Everyone is in on the Action

[Mantis]

There is enough evidence in scripture for both views to be true. Therefore I don’t take a stand on the rapture. Who knows.

But I do believe that God will protect his people through the tribulation be it through a rapture or some kind of protection, like Noah’s Arc.

 

[GISMYS_7]

But Noah was not removed from the flood. He had to go through it.
Why would not Jesus keep His people safe through the Tribulation.
If God found a way for Noah to get through the flood, don't you think Jesus could do the same?

LOL!! You "think" there was a flood inside the ark????

 

[David Boyer]

LOL!! You "think" there was a flood inside the ark????

Do you think the flood had no impact on the ark?

 

[GISMYS_7]

But Noah was not removed from the flood. He had to go through it.
Why would not Jesus keep His people safe through the Tribulation.
If God found a way for Noah to get through the flood, don't you think Jesus could do the same?

Think!! Noah and his family were safe inside the ark no swimming needed!! LOL! We born-again believers will be caught up to be with Jesus while the great tribulation is on earth and after the tribulation years we will return with Jesus when Jesus sits His foot down on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem!!!PTL

 

[David Boyer]

Think!! Noah and his family were safe inside the ark no swimming needed!! LOL! We born-again believers will be caught up to be with Jesus while the great tribulation is on earth and after the tribulation years we will return with Jesus when Jesus sits His foot down on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem!!!PTL

Noah was seasick the whole time. Oh was that not in the Bible. Same as pre-trib.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Noah was seasick the whole time. Oh was that not in the Bible. Same as pre-trib.

Feel free to pray that you be left behind but know you will need to try to live under anti-Christ rule wile billions die!!!===All your choice!

 

[David Boyer]

Feel free to pray that you be left behind but know you will need to try to live under anti-Christ rule wile billions die!!!===All your choice!

So the Rapture is a choice. Fascinating.

 

[GISMYS_7]

So the Rapture is a choice. Fascinating.

Yes!!! Those that reject the rapture will not be caught up!!!

Try to have fun==For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.
Matthew 24:21

 

[David Boyer]

Yes!!! Those that reject the rapture will not be caught up!!!

Try to have fun==For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.
Matthew 24:21

Where is THAT in the Bible????

 

[GISMYS_7]

Where is THAT in the Bible????

Must I tell you everything????
Hebrews 9:28 tells us who Jesus will return for== To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time

 

[David Boyer]

Must I tell you everything????
Hebrews 9:28 tells us who Jesus will return for== To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time

No Rapture mentioned in that verse. So not a proof verse that the Rapture is voluntary.

 

[Keraz]

Yes!!! Those that reject the rapture will not be caught up!!!

This assertion by the deceived 'rapture to heaven' believers, is a serious indictment against them. They are judging their fellow Christians. James 4:11-12
There is no scripture which says the Lord will take His people to heaven. There are quite a few that say He won't. John 3:13, +

 

[GISMYS_7]

This assertion by the deceived 'rapture to heaven' believers, is a serious indictment against them. They are judging their fellow Christians. James 4:11-12
There is no scripture which says the Lord will take His people to heaven. There are quite a few that say He won't. John 3:13, +

Who does this scripture tell you Jesus will return for????=== Hebrews 9:28 To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time.===== those that reject will be left behind!!!

 

[ScottA]

@David Boyer

We born-again believers will escape(be raptured) before the years of wrath (great tribulation) 1 Thessalonians 5:9
Luke 21:36 NKJV Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass

What thinking person would think God would have His family (church) try to live through the worst judgments ever or ever will be on earth???

WRONG!!!
For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.
Matthew 24:21

Sorry, this is all moving fast and I am just catching up.

This subject is very much debated because of confusion regarding the language (which God himself confused).

It is true that we who are born again "escape"...but what is meant by the word "escape?" I submit to you that the word is fulfilled by the fact that we are "saved"...which does not require transport out of the world.

No "thinking person thinks that God would have His family (church) try to live through the worst judgments ever or ever will be on earth." Nor that "there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again." But again, I submit to you that all these things were fulfilled when the Father sent His only Son to take it [all] upon Himself, and "It is finished."

 

[GISMYS_7]

Pray you don't see these very soon days==For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.
Matthew 24:21

 

[Nancy]

There is enough evidence in scripture for both views to be true. Therefore I don’t take a stand on the rapture. Who knows.

But I do believe that God will protect his people through the tribulation be it through a rapture or some kind of protection, like Noah’s Arc.

Agreed brother. We need to err on the side of caution as pre trib can and does cause Christians to sit back on their laurels believing, oh, nothing bad will happen to me cause I'm going to be pulled right out of it! So, less likely that person is building their strength and faith in The Lord to keep us from...not the tribulation so much as His wrath-which will be MUCH worse (IMO) than satan's persecution.

 

[jeffweeder]

Read in context and learn===We born-again believers will escape(be raptured) before the years of wrath (great tribulation) 1 Thessalonians 5:9

You are misunderstanding this IMHO.

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord].

4 But you, believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We do not belong to the night nor to darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep [in spiritual indifference] as the rest [of the world does], but let us keep wide awake [alert and cautious] and let us be sober [self-controlled, calm, and wise]. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we [believers] belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope and confident assurance of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us to [incur His] wrath [that is, He did not select us to condemn us], but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died [willingly] for us, so that whether we are awake (alive) or asleep (dead) [at Christ’s appearing], we will live together with Him [sharing eternal life]. 11 Therefore encourage and comfort one another and build up one another, just as you are doing.



The bolded red in verse 4 implies that we are still on the planet when wrath (judgment) occurs, but that day doesnt overtake us because we are wide awake.

That day can only overtake you like a thief if you are still on the planet at the time.
Gods' wrath is the day of Judgment after the tribulation. Jesus said it would be after the GT that he would come..


21 For at that time there will be a great tribulation (pressure, distress, oppression), such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will [again]. 22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you [during the great tribulation], ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and they will provide great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones). 25 Listen carefully, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out there, or, ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms [of a house],’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming [in glory] of the Son of Man [everyone will see Him clearly]. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will flock together.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not provide its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And at that time the sign of the Son of Man [coming in His glory] will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [and especially Israel] will mourn [regretting their rebellion and rejection of the Messiah], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliance and splendor]. 31 And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet and they will gather together His elect (God’s chosen ones) from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.



Jude also shows us still being here when judgment comes , note the bolded text..,


“Look, the Lord came with myriads of His holy ones 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly deeds they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh and cruel things ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” 16 These people are [habitual] murmurers, griping and complaining, following after their own desires [controlled by passion]; they speak arrogantly, [pretending admiration and] flattering people to gain an advantage.

17 But as for you, beloved, remember the [prophetic] words spoken by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They used to say to you, “In the last days there will be scoffers, following after their own ungodly passions.” 19 These are the ones who are [agitators] causing divisions—worldly-minded [secular, unspiritual, carnal, merely sensual—unsaved], devoid of the Spirit.

20 But you, beloved, build yourselves up on [the foundation of] your most holy faith [continually progress, rise like an edifice higher and higher], pray in the Holy Spirit, 21 and keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously and looking forward to the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ [which will bring you] to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight, 25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You are looking in the wrong place to see prophecy fulfilled. Paul in Thessalonians says specifically, the temple of God. No counterfeit Jewish temple in the NT era can be of God. Paul isn't referring to a physical temple in Jerusalem when he said the man of sin would sit in it. Paul is referring to the church. To find the Antichrist, you need to look among God's professing people.
Nor should you look for just one man. One man at the head certainly... The mystery of iniquity is a system that has thus far lasted nearly 2000 years, headed by a succession of men. Babylon the Great is a modern pagan system of a union of church and state, that professes to have the truth, that professes the name of Jesus even, but it's a counterfeit deception. It's a beast ridden by a woman. The beast in that final context is the state. The woman is an apostate church. An apostate Christian church. The final battle, Armageddon, isn't between china and Russia... Russia and NATO or Israel or America.

That's not to say those things may not happen. There likely will be more wars. There may be a temple built. But they aren't what the prophecies are about. The final battle will be the same as the first. Between brothers. Like it was in heaven. Between apostate angels and faithful. Like it was between Abel and Cain. And the issues aren't over Global finance and governance and digital Currency... Those will be merely incentives. Do as you are told and we won't switch you off. The capability is there. The governments know who you are. Where you are. The church you belong to. You can't hide. Remember, Satan is the prince of this world. The beasts are in reality his babies, manifestations of his hatred for Christ, and his vehicles for destroying His people. The final issue is over worship and whose authority you surrender to. We will be hated of all nations for His name's sake. All nations. It isn't about Israel. It's about you and me and the other members here. Who's our true Lord? That question will be asked of all of us. Under duress. We need to prepare to answer that now. Tomorrow may be to late. And there's no rapture to hope in. We're here for the duration.

I don't know how many times I have to say this....in Israel, Judaism is the main religion that is followed by most Jews. Judaism does not, has not, and will not accept Jesus as the Messiah. They are still waiting for this prophesy to be fulfilled.
An excerpt from an article The Jewish Concept of Messiah and the Jewish Response to Christian Claims

one as The Messiah. The above is the only description in the Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in the future. We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection.The Bible never speaks about believing in the Messiah. Because his reign will be an historically verifiable reality, self-evident to any person, it won’t require belief or faith.Because no person has ever fulfilled the picture painted in the Bible of this future King, Jewish people still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Therefore, according to Jewish Law and Prophesy about the Messiah they have to REBUILD THE TEMPLE!!!

 

[covenantee]

Therefore, according to Jewish Law and Prophesy about the Messiah they have to REBUILD THE TEMPLE!!!

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.

 

[Brakelite]

And yet the red heifers are coming into Israel, while elaborate preparations have been made to set up the third temple in Jerusalem. So trying to deny reality is always a mistake. According to Christ Himself, there must be a third temple in Jerusalem in order for the Abomination of Desolation to be set up in "the Holy Place".

When ye therefore shall see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place, (whoso readeth, let him understand), Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (Mt 24:15,16).

There is only one "holy place" mentioned in the Bible, and that is within the temple at Jerusalem. Since there is no temple there at present, it shall be built to fulfil prophecy. Not "of God" but "permitted by God".

When Jesus said "whoso readeth let him understand" he already anticipated naysayers such as yourself. Just like it was unimaginable until 1948 that there would actually be a nation-state of Israel in Palestine, it is unimaginable to many that there will actually be a temple in Jerusalem in the near future.

What makes something holy? The temple was holy because of the presence of God. When the glory left, the building became desolate. Jesus left the temple for the last time a few days before His death, declaring to the Jews, your house (no longer God's) is left into you desolate. The church, the true church having Christ abiding within, is now the holy place. It ceases to be holy when it apostatizes, as the holy Spirit is grieved and leaves, becoming desolate. When the abomination of desolation, which in Jesus' day were the idolatrous standards of pagan Rome being planted within the confines of Jerusalem, but in our day is the presence of papal Roman standards being hoisted and welcomed without challenge in the church, then does the abomination of desolation void the church of it's sanctity. Those who continue the protest, who sigh and cry for the shininess being done in the church, spiritual Israel, are the remnant who have the testimony of Jesus and keep His commandments. They remain holy through the presence of the holy Spirit in their midst. A physical temple in the future is superfluous to requirements. It will not belong to God. It will not be holy. It will not be a fulfillment of prophecy.