What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God
- Thread starter Peterlag
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
God. The origin of Jesus is in the womb of his mother.
Jesus.
P.S.
When will Jesus raise us up?
Last edited:
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The Spirit returns to God. This fact tells you the Spirit cannot be God since it returns to God.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I don't want to hijack this thread but I started a thread that dispells this claim regarding houtos means only 'this' (not he). Regarding Rev 3:14, 'the ruler of God's Creation' is just another way to say Jesus is not God. Some translations speak of being the originator of God's creation. I am satisfied that refers only to Jesus being the 1st resurrected into a glorified body. Claims it refers to Creation are specious, lacking OT foundation.
Even if it is unambiguous, that he is the 1st born of all creation (from the start) he is still a created being.
Is this true Aunty Jane?
Last edited:
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The contradictions must necessarily mount as one continues to apply this inherently contradictory doctrine.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yea, about that. It means he was not so filled before. This is a change and God is eternal.
I’m disappointed to hear you say that.
To be sent from above, to be sent from heaven, is to be sent from God.
He only has a one track mind.....and can't see past "I AM".....but he fails to understand what God's name is.....it was never a statement about his existence because his people already knew who the God of their forefathers was.....they just had to get to know him in the extension of what his name meant...not "I AM"....but "I Will Be What I Will Be"....it was a statement of his intentions towards his people and the revealing of the "seed" of Abraham.
But unfortunately the groove is so ingrained that there is no seeing past it. God never said "I AM" was his name.
Here it is from The Complete Jewish Bible....
"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:" (Exodus 3:13-15)
He has no excuse.....
I had to laugh when you penned...
If the Jews had no trinity, and the Christians had no trinity until it was officially declared by the Catholic church in the 4th century, don’t you have to wonder where it came from? If it was formulated by the same church that brought you "Mary Mother of God" and "immortality of the soul" and "purgatory and hellfire", don't you wonder just a little bit?
P.S. @Peterlag...
They brought you your sin nature too.
@Aunty Jane writes...
If the Jews had no trinity, and the Christians had no trinity until it was officially declared by the Catholic church in the 4th century, don’t you have to wonder where it came from? If it was formulated by the same church that brought you "Mary Mother of God" and "immortality of the soul" and "purgatory and hellfire", don't you wonder just a little bit?
P.S. @Peterlag...
They brought you your sin nature too.
If the Jews had no trinity, and the Christians had no trinity until it was officially declared by the Catholic church in the 4th century, don’t you have to wonder where it came from? If it was formulated by the same church that brought you "Mary Mother of God" and "immortality of the soul" and "purgatory and hellfire", don't you wonder just a little bit?
P.S. @Peterlag...
They brought you your sin nature too.
More great data from @Aunity Jane...
He never said "I am God", because Jesus never once called himself YHWH.....God has only one name (Psalm 83:18)....
Jesus has many names, but the holy spirit has no name at all.
Jesus never claimed equality with his God and Father.
Jesus as "the Word" (Logos) is one who speaks for God....a spokesman.....not a god/man.
Creation came "through" the son...not "from" him. He is the agency "through" whom God created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)
He never said "I am God", because Jesus never once called himself YHWH.....God has only one name (Psalm 83:18)....
Jesus has many names, but the holy spirit has no name at all.
Jesus never claimed equality with his God and Father.
Jesus as "the Word" (Logos) is one who speaks for God....a spokesman.....not a god/man.
Creation came "through" the son...not "from" him. He is the agency "through" whom God created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Excellent topic - for another thread. You are so off this thread's topic as to be comical.
This thread is about 'What benefit does to make Jesus God' and all you can do is argue that he is God. What benefit is there in Scripture for holding this belief?
Great stuff from @Aunty Jane...
According to my studies, God never said "I Am" was his name in Exodus 3:14.
At Exodus 3:14-15, when Moses asked God for his name, from the Jewish Tanakh it reads....
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר" (The Complete Jewish Bible)
Yahweh does not only mean "I AM" in John 8:58 because it has no connection whatsoever with Exodus 3 14-15.
Strongs renders "I Am" in John 8:58 as..."to be, to exist, to happen, to be present". So which is the correct rendering of that verse?
Strongs also says of εἰμί eimí; "the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was." So not just one meaning.
God's name was not a statement about his existence because he was the God of their forefathers, so they knew who he was.
His name means "I will be what I will be" and it was a statement about his intentions towards his people, once freed from Egyptian slavery.
"The Lord God is "יְהֹוָ֞ה"....Yahweh. This was a name that was to be held in reverence for all their generations, but they chose to refrain from uttering it. They never had God's sanction or command to do that.
So in answering a question about the past, Jesus answered in the past tense....."Before Abraham was born, I have been" or "I was".
This is a scripturally bogus argument I'm afraid.
According to my studies, God never said "I Am" was his name in Exodus 3:14.
At Exodus 3:14-15, when Moses asked God for his name, from the Jewish Tanakh it reads....
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר" (The Complete Jewish Bible)
Yahweh does not only mean "I AM" in John 8:58 because it has no connection whatsoever with Exodus 3 14-15.
Strongs renders "I Am" in John 8:58 as..."to be, to exist, to happen, to be present". So which is the correct rendering of that verse?
Strongs also says of εἰμί eimí; "the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, × it is I, was." So not just one meaning.
God's name was not a statement about his existence because he was the God of their forefathers, so they knew who he was.
His name means "I will be what I will be" and it was a statement about his intentions towards his people, once freed from Egyptian slavery.
"The Lord God is "יְהֹוָ֞ה"....Yahweh. This was a name that was to be held in reverence for all their generations, but they chose to refrain from uttering it. They never had God's sanction or command to do that.
So in answering a question about the past, Jesus answered in the past tense....."Before Abraham was born, I have been" or "I was".
This is a scripturally bogus argument I'm afraid.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
RLT63
Well-Known Member
All gifts that are, including Jesus.
I received a perfect gift from my parents when I graduated. Chevrolets weren’t raining down from the sky.
The concept of equality you have has no rejection criteria. It's just asserted and then apply circular reasoning to scenario's that obliterate the claim.
There is no person 'Holy Spirit.' Three attributes of god is that he is masculine, spirit and holy. These atttributes are pretty unequal to a distinct Being who is a person, who has a personal name AND was given all authority by the god who has these attributes.
What you claim is akin to saying that you are equal to my Big Smile. My Big Smile is subordinate to me but we both exist. Being subordinate does not make my Big Smile any less me ... Huh? Yes it sure does. An attribute of a Being is less than the Being the attribute is attributed to.
They had to get rid of the Christ and they could not drag him down so they pushed him up and made him God. They also had to get rid of the spirit of Christ. So they made the spirit God too which is why there is no person "holy spirit."
- Status
Similar threads
