Genesis : Trinity

[HIM]

Was Jesus dependant on the Father when He walked on water, cast out demons, raised the dead, and flew back to Heaven from whence He first departed before He was Virgin born?

Yes

Its interesting that everyone who can't stand the idea of "God manifested in the Flesh" and Jesus "the Word made flesh", never seem to realize that Jesus was PRE-INCARNATE, and didnt have a body, and didn't have the name JESUS.
At that TIME, He was "THE WORD", who "WAS God". John 1

Can't stand the idea of God manifested in the flesh? Can we avoid Such dramatics and putting words in one another's mouths? John 1 says the Word was God not the Word was one of three gods that are one God thee God.

And John 14 states from the very testimony of Jesus, He that is in me doeth the works. Which by the way is very similar to Paul's testimony regarding us in Philippians when he said. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. Or if one needs more, we have Luke in Acts testifying in chapter 17 Paul again saying, but in respect to all humanity not just Christians; when he said to the pagans, " For it is certain even as your own have said. In Him we live, move and have our being"

(John 14:10 [KJV])
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

(John 14:11 [KJV])
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

 

[Taken]

Trinity? Hmmm labels.... Jesus was dependent upon the Father as we are to be. He said, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works, For without Him I can do nothing.

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Maker....Creator....Holy Spirit.......One Lord God Almighty

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[HIM]

Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Maker....Creator....Holy Spirit.......One Lord God Almighty

Glory to God,
Taken

Was God not one of three gods.

 

[Taken]

Was God not one of three gods.

God is One God...Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient

On Earth, in the presence of Mortals, in the Likeness as a Man, called the Son.
In Heaven, unseen to Mortals, called the Father.

 

[Behold]

I own dozens of them. Which translation do you recommend? Perhaps I already have it.

I dont own dozens of bibles.
i dont own any greek lexicons or a concordance.
When i was first called to do what i do, about '86, i had a KJV that was in my car, a gift, that was not opened in 7 yrs.
From '87-'93 i was obsessed with the bible, the New Testament, and mostly Paul's epistles., and i am still to this day.
He said "be a follower of me as i follow Jesus" and that is not a mistranslation of the "non-original Greek".
If fact, if you don't do that, you'll end up a heretic........Hebrews 13:9.

Over the years, ive had access to Matthew Henry's Commentaries, Strong's Concordance, and assorted "other" commentaries including Clarance Larkin's Dispensational Truth and the Book of Mormon.
But, i never really used any of it, as i just didn't want to find myself teaching what some man said, no matter how much this man might be anointed to teach.
I have Paul and the Holy Spirit and a New Testament. And that is all i want to know.
A person who has deeply studied Paul will bond with what i teach, instantly.
A person who has not, will not be able to connect with it, so well, tho, they will recognize that they are moved by what i teach.
Its interesting to know, as ive seen it many times...that people who hate me on Forums, still read what i write.
They are stealthy about this, and im glad they read it, as they are not going to get what they need to hear from their Cult, so, that they can find me on practically every "christian" forum, is good for them.

 

[Matthias]

I dont own dozens of bibles.
i dont own any greek lexicons or a concordance.
When i was first called to do what i do, about '86, i had a KJV that was in my car, a gift, that was not opened in 7 yrs.
From '87-'93 i was obsessed with the bible, the New Testament, and mostly Paul's epistles., and i am still to this day.
He said "be a follower of me as i follow Jesus" and that is not a mistranslation of the "non-original Greek".
If fact, if you don't do that, you'll end up a heretic........Hebrews 13:9.

Over the years, ive had access to Matthew Henry's Commentaries, Strong's Concordance, and assorted "other" commentaries including Clarance Larkin's Dispensational Truth and the Book of Mormon.
But, i never really used any of it, as i just didn't want to find myself teaching what some man said, no matter how much this man might be anointed to teach.
I have Paul and the Holy Spirit and a New Testament. And that is all i want to know.
A person who has deeply studied Paul will bond with what i teach, instantly.
A person who has not, will not be able to connect with it, so well, tho, they will recognize that they are moved by what i teach.

I have Paul and the Holy Spirit and a New Testament. And that is all I want to know.

Its interesting to know, as ive seen it many times...that people who hate me on Forum, still read what i write.
They are stealthy about this, and im glad they read it, as they are not going to get what they need to hear from their Cult, so, that they can find me on practically every "christian" forum, is good for them.

They’re reading and reacting to your commentary [on the Bible and on them].

 

[Matthias]

God is One God...Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient

On Earth, in the presence of Mortals, in the Likeness as a Man, called the Son.
In Heaven, unseen to Mortals, called the Father.

Do you believe that Jesus himself is the Father?

 

[Behold]

They’re reading and reacting to your commentary on the Bible.

What you mean to say, is that they are "reacting to Pauline Theology"., as its new to most on Christian forums.
ITs all i teach.

See, Jesus is the author of "Justification by Faith", and Paul is the chosen vessel God chose to use to give it to the world.
And now in these last days, there is a "great falling away" from the Gospel of the Grace of God, and that is why its rare to find anyone teaching Paul's Doctrine anywhere, much less a Christian forum.

 

[Taken]

Do you believe that Jesus himself is the Father?

I believe God in Heaven IS the Father, who IS God.
I believe God on Earth IS the Son, who IS God.

I believe God is His Own God, And one day, Shall be The God (so claimed) By ALL creatures in Heaven and on the face of the Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Matthias]

What you mean to say….

…is that they are "reacting to Pauline Theology"., as its new to most on Christian forums.
ITs all i teach.

Your working premise is likely what riles them up.

They don’t seem to mind that you reject their “Classic Trinity”.

The key, it appears, is saying you believe in “Trinity” - the details never mattered historically to JAT. The details used to matter to their clergy. It still does matter to some, but they don’t typically frequent Christian forums.

 

[Matthias]

I believe God in Heaven IS the Father, who IS God.
I believe God on Earth IS the Son, who IS God.

I believe God is His Own God, And one day, Shall be The God (so claimed) By ALL creatures in Heaven and on the face of the Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

But do you believe Jesus himself is the Father?

 

[HIM]

I dont own dozens of bibles.
i dont own any greek lexicons or a concordance.
When i was first called to do what i do, about '86, i had a KJV that was in my car, a gift, that was not opened in 7 yrs.
From '87-'93 i was obsessed with the bible, the New Testament, and mostly Paul's epistles., and i am still to this day.
He said "be a follower of me as i follow Jesus" and that is not a mistranslation of the "non-original Greek".
If fact, if you don't do that, you'll end up a heretic........Hebrews 13:9.

Over the years, ive had access to Matthew Henry's Commentaries, Strong's Concordance, and assorted "other" commentaries including Clarance Larkin's Dispensational Truth and the Book of Mormon.
But, i never really used any of it, as i just didn't want to find myself teaching what some man said, no matter how much this man might be anointed to teach.
I have Paul and the Holy Spirit and a New Testament. And that is all i want to know.
A person who has deeply studied Paul will bond with what i teach, instantly.
A person who has not, will not be able to connect with it, so well, tho, they will recognize that they are moved by what i teach.
Its interesting to know, as ive seen it many times...that people who hate me on Forums, still read what i write.
They are stealthy about this, and im glad they read it, as they are not going to get what they need to hear from their Cult, so, that they can find me on practically every "christian" forum, is good for them.

There is no perfect translation of the Bible. But most will do. Including the KJV. The fact that you say in relation to yourself that a person who studied Paul will bond with what you teach instantly is a big red flag.
In regards to studying the Bible there is no one box that applies to all. God had moved me to look at the text that the KJV was translated from and to use lexicons and get a better understanding of the Greek and it's grammar. We are all different. But prayerfully we are all in and of Christ and are being used to edify one another through Christ, through God.

 

[Behold]

Your working premise is likely what riles them up.

They don’t seem to mind that you reject their “Classic Trinity”.

The key, it appears, is saying you believe in “Trinity” - the details never mattered historically to JAT. The details used to matter to their clergy. It still does matter to some, but they don’t typically frequent Christian forums.

"semantics". nothing more.


God is the Father, of all Creation. Jesus "pre-incarnate" as The CHRIST, is the WORD of Creation, and the Holy Spirit is the power that creates.


John 1:10 says that the EARTH, was created through "HIM" who was 'IN the World"... Literally.

This is very interesting, as this verse is detailing that the pre-incarnate Jesus, the "Him" is the Word of Creation "made though".

How does that work?

God is the Father of Creation who SPOKE Creation, into existence....>"THROUGH" the "WORD"... who is Christ Pre-incarnate.

See those 2?

God the Father, of Creation, and the WORD, who "was God".......= Jesus Pre-Incarnate. John 1

that is 2.

And that explains...>" Let US make man......in OUR Image.""

All things are made THROUGH Christ who is the WORD of God, that is spoken that becomes this...

Colossians 1:16 = Notice again...."HIM".......see that?
That is the same HIM, you find in : John 1:10

The reason that "christians" can't learn this stuff, is because you have to actually study the NT so that it puts all this together for you.
= "rightly divide" = "spiritual discernment".
Most people, study a commentary, or some heretics online website.... and that is all they know to believe.
Or they just parrot what their cult told them to believe.

 

[Matthias]

"semantics". nothing more.

“These days, you’re likely to hear someone accuse a debate partner of ‘just arguing semantics,’ which, if you think about it, means their debate partner is ‘just arguing about meaning,’ which you would think is, like, the point of arguing in the first place? But in our modern vernacular, the phrase has somehow become shorthand to insinuate the speaker has argued something trivial or unimportant.”

What Does It Mean When Someone Says 'That's Just Semantics'?

God is the Father, of all Creation. Jesus "pre-incarnate" as The CHRIST, is the WORD of Creation, and the Holy Spirit is the power that creates.


John 1:10 says that the EARTH, was created through "HIM" who was 'IN the World"... Literally.

This is very interesting, as this verse is detailing that the pre-incarnate Jesus, the "Him" is the Word of Creation "made though".

How does that work?

God is the Father of Creation who SPOKE Creation, into existence....>"THROUGH" the "WORD"... who is Christ Pre-incarnate.

See those 2?

God the Father, of Creation, and the WORD, who "was God".......= Jesus Pre-Incarnate.

that is 2.

And that explains...>" Let US make man......in OUR Image.

All things are made THROUGH Christ who is the WORD of God, that is spoken that becomes this...

Colossians 1:16

 

[Matthias]

A true story, which I present here as an allegory.

One day I was assigned to work in a very dangerous part of Atlanta. While carrying out my assignment, I was approached by an intoxicated woman who solicited me for prostitution.

“No, ma’am,” I replied. “I’m a married man.”

“I like married men,” she replied.

“I work for the state, ma’am. I’m here today on a government assignment. I have to be going now.”

“Well hell, baby. Why didn’t you say so to begin with? I offer a government discount.”

I went on about my business. The poor woman, I suppose, went on about hers.

 

[Behold]

“These days, you’re likely to hear someone accuse a debate partner of ‘just arguing semantics,’ which, if you think about it, means their debate partner is ‘just arguing about meaning,’ which you would think is, like, the point of arguing in the first place? But in our modern vernacular, the phrase has somehow become shorthand to insinuate the speaker has argued something trivial or unimportant.”

"Godhead"... 3 Spiritual "persons" as the unified "God". 1.) Father. 2.) Son. 3.) Holy Spirit.


So, the issue for the "we hate the trinity" crowd, is #2.

"Son".
As its just not a workable situation mentally for some people to believe that a Son, who is a Man, can be a Deity.
Their mind goes "tilt'. and it cannot compute this.. "son" "man" is "God".
And i recognize this issue, .. .which explains why i teach :

1.) God (Father),
2.) WORD-Pre-incarnate, John 1 as the Son made Flesh,
3.) + the Holy Spirit.

So, in this way, when a person can understand that Jesus was IN HEAVEN as Christ the WORD, in John 1, who became a man, Jesus....
THis helps some to see ....."Oh, He was IN HEAVEN before He was VIRGIN born, and the difference is, when He was Pre-incarnate Jesus didnt have a BODY.

= "Let US make man in OUR image" =Thats 2

This helps some to see it., tho some would not see it if God appeared to them and said...."Yes , 3<>1".
And that is because deception is stronger then reality in and regarding people who are deceived.

 

[Behold]

A true story, which I present here as an allegory.

One day I was assigned to work in a very dangerous part of Atlanta. While carrying out my assignment, I was approached by an intoxicated woman who solicited me for prostitution.

“No, ma’am,” I replied. “I’m a married man.”
“I like married men,” she replied.
“I work for the state, ma’am. I’m here today on a government assignment. I have to be going now.”
“Well hell, baby. Why didn’t you say so to begin with? I offer a government discount.”
I went on about my business. The poor woman, I suppose, went on about hers.

Jesus met a few of those.
One of them ended up washing His feet with her tears of Joy, while wiping them dry with her hair.

This is a person who understands GOD's Grace, ( as God just gave it to her) as that is how you react when you know that all your sin is forgiven and you have eternal security "in Christ".

Liars, and they are legion on forums, would say...."no, she would not do that, as She was forgiven MUCH, so, what she would do is go and practice her ""license to sin".

But the reality is... when you know that you can't lose your Salvation, who is Christ in you...(He's not going anywhere)... you will not only love God more, but you will be the very person who does this....>"present your body a living sacrifice" vs all these Legalistic "license to sin" teaching nutbars, who ALL worry about commandments, who ALL SIN and CONFESS and that is for years and years..
They can't stop because broken faith produces a carnal mind = where the problem is found.

So, its the Grace hating crowd that HOWLS about "license to sin" who are the broken faith believers who are sinning, and repenting, and believe that is "real christianity"........"that is how it works", who ruin Christian forums with their self saving self righteousness "teaching".

Thats, quite a fail, among other things.

 

[Taken]

But do you believe Jesus himself is the Father?

Yes, Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
Scripturally we are notified...He purposed in HIMSELF.
Spiritually I know, I understand, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit IS One
Lord God Almighty.
As long as Mortals Exist...
The Father is God IN Heaven.
The Son is/was/will be God ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “WITH” (some) men ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “WITH & IN” (some) men ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “NEITHER WITH or IN” (some) men ON Earth.

WHEN Mortals “no longer Exist”; The Lord God Almighty SHALL BE the God of ALL His Saved and Quickened new Creatures.

He shall BE THEIR God, and THEY SHALL BE “His People”.
The terms, father, mother, sons, daughters, children....SHALL BE:
Irrelevant.

 

[Matthias]

Yes, Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
Scripturally we are notified...He purposed in HIMSELF.
Spiritually I know, I understand, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit IS One
Lord God Almighty.
As long as Mortals Exist...
The Father is God IN Heaven.
The Son is/was/will be God ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “WITH” (some) men ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “WITH & IN” (some) men ON Earth.
The Holy Spirit is “NEITHER WITH or IN” (some) men ON Earth.

WHEN Mortals “no longer Exist”; The Lord God Almighty SHALL BE the God of ALL His Saved and Quickened new Creatures.

He shall BE THEIR God, and THEY SHALL BE “His People”.
The terms, father, mother, sons, daughters, children....SHALL BE:
Irrelevant.

Thanks.

***

Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit

What say you to that @Behold? @ScottA? @farouk? @marks? @RLT63?

I recognize what it is. Do you?

Name that theology.

 

[Behold]

Thanks.

***

Jesus Himself IS the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit

John 1. The WORD = God.

The "Word" is Jesus manifested in the Flesh