What is the High Calling in Christ?

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Marilyn C

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1. Zion is meant to walk in right now. The downgrading of Christianity to just a world religion has seen the fall of the saints...looking only towards a "Valhalla" type of afterlife. Paganism has mixed into the gospel and affected how we read the bible. An afterlife is NOT the victory over the devil that Jesus won at His death and resurrection. Only the Bride of Christ will overcome as Jesus did in this life.

2. Zion (New Jerusalem) will come down to earth in the next age and God Himself will dwell with His people. Being before the throne of God is not the same as being on the throne. The third heaven is meant for petitions not residence. We are the house of God...but His throne-room is exclusive to Him. We abide in Zion as we abide in Christ. From there there is victory over sin, the devil and the world.

Hi Episkopos,

Now where does it say in God`s word - (or words to that affect)

1. Zion is meant to walk right now?
2. The Bride of Christ?
3. The NJ is Zion?
4. The NJ comes to earth?
5. That God will be dwell (physically) on the earth?

Marilyn.
 

Lizbeth

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Hi Episkopos,

Now where does it say in God`s word - (or words to that affect)

1. Zion is meant to walk right now?
2. The Bride of Christ?
3. The NJ is Zion?
4. The NJ comes to earth?
5. That God will be dwell (physically) on the earth?

Marilyn.
Enjoying this conversation. Here's what I see in scripture about some of these things. Jesus and the apostles were preaching not just a gospel of salvation but the gospel of "the kingdom". We are to enter the kingdom of God/heaven and walk in it. Remember Jesus telling the religious leaders that sinners were entering the kingdom ahead of them...and that they refused to enter the kingdom while hindering those who were seeking to enter it. The kingdom doesn't come with our careful observation but is within/among us. His kingdom comes to earth in the born again believers who walk in it and are submitted to His rule. The kingdom is heavenly Zion.....scripture speaks of those who are born again having been "born in Zion"...Zion is our mother, the heavenly city, New Jerusalem...spiritual Zion, heavenly Zion coming down to earth prepared as a Bride. We are to be preparing ourselves as a Bride, purification and adornment, consecration......holiness and wholly set apart for the king. "Earth" in scripture is sometimes symbolic of our earth, our physical body/temple where God in Christ dwells and rules by His Spirit. It was once geographical Zion/Jerusalem where He dwelt and ruled from but the new covenant ushered in the spiritual reality and ended the old type/shadow. Walking in Zion, the kingdom of God, while in the body. That is the true sabbath rest that remains for the people of God. The church at large has been putting off for the future, things that are ours for the having and walking in in the present.

Song of Solomon speaks about the Bride being few in number....only one.....the only one of her "mother", only one wins the race, while there are numerous virgins and concubines who serve the king but are not in the state of being wife/bride of Him. Like Esther too, many are called but few are chosen.
 

marks

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Hi Episkopos,

Now where does it say in God`s word - (or words to that affect)

1. Zion is meant to walk right now?
2. The Bride of Christ?
3. The NJ is Zion?
4. The NJ comes to earth?
5. That God will be dwell (physically) on the earth?

Marilyn.
These are good questions worthy of answers.

Much love!
 

Lizbeth

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Couple of scriptures about Zion:

Psa 87:5

And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

Isa 66:8

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
 

marks

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Psalms 87:1-7 KJV
1) A Psalm or Song for the sons of Korah. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2) The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3) Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.
4) I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
5) And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
6) The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
7) As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

Shall establish Zion . . .

Heavenly Zion or Earthly Zion?

Isaiah 66:5-13 KJV
5) Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6) A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7) Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8) Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9) Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10) Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11) That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12) For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13) As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I am certain we can all find places and passages were a few words here, a few words there, can reflect in their wordings some doctrine or idea we hold. But that is not the same as the Bible teaching such things.

Much love!
 
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Lizbeth

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Psalms 87:1-7 KJV
1) A Psalm or Song for the sons of Korah. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2) The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3) Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.
4) I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
5) And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
6) The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
7) As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

Shall establish Zion . . .

Heavenly Zion or Earthly Zion?

Isaiah 66:5-13 KJV
5) Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6) A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7) Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
8) Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9) Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
10) Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
11) That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12) For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13) As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Much love!
These are prophecies foretelling the coming gospel of Christ/Messiah. God establishing Christ's kingdom. Earthly Jerusalem "gave birth" to her children before she travailed, ie, before she was judged in 70 AD. Ie, she gave birth to Jesus and the gospel was preached and the first souls were saved in Israel before Jerusalem and Temple were destroyed and Israel was taken captive and dispersed. Jerusalem/Israel died in childbirth, as it were. (Also foreshadowed by Rachel dying in childbirth.)
 

marks

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These are prophecies foretelling the coming gospel of Christ/Messiah. God establishing Christ's kingdom. Earthly Jerusalem "gave birth" to her children before she travailed, ie, before she was judged in 70 AD. Ie, she gave birth to Jesus and the gospel was preached and the first souls were saved in Israel before Jerusalem and Temple were destroyed and Israel was taken captive and dispersed. Jerusalem/Israel died in childbirth, as it were. (Also foreshadowed by Rachel dying in childbirth.)
Hadn't you been speaking being born again in celestial Zion? Perhaps I misunderstood.

Much love!
 

Lizbeth

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These are prophecies foretelling the coming gospel of Christ/Messiah. God establishing Christ's kingdom. Earthly Jerusalem "gave birth" to her children before she travailed, ie, before she was judged in 70 AD. Ie, she gave birth to Jesus and the gospel was preached and the first souls were saved in Israel before Jerusalem and Temple were destroyed and Israel was taken captive and dispersed. Jerusalem/Israel died in childbirth, as it were. (Also foreshadowed by Rachel dying in childbirth.)
Psalms 87:1-7 KJV
1) A Psalm or Song for the sons of Korah. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2) The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3) Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.
4) I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.
5) And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
6) The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
7) As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

The born-again are born of heavenly Zion....they are written up in the book of life....all our springs, our life source, are in heavenly Zion.


Shall establish Zion . . . Yes, speaking of God establishing His church/body/heavenly city/kingdom, once the messiah comes.

Heavenly Zion or Earthly Zion? Speaking of both in the passage below. Biblical principle of first the physical, then the natural. Physical Jerusalem/Zion is a type/shadow of the heavenly/spiritual city.



Isaiah 66:5-13 KJV
5) Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
6) A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
7) Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

This part above is prophesying of when Israel/Jersusalem would persecute Jesus and the newly born church/saints and of God then judging her (which happened in 70AD).


8) Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
9) Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Jesus was physically born of the Jews, and under the Law....so physical Jerusalem....but spiritually was sent from heaven (2nd Adam is the Lord from heaven), the first-born of many brethren....all of us who are born again are born from heavenly Zion, not physical Jerusalem as such. The mostly Gentile church is the nation bearing the fruits of the gospel, when Israel/Jerusalem mostly rejected it.

10) Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her: Rejoicing in heavenly Zion and salvation, but mourning for physical Zion in her destruction.
11) That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
12) For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13) As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

Milking out of city that is above who is our mother...because all our springs are in heavenly Zion, our life source of the Spirit and true doctrine. Speaking of the glory of heavenly Zion and being comforted and consoled by her, ie, by the Holy Spirit. It is not a literal geographical place but is metaphorically speaking of the heavenly realm, the kingdom of God, where our true citizenship is, being not of this world even though in it. The kingdom that is here within/among us even while we walk the earth. A heavenly spiritual realm/city.

Much love!
 

marks

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Your post doesn't appear in the quote because of how you wrote it . . .

It seems then that your saying that we are reborn in Zion, it's like your way of saying "born from above". Is that the right idea?

Much love!
 
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Lizbeth

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Your post doesn't appear in the quote because of how you wrote it . . .

It seems then that your saying that we are reborn in Zion, it's like your way of saying "born from above". Is that the right idea?

Much love!

I'm sorry I messed up the post somehow, hope you can see what I wrote in blue letters once you "click to expand". Yes, absolutely...we are born from above....the city that is above is our mother. New Jerusalem/heavenly Zion.
 

stunnedbygrace

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No Offence, (Not trying to pick a debate) but you probably would have been one of the ones chopping heads off of prophets with this attitude.... Sometimes God uses people like this to show the church when it falls into hypocrisy or carnality or complacency, and it is unwise to ignore someone God has sent to warn the church. Dismissing these messages is detrimental. Like praying the prayer of the pharisee instead of the publican. (Luke 18:9-14)


My thought was - is this Miriam or Aaron…?
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Yep, another "The Church is a Failure". I don't buy into that myself.

If I were to declare you faulty, well, maybe that's just my opinion, but what I see a lot of is that it's not an opinion, it's a self-affirmation. Without exception the lesser is blessed by the greater. And the one who gives their judgment of another sits themself above that other as their judge. And enjoys that high opinion of themself.

I've seen that those with overly high opinions of them self tend to be the quickest to declare others wrong, carnal, presumptuous, whatever, and as in so many cases, what they say of others is actually true of them selves.

It's sad, it's harmful, and it clutters up good threads.

Much love!

Thats a pretty neat trick…doing something and then claiming someone else did it. Very clever.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I dont' know the answer to that question, but that was great preaching by David Wilkerson on that video....the church needs more of that!

Oh! I didn’t see a video…I was answering what David wrote, which I agreed with. I was saying my first thought upon reading the quoted post by marks was - is that Miriam speaking or Aaron? Because it gave me the distinct impression that marks had the attitude of: has God only spoken to episkopos? Hasn’t He also spoken to me? It comes across as…jealousy. And as not listening to a man God has given something to for our good.
 
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marks

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Because it gave me the distinct impression that marks had the attitude of: has God only spoken to episkopos? Hasn’t He also spoken to me? It comes across as…jealousy. And as not listening to a man God has given something to for our good.
This is from your own projection.

My contention is that some do not speak rightly, in that the Bible speaks differently. If you want to make that into something its not, that's you doing it. If you want to make that gossipy about me, that's also on you.

And these things - your words - reveal what is in you.

It's been said, that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yells is the one who was hit. There is wisdom in this saying.

Characterizing me a somewho who kills God's prophets, I think, speaks for itself.

But who is able to hear? Who is able to see themself?

Much love!
 
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marks

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@Episkopos
I think what is needed is to show this in a Scriptural way. Your use of "Zion" is not how many people think of and speak of Zion.

If you mean this as a description of living a spiritual life, you can show that. If you mean this as a description of interacting in the celestial realm, you can show that. Or to clarify what you mean by "walking in Zion", and show this in the Bible.

Scripturally, if we are reborn, we are in Christ now. This is very plainly stated in the Bible, Romans 6 for one example. Do you disagree with that?

Much love!

?
 

marks

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@Episkopos
Corporately/Personally?

We are each baptized personally into Christ.

Romans 6:3-7 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Actually this passage does not in fact say they are rejected, it tells us they were lifted away, like, picked up and carried away.



How does that happen exactly?

What I find in the Bible is teaching of our minds being renewed, so that we stop thinking, and therefore feeling and acting in fleshy ways, and being to think/feel/act in spiritual ways. We can do this because we've already been recreated, only, we need to become trained/practiced to deny fleshy things and ways in favor to the new spiritual ways, Christ's ways.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What is it exactly that we are waiting for?

Much love!

There were a few questions I had asked, perhaps you had missed them, I'm interested in your answers, should you be so inclined.

Much love!
 

marks

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I'm interested in anyone's answer to these questions,

How does it happen that we are baptized into Christ?

How does it happen that we walk in the Spirit?

Much love!