angry, then Wrathful Angry, and He Caused the Flood expressly to Cause distress, suffering, and Death upon the inhabitants upon the face of the earth!

That is Basic Beginner Scriptural knowledge...
And YOU reject that Scriptural teaching?

 

[Taken]

@Taken

No, reconsider, Actions and Emotions.

Thlipsis is crushing pressure, not an emotion. Thumos is anger or wrath, a feeling, not an act. What is DONE in from anger and wrath may be crushing pressure. And crushing pressure is not necessarily from anger, and anger does not necessarily crush.

Context is king, as they say.

Satan is angry, and attempts to crush everyone.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman . . .

For then shall be great tribulation, more so then ever before or ever again, and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh would survive . . .

Do you see?

In one's anger one may crush another. Wrath and tribulation, thumos and thlipsis.

Much love!

Reconsider Actions and Emotions?

Emotion, mad, angry, really angry, wrath angry....Doesn’t affect me.
Action, ACT, DO, CAUSE, duress, distress, ie Tribulations UPON me....
NOW I am affected, with duress, distress.

What is it you want me to consider....IF one is mad, angry, really angry......WHAT? What does an others EMOTIONAL FEELINGS DO TO ME?

Warn me of a MAYBE?
Maybe they will sneak up behind me and kill me?
Maybe they will sneak into my home when I am sleeping, and Kill me?
Maybe they will spread false rumors, lies and slander about me?

What is your point?

 

[Timtofly]

Why do you believe such a confused and out of sequence idea?
Revelation gives us a clear list of events as they will happen. First the Seals, of which the first Five are already open. Soon to occur will be the Sixth seal world changer and the Seventh Seal time gap, from then until the Return.
The Sixth Seal, then, a few years later the final 3 1/2 years, when Satan will have world control, during which; the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will take place, culminating in the glorious Return of Jesus, when He will win the Battle of Armageddon.
Proved by how Jesus does not Return until AFTER all the wrath of God is over. Matthew 24:29, Revelation 15:1

Because Armageddon is a well known and planned event.

The Second Coming is not a well known and planned event. Either you are ready or you are not ready. One could prepare and sit around for 100 years doing nothing, but are prepared. Others could slip up at any moment and not be prepared, because they lived their life, not sitting around waiting.

Armageddon is not a thief in the night moment. The 6th Seal is a thief in the night moment. That is the point to always be prepared, but not always prepared. A moment when you think not.

Matthew 13 is where Jesus points out He and the angels are on the earth gathering the final harvest. That is not Armageddon. All are dead at Armageddon. The final harvest is during the Trumpets and Thunders. The harvest comes even before Satan's 42 months. Only gleanings during that time, those who choose to be beheaded to avoid the mark. Armageddon is when only Satan's followers are left and they are all killed. There is no final harvest when no one is on earth. The book of Revelation is the systematic removal of all life on earth, and the church is taken out first, because the church is the last group of husbandmen tending the vineyard.

Then Israel is harvested after Jesus restores Jerusalem. Then the nations are harvested during the 7 Thunders. This is tares and wheat at the same time. By the 7th Trumpet there may not even be a billion people on earth. Certainly by Armageddon there will only be those who will fill up the valley of Megiddo, and be the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh to be removed from the earth.

Why do people have such a difficult time with John's order of events? Revelation is John's version of the Olivet Discourse, that he actually experienced, instead of just hearing the words that day with the disciples. John's version required a separate book, than just a chapter in his Gospel.

 

[marks]

Reconsider Actions and Emotions?

Emotion, mad, angry, really angry, wrath angry....Doesn’t affect me.
Action, ACT, DO, CAUSE, duress, distress, ie Tribulations UPON me....
NOW I am affected, with duress, distress.

What is it you want me to consider....IF one is mad, angry, really angry......WHAT? What does an others EMOTIONAL FEELINGS DO TO ME?

Warn me of a MAYBE?
Maybe they will sneak up behind me and kill me?
Maybe they will sneak into my home when I am sleeping, and Kill me?
Maybe they will spread false rumors, lies and slander about me?

What is your point?

Actually, I was just tagging you on my reply to nopretrib. I agree with what you are saying about the words wrath and tribulation.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Actually, I was just tagging you on my reply to nopretrib. I agree with what you are saying about the words wrath and tribulation.

Much love!

Oh. Okay, thank you.

 

[Keraz]

Because Armageddon is a well known and planned event.

The Second Coming is not a well known and planned event

Jesus will Return and then destroy the attackers at Armageddon. As Revelation 19:11-21 very well describes.
Also described in Revelation 16:16-18 Verse 15 is a warning for us to keep alert and ready at all times.

The fact of the armies gathering and marching across Asia, is enough to show how Armageddon and the Return, cannot be a surprise to us.

Anyone with a Bible should know exactly when Jesus will Return, as it will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated, as Paul says in 2 Thess 2:4; The 42 month reign of the Beast. Revelation 13:5

Why do people have such a difficult time with John's order of events?

Your problem, not mine.
In Revelation, John gives us a coherent and logical sequence of events AND he tells us not to mess with them!

I view your end times beliefs as very confused and incoherent. I often see people complain they can't understand your posts.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When do you think he's coming? Take that time and apply this to start off.
Matt 24
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

How does this passage support the pre-trib rapture belief exactly? The rapture will occur just before the wrath Jesus will bring down on the entire earth when He returns, as described in passages like Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-9 and 2 Peter 3:10-12. So, unless your definition of the "trib" in "pre-trib" refers to the wrath that will come down on the day Christ returns, you are contradicting passages like those.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus will Return and then destroy the attackers at Armageddon. As Revelation 19:11-21 very well describes.
Also described in Revelation 16:16-18 Verse 15 is a warning for us to keep alert and ready at all times.

The fact of the armies gathering and marching across Asia, is enough to show how Armageddon and the Return, cannot be a surprise to us.

Anyone with a Bible should know exactly when Jesus will Return, as it will be exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated, as Paul says in 2 Thess 2:4; The 42 month reign of the Beast. Revelation 13:5

Your problem, not mine.
In Revelation, John gives us a coherent and logical sequence of events AND he tells us not to mess with them!

I view your end times beliefs as very confused and incoherent. I often see people complain they can't understand your posts.

Or they just have nothing to refute God's Word with.

I often see people change the chronology of Revelation, and complain it is not chronological.

Armageddon is not the Second Coming. Armageddon is not the Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Jesus rescues His people from an attack on Jerusalem, and completely changes the geographical landscape, at the Second Coming. That does not happen at Armageddon. There are not even any of Israel still alive at Armageddon. Only those humans with the mark of the beast are alive on earth at Armageddon. Different place and Satan is defiant against Jesus. At the Second Coming, Satan is just as surprised as the rest of humanity. There is no warning at the Second Coming. Other than a possible world war.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Or they just have nothing to refute God's Word with.

Why would anyone want to refute God's Word? No one here wants to do that. But, it's very easy to refute your doctrine. At least, when we can actually understand what you're saying.

I often see people change the chronology of Revelation, and complain it is not chronological.

It clearly is not all chronological, so what is your point? Obviously, the sounding of the seventh trumpet, referenced in Revelation 11, does not occur chronologically after the birth and ascension of Christ, which is referenced in Revelation 12. That is the most obvious place where the book is not chronological, but there are other places where people think it's chronological, but it's not. The seventh trumpet announced the time of the judging of the dead, which is described in Revelation 20:11-15. The book clearly contains several parallels that give different angles and details of the same events. It makes no sense to interpret it all chronologically.

 

[Timtofly]

The book clearly contains several parallels that give different angles and details of the same events. It makes no sense to interpret it all chronologically.

Only because that is your opinion along with all other Amil. But it is not Scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Second Coming is the opening of the 5th and 6th Seal, thus prior to all the Trumpets and Thunders.

The second coming is the 7th vial/7th Trump (The End)

 

[Truth7t7]

Scripture only teaches that the blind foolish virgins will be on earth during the tribulation.

As for verse 28, the Lord is talking to the 12 tribes that will be on earth during the 70th week of Daniel. In regards, to the Church, here is the verse you are looking for. To those that look for Him He will appear a second time. So it would be better to watch as instructed.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I Disagree, The Church Will Be On Earth To Witness The Great Tribulation And Second Coming