"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[theefaith]

No...I was not referring to what you wrote in the post--but to the fact that you wrote your response to what I said within your quote of what I said...as if I said both my comment and your answer. Which I did not.

As for what you just said in this above post-- It's mostly religious nonsense and errors, perpetrated by the church fathers.

and the promise of Christ Matt 16:18-19
The guarantee of the HS to the apostles Jn 16:13???

 

[ScottA]

and the promise of Christ Matt 16:18-19
The guarantee of the HS to the apostles Jn 16:13???

Nope... Post #1785

 

[Taken]

The scriptures you posted below are for ALL born again believers, regardless of denomination.

Yes I know.
Key word, BORN AGAIN.
Key notice, Belief WITHOUT heartful CONFESSION, is NOT:
Born Again.

The contrast between the regenerated and the unregenerated person regarding constant or habitual sinning is clearly seen in 1 John 3:9.

Man made FALLACY.
1 John 3:9 has NOTHING to do with, unconverted believers.
1 John 3:9 has NOTHING to do with, habitual sinning, sometime sinning, trying not to sin.
1 John 3:9 is EXPRESSLY applicable to Converted believers, who CAN NOT SIN.

Do you understand...CAN NOT?
CAN NOT, is not telling you TRY really hard not to sin.
CAN NOT SIN, is informing a man born of Gods SEED, committing SIN......IS NOT A POSSIBILITY!

The believer, we learn, does not have the sin habit. Neither do the redeemed defiantly continue in sin.

Nonsense. We learn no such thing.
Believers are simply people who believe God exists, Jesus is the Christ....some in their hearts are believing....some in their minds believing...and a MAJORITY, WHO go to church, do so, for all kinds of reasons that HAVE nothing to do with Worshiping God...social hour, fashion show off, flirting, made to go, out to eat plans, business contacts, even being dipped in water, to please others...and when NOT in church, regularly think it okay to lie, cheat, steal, plot underhanded agendas, abuse people, abuse drugs and alcohol.
Very FEW are heart-ful believers and fewer yet who have Become Converted according to Gods Order and Way.

However, the OSAS people admit to continual sin, claiming they are always saved.

That’s their journey, not mine, nor have I ever said such.

I notice you say you are washed in the blood of the Lamb. That does not compute with 1 John 3.

Washed in Jesus’ Blood, IS NOT MY WORKS. It is specifically “part” of Gods Works in preparing a man FOR Conversion of Salvation of becoming made born again.

Those who admit to continual sinning cannot be among the redeemed, because as 1 John 3:9 reminds us, "Whoever is born of God cannot sin.

I have never said otherwise.

Pride within the ranks of the OSAS community may be the stumbling block, as it is with all self-righteous people.

Seems a bit contradictory or supposing on your part.
I think a man who says, he was Saved Once and Forever by the Offering and Works of God, is stating a fact that applies to him, regardless of what others choose to believe or do.
...thinking that is a ‘prideful’ claim is as silly to me...
...as one saying, Jesus was prideful for claiming things that applied to Him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 KJV) (OSAS people need to examine themselves.)
.

Why should a person who has become saved and converted examine themselves?
What is the point of that...but to challenge Gods Works IN THEM? Why would they DO THAT?

 

[ScottA]

However, the OSAS people admit to continual sin, claiming they are always saved.

This of course is a greatly controversial topic and there is much confusion--obviously.

But instead of saying that "OSAS people admit to continual sin, etc." I would say that it is just part of the confusion...that most OSAS people are even inclined to feel that they could be wrong for the same reasons that the Non-OSAS group does. But then they read the scriptures again and don't want to deny that portion that says if we are saved they/we "do not sin." They don't quite understand it--but "the spirit is willing." For this reason--these are in fact the most faithful!

As for what is correct--No, a saved person is born of God--and God does not sin.

As for continued sin...a person born of God has entered eternity. But during these unique last times, God has chosen some to be alive in the spirit while they remain for a while in their dead and sinful body. God can do that--and He has. This is a unique thing. But it is a mistake to say they are not saved if they are, or that it is not forever when it is. Whoever does this, "does it to Him"--because He is "in them, and they in Him." Which Jesus warned of.

 

[Taken]

This of course is a greatly controversial topic and there is much confusion--obviously.

But instead of saying that "OSAS people admit to continual sin, etc." I would say that it is just part of the confusion...that most OSAS people are even inclined to feel that they could be wrong for the same reasons that the Non-OSAS group does. But then they read the scriptures again and don't want to deny that portion that says if we are saved they/we "do not sin." They don't quite understand it--but "the spirit is willing." For this reason--these are in fact the most faithful!

As for what is correct--No, a saved person is born of God--and God does not sin.

As for continued sin...a person born of God has entered eternity. But during these unique last times, God has chosen some to be alive in the spirit while they remain for a while in their dead and sinful body. God can do that--and He has. This is a unique thing. But it is a mistake to say they are not saved if they are, or that it is not forever when it is. Whoever does this, "does it to Him"--because He is "in them, and they in Him." Which Jesus warned of.

Agree!

The confusion is compounded, over what SIN IS.
SIN is violation of the Mosaic Law. (Not obeying the Law)
.... Not applicable to Gentiles.
.... Not applicable to ISRAEL no longer Under the Law.
.... IS applicable to ISRAEL who elect to remain Under the Law.

SIN is unbelief in the Lord God Almighty... (Standing Against God)
... IS applicable to every NON-believer.
... IS applicable to every believer, who waivers, belief, doubt, etc.
... NOT applicable to every Forgiven, Saved, Born-Again, Converted man.

A Converted man CAN NOT EVER “AGAIN”, not believe, doubt, deny, wonder, ie STAND AGAINST GOD.

A Converted man WAS MADE CONVERTED, by, through, of Gods Power, and thereafter Gods Power DWELLS IN that man, and KEEPS that man
in Standing WITH God.....FOR EVER.

No Power IS greater, that can pry, trick, force, take, make that man EVER AGAIN, Stand Against God.

Yes...ISRAEL (Tribesmen, all in this day calling themselves JEWS), who elect to remain under Mosaic Law, absolutely According to the LAW, can sin, commit sin, against God.......and Fellow Tribesmen.

No...Gentiles NOT UNDER the Law, Can not, Do not commit SIN Against fellow Gentiles or Jews.
Precisely BECAUSE there is NO LAW, that calls a Gentile mans behavior TOWARD other men, ‘a SIN”.
Men’s behaviors toward ANY other man is called PRECEPTS.
Precepts that God “approves” is called “good, acceptable, beneficial”.
Precepts that God “disapproves” is called “trespasses” Against an other.

Scripture expressly teaches for men to forgive men of Trespasses.

Yet through centuries of teaching (and I will accredit the denomination that takes the credit for the longest standing Gentile Religion, ie Catholics)....for teaching such corruption....from BEFORE men could read, BEFORE men had access to Scriptural writings, WHEN men only learned by Hearing......and continued to this day, teaching men sin against men....and men with such teaching, having no hesitation of repetitively Asking a Priest to ask God to forgive them of their SIN...
And also have no hesitation of finger pointing and claiming other men have sinned AGAINST THEM!

As far as a GENTILE (or Jew), that has elected to become made by Gods Power...Converted. TWO COMMANDS are given them concerning LOVING God, and Other men.
AND Again, Gods POWER dwells IN that man to ACCOMPLISH Gods TWO Commands.

When a man FREELY, HEARTFULLY, chooses to exercise his FREEWILL to Submit unto God......God is receiving the WHOLE FREELY given, CONTROL over that man...body, soul, spirit...

Men are warned...BE SURE OF YOUR CHOICE....it’s For ever.

(It’s not like making a marriage promise vow between persons...
It’s not like making a promise to repay a loan...
And wiggle out of such things....)
Those are simply things for men to PRACTICE doing...and if they FAIL, the consequences they suffer, until they figure out Promises / Vows are serious business... God does not play those games. Yes is Yes, No is No.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[theefaith]

She is the violation of God’s eternal moral law!

 

[robert derrick]

By definition salvation (being the gift of eternal life), is forever.

So says the one who never quotes Scripture saying so.

The definition being his own.

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus, which is not our own, but His.

Which is why are own faith saves no man.

People can define by their own faith all they want, but only God's faith in His Son saves the soul by grace.

 

[theefaith]

By definition salvation (being the gift of eternal life), is forever.

So says the one who never quotes Scripture saying so.

The definition being his own.

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus, which is not our own, but His.

Which is why are own faith saves no man.

People can define by their own faith all they want, but only God's faith in His Son saves the soul by grace.

then what is an apostate?

eternal life is grace the life of God that we partake of and share in by the sacraments of the church

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[ScottA]

By definition salvation (being the gift of eternal life), is forever.

So says the one who never quotes Scripture saying so.

The definition being his own.

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus, which is not our own, but His.

Which is why are own faith saves no man.

People can define by their own faith all they want, but only God's faith in His Son saves the soul by grace.

Did Jesus quote scripture giving chapter and verse or raising up his hands and gesturing with his fingers? Did Peter? Did Paul?

No, but you make it clear that even though much of what I write is scripture--you do not know it or recognize it, because you do not hear His voice. You give yourself away.

 

[Marymog]

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16
​

There is no water mentioned here. Do you not get that?

Do you not understand that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not with water?

Hmmmm.....so if water is not mentioned in the same sentence as baptized then that means water is not necessary for baptism? Fascinating.....Why are you are looking at the scriptures through the lens of the Protestant men's teaching who taught you that?

 

[Marymog]

but your church does not teach baptism of any kind is where a persons sin debt is paid and he is saved forever.

The Church does not teach that because SCRIPTURE does not teach that we are "saved forever". Who taught you that we are saved forever after baptism?

 

[ScottA]

Hmmmm.....so if water is not mentioned in the same sentence as baptized then that means water is not necessary for baptism? Fascinating.....Why are you are looking at the scriptures through the lens of the Protestant men's teaching who taught you that?

If you knew who it was that taught me, you would not ask.

 

[Behold]

Hmmmm.....so if water is not mentioned in the same sentence as baptized then that means water is not necessary for baptism? Fascinating.....Why are you are looking at the scriptures through the lens of the Protestant men's teaching who taught you that?

He is making the distinction between water baptism that gets you wet, and Spiritual Baptism that is the Holy Spirit birthing the spirit in a believer as BORN AGAIN...., because they have believed.
After they do, they should be water baptized, as you find everyone in the New Testament being water baptized after they believe.

God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.
Just ask the dying Thief on the Cross.

 

[robert derrick]

then what is an apostate?

eternal life is grace the life of God that we partake of and share in by the sacraments of the church

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Any sacraments made by any church, other than water baptism and wine and bread communion, are inventions.

Water baptism and communion are confirmations of good standing for fellowship in the churches of God.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Our personal cleansing however is between us and the Spirit of Christ alone. If with water baptism or communion we do commit ourselves in singleness of heart and soul to Christ, to live clean and well-pleasing to Him, then that is good, but not necessary, because we are commanded to do it now, whenever and wherever now is, not waiting until later. And of course if the heart is not committed, while the ceremony is conducted, then it has only superficial affect among men.

An apostate is anyone turning back to the works of the flesh with full will, and having no desire to be forgiven and cleansed by God. They will begin to mock God openly in word and deed, rather than praise Him with the spirit and body.

 

[Grailhunter]

He is making the distinction between water baptism that gets you wet, and Spiritual Baptism that is the Holy Spirit birthing the spirit in a believer as BORN AGAIN...., because they have believed.
After they do, they should be water baptized, as you find everyone in the New Testament being water baptized after they believe.

God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.
Just ask the dying Thief on the Cross.

Can you find a scripture that says.....God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.
I am thinking you wish you could. You aught to consider writing your own Bible, OSAS and no need for water Baptism. It is fashionable to write your own Bible.....The Jehovah's Witnessed did it. It would make things a lot easier for ya.

You could put in there.....And Christ said, Don't worry about the water for baptism, just think about it!

Or Christ said, Don't worry about sinning on your way to the druggie sex orgy party just stop by the church first and get your license to sin card!

 

[ScottA]

Can you find a scripture that says.....God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.
I am thinking you wish you could. You aught to consider writing your own Bible, OSAS and no need for water Baptism. It is fashionable to write your own Bible.....The Jehovah's Witnessed did it. It would make things a lot easier for ya.

You could put in there.....And Christ said, Don't worry about the water for baptism, just think about it!

Or Christ said, Don't worry about sinning on your way to the druggie sex orgy party just stop by the church first and get your license to sin card!

Since @Behold was referring to my comment, I will respond to yours:

Have you not perceived in the creation of the heavens and the earth, that God divided the waters below from those above, and that those below are liquid and those above are not, but are rather the spirit of God?

What then must be said of water baptism--that it is from above? No, but below; and just as all things created have only been created in the "likeness" of those things above (just as we are), such are the waters of this world which only reflect even the sky, let alone the spirit of God.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Can you find a scripture that says.....God requires FAITH.....not water, to save you.
I am thinking you wish you could. You aught to consider writing your own Bible, OSAS and no need for water Baptism. It is fashionable to write your own Bible.....The Jehovah's Witnessed did it. It would make things a lot easier for ya.

You could put in there.....And Christ said, Don't worry about the water for baptism, just think about it!

Or Christ said, Don't worry about sinning on your way to the druggie sex orgy party just stop by the church first and get your license to sin card!

Can you show us in John 3 where Jesus told Nicodemus to be water baptized to be born again when he told him HOW (not what)

 

[Keiw]

This of course is a greatly controversial topic and there is much confusion--obviously.

But instead of saying that "OSAS people admit to continual sin, etc." I would say that it is just part of the confusion...that most OSAS people are even inclined to feel that they could be wrong for the same reasons that the Non-OSAS group does. But then they read the scriptures again and don't want to deny that portion that says if we are saved they/we "do not sin." They don't quite understand it--but "the spirit is willing." For this reason--these are in fact the most faithful!

As for what is correct--No, a saved person is born of God--and God does not sin.

As for continued sin...a person born of God has entered eternity. But during these unique last times, God has chosen some to be alive in the spirit while they remain for a while in their dead and sinful body. God can do that--and He has. This is a unique thing. But it is a mistake to say they are not saved if they are, or that it is not forever when it is. Whoever does this, "does it to Him"--because He is "in them, and they in Him." Which Jesus warned of.

A good day to you Scott, There should be no controversy whatsoever. Jesus is 100% clear at Matthew 7:21-23--Only those living now to do his Fathers will over their own will get to enter his kingdom( be saved)--The rest who work iniquity= practice a sin will hear these words as judgement--Get away from me you who work iniquity, i must confess i never even knew you--Jaws will drop to the floor, especially the ones who believed the blind guides about-once saved always saved. Best to see what Jesus teaches on matters-ALWAYS. Not all professing to be his teachers are-they are these-2Cor 11:12-15

 

[Taken]

The Church does not teach that because SCRIPTURE does not teach that we are "saved forever". Who taught you that we are saved forever after baptism?

People are naturally born ..... Not Believing in God, in Christ.
People can Hear About God, About Jesus...and Believe what they hear.
People can ^^...and Doubt what they hear.
People can ^^...and Deny what they hear.

Routinely People can Hear today, tomorrow, the next day, from day to day;
and Believe, Doubt, Deny, Believe, Doubt, Believe...

Maybe that ^ does not resonate with you.
Maybe you believe every word a Priest utters to you ears.

However IF you studied scripture; you would find Jesus chose men to follow Him, hear Him, learn from Him.......and some things they heard, they doubted, they wondered, they Denied Him!

So what is the OT History? Repeatedly when MEN trusted Gods Word, did as God instructed.....WHAT? God was WITH them. AND? When men Defied Gods Word..........WHAT? God was NOT WITH them.

Jesus is sent to Earth. God Teaches....BELIEVE IN GOD and the one He Sent.

A man BELIEVING IN God, God IS WITH that man.
A man BELIEVING IN GOD and JESUS, God and Jesus IS WITH that man.

AND? If a man IS Doubting, wondering, denying? WHAT?
Nothing new. God is not WITH that man. Jesus is not WITH that man.

If a man LEAVES his wife. He is not WITH her.
If a man RETURNS to his wife. He IS WITH his wife and his wife IS WITH the man.

GET IT? WITH...WITHOUT...WITH...WITHOUT...dependent upon what a man FREELY BELIEVES on any given day.

^^THAT IS NOT having RECEIVED the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!

NOW, should a man PHYSICALLY DIE, on the DAY and moment he IS Believing; HE SHALL BE SAVED at the moment of his Physical Death.
His body will be buried. His soul shall be saved and escorted to Heaven to Wait for resurrection in a glorified body.

BUT, but, but, WHAT IF; he does not believe at the moment of his physical death? He shall not be saved....HE LOST HIS SALVATION, that was OFFERED TO him, BUT he DID NOT Take or Receive.

WHAT OFFERING?
Jesus’ Offering of HIS BODY, unto death.
Oh, oh, oh..HOW MANY TIMES DID Jesus OFFER His BODY, unto death.
ONCE! FOR WHO? ALL.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

WAIT WHAT? WHO IS SANCTIFIED? WHY?
WHAT IS SANCTIFIED?.........SET APART!
Who is sanctified?
Those WHO call ON THE Lord and CONFESS THEIR HEARTFUL BELIEF!

The SAME who DO what JESUS DID, Lay Down their OWN bodily Life (Crucified WITH JESUS)....How many times? ONCE!

AND THEN WHAT? Forgiven all Sin Against God? WHAT SIN? Having had NOT BELIEVED in God and Christ Jesus.

AND THEN WHAT? BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!
The Spirit of God......ENTERS IN........that man....

Do you comprehend the difference between...
God with a man, God without a man, God with a man, God without a man, AND GODS SPIRIT “IN” a man?

ONCE Gods Spirit IS “IN” a man ...GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE THAT MAN!

THAT man CAN NEVER AGAIN (SIN)...by NOT BELIEVING IN GOD, IN CHRIST JESUS.

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


Heb 10
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


IF the Spirit of God is NOT “IN” you, you are NOT Sanctified.
IF you are NOT sanctified, (set apart), you are NOT Perfected.
IF you are NOT SAVED, The Power/Spirit of God is NOT “IN” you.

Gods GIFT of Salvation IS ALWAYS given A-F-T-E-R a bodily Death!
Gods GIFT of His HOLY SPIRIT “IN” a man IS ALWAYS given A-F-T-E-R a bodily Death!

Really, you were NOT taught, ONCE a man FREELY Confesses Heartful Belief....that man Receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that man IS FOREVER with The Lord God?

 

[Keiw]

People are naturally born ..... Not Believing in God, in Christ.
People can Hear About God, About Jesus...and Believe what they hear.
People can ^^...and Doubt what they hear.
People can ^^...and Deny what they hear.

Routinely People can Hear today, tomorrow, the next day, from day to day;
and Believe, Doubt, Deny, Believe, Doubt, Believe...

Maybe that ^ does not resonate with you.
Maybe you believe every word a Priest utters to you ears.

However IF you studied scripture; you would find Jesus chose men to follow Him, hear Him, learn from Him.......and some things they heard, they doubted, they wondered, they Denied Him!

So what is the OT History? Repeatedly when MEN trusted Gods Word, did as God instructed.....WHAT? God was WITH them. AND? When men Defied Gods Word..........WHAT? God was NOT WITH them.

Jesus is sent to Earth. God Teaches....BELIEVE IN GOD and the one He Sent.

A man BELIEVING IN God, God IS WITH that man.
A man BELIEVING IN GOD and JESUS, God and Jesus IS WITH that man.

AND? If a man IS Doubting, wondering, denying? WHAT?
Nothing new. God is not WITH that man. Jesus is not WITH that man.

If a man LEAVES his wife. He is not WITH her.
If a man RETURNS to his wife. He IS WITH his wife and his wife IS WITH the man.

GET IT? WITH...WITHOUT...WITH...WITHOUT...dependent upon what a man FREELY BELIEVES on any given day.

^^THAT IS NOT having RECEIVED the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!

NOW, should a man PHYSICALLY DIE, on the DAY and moment he IS Believing; HE SHALL BE SAVED at the moment of his Physical Death.
His body will be buried. His soul shall be saved and escorted to Heaven to Wait for resurrection in a glorified body.

BUT, but, but, WHAT IF; he does not believe at the moment of his physical death? He shall not be saved....HE LOST HIS SALVATION, that was OFFERED TO him, BUT he DID NOT Take or Receive.

WHAT OFFERING?
Jesus’ Offering of HIS BODY, unto death.
Oh, oh, oh..HOW MANY TIMES DID Jesus OFFER His BODY, unto death.
ONCE! FOR WHO? ALL.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

WAIT WHAT? WHO IS SANCTIFIED? WHY?
WHAT IS SANCTIFIED?.........SET APART!
Who is sanctified?
Those WHO call ON THE Lord and CONFESS THEIR HEARTFUL BELIEF!

The SAME who DO what JESUS DID, Lay Down their OWN bodily Life (Crucified WITH JESUS)....How many times? ONCE!

AND THEN WHAT? Forgiven all Sin Against God? WHAT SIN? Having had NOT BELIEVED in God and Christ Jesus.

AND THEN WHAT? BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!
The Spirit of God......ENTERS IN........that man....

Do you comprehend the difference between...
God with a man, God without a man, God with a man, God without a man, AND GODS SPIRIT “IN” a man?

ONCE Gods Spirit IS “IN” a man ...GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE THAT MAN!

THAT man CAN NEVER AGAIN (SIN)...by NOT BELIEVING IN GOD, IN CHRIST JESUS.

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


Heb 10
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


IF the Spirit of God is NOT “IN” you, you are NOT Sanctified.
IF you are NOT sanctified, (set apart), you are NOT Perfected.
IF you are NOT SAVED, The Power/Spirit of God is NOT “IN” you.

Gods GIFT of Salvation IS ALWAYS given A-F-T-E-R a bodily Death!
Gods GIFT of His HOLY SPIRIT “IN” a man IS ALWAYS given A-F-T-E-R a bodily Death!

Really, you were NOT taught, ONCE a man FREELY Confesses Heartful Belief....that man Receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that man IS FOREVER with The Lord God?

All these did what you said-Yet Jesus will tell them these words at judgement, no matter what they think they did in his name and for him-Matt 7:22-23--So your teachers are sadly mistaken. Best to believe Jesus-all his real followers do.