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I always heard Origen was to blame for the John 1 Word was a god rendering. ( or to be given credit for it)
No I haven't. I read where he said the early Alexandrian manuscripts had been corrupted, casting doubt on scholars ' claims that they are closest to the original.Have you read Origen’s dialogue with Heraclides?
No I haven't. I read where he said the early Alexandrian manuscripts had been corrupted, casting doubt on scholars ' claims that they are closest to the original.
You say "only God can forgive them (sins)." But there's not even one verse that says that. Do you not see what I'm looking for? Not what you think, but what does the Bible say.
As much as I want to agree with you John 20:23 seems to contradict you.It seems to be an understanding that only God can forgive sins because he's the one who is sinned against. It's not anyone's else's place to forgive a sin against God. Like if someone beat up my Mom, is my next-door neighbor going to say to me that she's forgiven the assailant's sin against my Mom? How can she do that? My Mom has to be the one to forgive the assailant.
If logic does not contradict the Bible, it must be used in interpretation of it. God has gifted us with the use of logic in order that we are able to understand his revelation of himself which he gave to us. I also feel there is nothing in God's word that says that someone else other than him can forgive sins. If there is, I would like to be directed to it. But in the example I gave above it is illogical to have an understanding that a third party can forgive a transgression between a victim and an assailant. Do you see the impossibility of forgiving a transgression that is not done unto you but against someone else? There is no reconciliation that way because the offended party and the offender are not brought together.
Maybe Deuteronomy 32:39 might be what you're looking for: "Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there anyone who can deliver from my hand."
The deliverance of course is from the wrath of God against our transgressions.
It does seem to. However it appears to be referring to the work of the church to bring sinners to repentance and in this way they receive forgiveness from God. The verse has a cross-reference to Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, both talking about what being given the keys of heaven and what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven and what it bound on earth is bound in heaven.As much as I want to agree with you John 20:23 seems to contradict you.
OK.....since scripture without interpretation and context can be misleading, what is Paul telling us here and in what environment?Colossians 2:8-9
What is The Holy Spirit in your beliefs?OK.....since scripture without interpretation and context can be misleading, what is Paul telling us here and in what environment?
Colossians 2:8-9 NASB....
“See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form”...
“takes you captive”.....Or “carries you off as his prey.” One lexicon defines the Greek word as “to gain control of by carrying off as booty, make captive of.” It continues, “in imagery of carrying someone away [from] the truth into the slavery of error.”
philosophy: The Greek word phi·lo·so·phiʹa, which occurs only here in the Christian Greek Scriptures, literally means “love of wisdom.” In Paul’s day, this word had broad usage. It commonly referred to many groups and schools of thought, including religious ones. In the only recorded interchange between Paul and Greek philosophers, the discussion centered on religious issues. (Acts 17:18-31)
Paul highlights the “empty deception” that can give people the wrong impression.
human tradition: Jesus pointed out that the Pharisees had taught “the traditions of men as doctrines” and said that this invalidated their worship (Matthew 15:7-9).....that makes these “traditions” spiritually deadly...worldly rather than based on the sound scriptural teachings promoted by Jesus.
in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form:
The context shows that having this “fullness of deity” does not make Jesus Christ equal to God Almighty, as some want to believe. The word “godhead” does not exist except as a poor translation of what is actually the “divine quality” of the Son from his Father. It is a trinitarian invention.
In the preceding chapter, Paul states: “For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.” (Colossians 1:19-20 - NASB)
So the Father is the one who caused Christ to have “the fullness” of the divine quality. Like all things pertaining to Jesus, they were given to him by his Father.....his teachings, his powers, his wisdom and knowledge did not originate from Jesus, but all things originated with the Father, including his precious son.
At Colossians 1:15, Paul says that Jesus “is the image of the invisible God,” not God himself. He is a reflection of all that his Father is. An “image” is not the real thing, just as a photograph is not you. Passports and driver’s licences have photographs so that authorities can identify you. The picture is simply what you look like, but Jesus embodied all of his Father’s qualities. He was not his physical image because spirits have no physical form.
Colossians 1:19-22 describes the reconciliation that God brings about through Christ. We are reconciled to God not to Jesus. He is the mediator who facilitated this reconciliation.....
And Colossians 2:12 shows that God raised Jesus from the dead. Christ did not raise himself.
Add to that the fact that Paul later says that “Christ is seated at the right hand of God.” (Colossians 3:1) Do you not find it strange that not once is the Holy Spirit said to be seated at God’s left hand? Where is the equal threesome?
These statements show that possession of this “fullness” does not make Jesus Christ identical with his God, (the Almighty) but it does make Jesus a “holy servant” of his God and Father. (Acts 4:27)
If you simply give a scripture without knowledge of its context, it is pointless because the true meaning is lost. It’s why we need to study the Bible.
Good point....only word studies reveal that translations can sometime be sadly lacking and open to bias.el gibbor. Used in reference to the child in Isaiah 9:6; used in reference to other people in scripture, too. What does that tell us?
Okay............I am interested in Aunty Jane's beliefs about The Holy Spirit that's why I was asking her
The Holy Spirit is the administration of God’s enormous power. The power that created the Universe and that is administered in the right measure and in an appropriate way depending on the circumstances. It is not a conscious separate entity, which is reinforced by the fact that it has no name....and is often not mentioned in connection with the Father and the son. (e.g. John 17:3)What is The Holy Spirit in your beliefs?
Then both Paul and Apollos was one, same Spirit within them.
The holy spirit is fundamental to the "chosen ones" ("saints"...those with the "heavenly calling" Hebrews 3:1) because it is necessary for their transformation into spirit beings upon their resurrection. This is what being "born again" means.....a human is transformed upon their resurrection into a completely new body to facilitate existence in a completely different realm....one that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit. (1 Corinthians 15:50)@RLT63 It is by the Holy Spirit that believers have been born again, so He is fundamental to a believer's Christian experience.............
Yes to all except the last one which doesn't concern me in the slightest.
From my time in Israel in the 80's I learned that converts lost their jobs and the family held a funeral for them. So why should I be concerned what they think ? The ministry I was associated with had to pick up the pieces and give support to new Jewish believers.
Nothing is to heavy, its not a good example of the nature.The Holy Spirit is the administration of God’s enormous power. The power that created the Universe and that is administered in the right measure and in an appropriate way depending on the circumstances. It is not a conscious separate entity, which is reinforced by the fact that it has no name....and is often not mentioned in connection with the Father and the son. (e.g. John 17:3)
An example of the nature of God’s spirit was seen in connection with the situation that Moses found himself in when responsibility for the nation of Israel was squarely resting on his shoulders. He was now over 80 years of age and apparently not a good communicator, so God appointed his brother Aaron as his spokesman to Pharaoh.
When the load of carrying this rebellious people became too heavy, his father-in-law suggested delegating some of his responsibilities to others. This had God’s approval, so he told Moses to select 70 qualified men and then God took “some of the spirit” that was on Moses and apportioned it out among the 70. (Numbers 11:24-25) How can this be a person?
It is 'personified' in scripture, but then so are a lot of other things.
In the first century the Holy Spirit “filled” people and they were empowered to do supernatural things. They could heal the sick, raise the dead, speak in languages that they had never learned.....
This I believe shows us that the Holy Spirit is not what most people in Christendom have been led to believe.
Thanks for your answerThe Holy Spirit is the administration of God’s enormous power. The power that created the Universe and that is administered in the right measure and in an appropriate way depending on the circumstances. It is not a conscious separate entity, which is reinforced by the fact that it has no name....and is often not mentioned in connection with the Father and the son. (e.g. John 17:3)
An example of the nature of God’s spirit was seen in connection with the situation that Moses found himself in when responsibility for the nation of Israel was squarely resting on his shoulders. He was now over 80 years of age and apparently not a good communicator, so God appointed his brother Aaron as his spokesman to Pharaoh.
When the load of carrying this rebellious people became too heavy, his father-in-law suggested delegating some of his responsibilities to others. This had God’s approval, so he told Moses to select 70 qualified men and then God took “some of the spirit” that was on Moses and apportioned it out among the 70. (Numbers 11:24-25) How can this be a person?
It is 'personified' in scripture, but then so are a lot of other things.
In the first century the Holy Spirit “filled” people and they were empowered to do supernatural things. They could heal the sick, raise the dead, speak in languages that they had never learned.....
This I believe shows us that the Holy Spirit is not what most people in Christendom have been led to believe.