Another Premillennial absurdity

[Randy Kluth]

Nobody is provoking Randy.

Don't agree. It's obvious to me.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It's my opinion your in denial of continual presented scriptural truth, that exposes your claims and beliefs in error

"National Salvation For Israel" a false dream in a Zionist fairy tale!

Calling someone's honestly-held view a "fairy tale" is either immature or designed to be provocative. No wonder you see nothing provocative about WPM! You're the same. It certainly isn't an unfair characterization if that is your honest assessment. But repeating it over and over is something different. That isn't a discussion--that's designed to abuse.

 

[WPM]

Don't agree. It's obvious to me.

Stop always playing the emotional victim and address the issues. This is a Bible discussion forum. We are not psychological counselors.

 

[Truth7t7]

That isn't a discussion--that's designed to abuse.

"National Salvation For Israel" A Zionist Teaching In Error

Woe is me, nobody will give me hugs and accept my Zionist teachings in error, I'm abused

 

[Timtofly]

This shows the victory of the first resurrection and the emptying of Abraham's bosom of the dead in Christ to reign with Christ in heaven during the intra-Advent period. It also shows the enlightenment of the nations on earth with the glorious Gospel of Christ. It shows the saints undergoing intensified persecution by the world (Gog and Magog) on earth prior to Jesus return.

It is none of that, as that is your opinion.

I read that those just beheaded are resurrected after Satan was bound, who was also running things when these souls were beheaded. Explain how my opinion is different from what can be read?

Gog and magog is just describing those people who have settled at the ends of the earth, having no special prophetic time keeping. They are not associated with any major nation. The Second Coming is not implied and not specified as an event.

Compared to 1 Corinthians 15, the 1,000 year reign is after the Second Coming when Jesus reigns until all enemies are subjected. No contradictions nor forcing any opinion onto the text.

I don't see how the Second Coming is in Revelation 19 either. That is only a return after those same 42 months, in which those souls were beheaded. No where does any Scripture coroborate that the Second Coming is after a specified 42 month period.

 

[Randy Kluth]

"National Salvation For Israel" A Zionist Teaching In Error

Woe is me, nobody will give me hugs and accept my Zionist teachings in error, I'm abused

It's not about hurt feelings. It's about goading others, deliberately provoking them. The Bible tells us not to do that. You apparently don't follow the Bible, or deliberately ignore it?

 

[Truth7t7]

Calling someone's honestly-held view a "fairy tale" is either immature or designed to be provocative. No wonder you see nothing provocative about WPM! You're the same. It certainly isn't an unfair characterization if that is your honest assessment. But repeating it over and over is something different. That isn't a discussion--that's designed to abuse.

Randy your claims of "National Salvation For Israel" is a fairy tale, found no place in scripture, it's Sci-Fi

You may honestly hold this belief, but it's found no place in scripture

My response isn't intended to provoke you in any way, my intention is to continue in exposing this false Zionist teaching, it's that simple

Of course your upset your claims are exposed, as you bring false claims against your opposition in hopes to silence them

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

It's not about hurt feelings. It's about goading others, deliberately provoking them. The Bible tells us not to do that. You apparently don't follow the Bible, or deliberately ignore it?

Nobody is goading or deliberately proviking Randy as claimed, these are false claims trying to silence your opposition who is exposing your teachings in error

"National Salvation For Israel" this claim isn't found in scripture, its a completely man made fabrication

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

Nobody is goading or deliberately proviking Randy as claimed, these are false claims trying to silence your opposition who is exposing your teachings in error

"National Salvation For Israel" this claim isn't found in scripture, its a completely man made fabrication

Jesus Is The Lord

No, actually you have been goading "Randy," and that appears to be your chosen manner. And the evidence of Israel's future "National Salvation" is everywhere, from the Abrahamic Promises, to the OT Prophets--I've quoted some of them, to Jesus' Olivet Discourse, to Acts 1 and Rev 1.

You're terribly misguided if you think people just made this up. The Jews held to the "Jewish Hope," or the "Hope of Israel," for many years before Christianity came into existence, and have continued to believe it throughout the NT age, saying "next year in Jerusalem." But I really don't expect you to acknowledge any of this, since it has not been your manner to do so.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, actually you have been goading "Randy," and that appears to be your chosen manner. And the evidence of Israel's future "National Salvation" is everywhere, from the Abrahamic Promises, to the OT Prophets--I've quoted some of them, to Jesus' Olivet Discourse, to Acts 1 and Rev 1.

You're terribly misguided if you think people just made this up. The Jews held to the "Jewish Hope," or the "Hope of Israel," for many years before Christianity came into existence, and have continued to believe it throughout the NT age, saying "next year in Jerusalem." But I really don't expect you to acknowledge any of this, since it has not been your manner to do so.

Your claims of goading are false, Randy wants to remove the opposition that exposes his teachings as false

Just as democrats falsely shout racist against conservatives when they are exposed, no different

"National Salvation For Israel" is found no place in scripture as your Zionist teachings and beliefs claim

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

No, actually you have been goading "Randy," and that appears to be your chosen manner. And the evidence of Israel's future "National Salvation" is everywhere, from the Abrahamic Promises, to the OT Prophets--I've quoted some of them, to Jesus' Olivet Discourse, to Acts 1 and Rev 1.

You're terribly misguided if you think people just made this up. The Jews held to the "Jewish Hope," or the "Hope of Israel," for many years before Christianity came into existence, and have continued to believe it throughout the NT age, saying "next year in Jerusalem." But I really don't expect you to acknowledge any of this, since it has not been your manner to do so.

Every person on the planet possesses some quantity of Jewish DNA.

Will 8 billion souls experience national salvation?

How will 8 billion souls fit into Jerusalem?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I 100% disagree with you. If I change the context by manipulating the passage that is one thing. But not one thing did I manipulate by leaving certain things out--certainly not in the way I look at things. It may be that way to you, but I don't see things your way, and so did not have to edit for your benefit.

So, you left out the part that refutes your understanding of the passage because...? I guess it was just a coincidence that you left that part out that shows Jesus being led into the presence of the Father which is something that clearly relates to His ascension rather than His second coming.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you consider yourself a Second Coming sheep, you are going to be in torment for 1,000 years enduring the Millennium you claim won't happen.

Jesus said the sheep will inherit "eternal life" in "the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matt 25:34,46). That is what you call being in torment? And since when does "eternal life" equate to 1,000 years?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, actually you have been goading "Randy," and that appears to be your chosen manner. And the evidence of Israel's future "National Salvation" is everywhere, from the Abrahamic Promises, to the OT Prophets--I've quoted some of them, to Jesus' Olivet Discourse, to Acts 1 and Rev 1.

You're terribly misguided if you think people just made this up. The Jews held to the "Jewish Hope," or the "Hope of Israel," for many years before Christianity came into existence, and have continued to believe it throughout the NT age, saying "next year in Jerusalem." But I really don't expect you to acknowledge any of this, since it has not been your manner to do so.

Yes, the Jews of that time had such a great track record for accurately understanding the future.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, you left out the part that refutes your understanding of the passage because...? I guess it was just a coincidence that you left that part out that shows Jesus being led into the presence of the Father which is something that clearly relates to His ascension rather than His second coming.

No, I'm not a newcomer to this argument about this part being about the Ascension of Christ, and I *deliberately* left it out so as to not become derailed from my main point.

I can argue your view on this separately, and have never shied away from it. If all you want to do is make up scenarios that condemn me, I'm not interested.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's often a cop out to turn to "symbolic interpretation when you don't want to believe what Scripture is actually saying. The Scriptures refer to "heavenly clothes." Who cares whether the clothes are made of actual linen or something akin to it? The point is that we're covered by the righteousness of Christ when we obey and do that. Otherwise, our shame remains. Clothes are for "covering," and that is the point.

I'm sorry, what is your point? You seem to think you clarified it, but I don't have a clue of what your point is here. I showed that the clothes are only a symbolic reference, as is clearly seen in Revelation 19:8. You are trying to deny this?

So we have to ask ourselves, Why are these clothes referred to as "heavenly?" They refer to our heavenly body, or dwelling, because Christ is presently seated in heaven with his Father, representing our right to that body.

Good grief. John made it clear that the fine linen symbolically represents the righteousness or righteous acts of the saints and here you are still trying to say it represents bodies? Goodness sakes...

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, the Jews of that time had such a great track record for accurately understanding the future.

Jesus said that even bad Jewish leaders still "sat on Moses' seat" in some respects, and should be listened to. This was while the Law of Moses was still in effect. So yes, we shouldn't accept everything the Jews believed, but there was a strong consensus that *their own Prophets" promised a final restoration of the nation in the Messianic Age.

Matt 23.1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

It was commonly understand that the Scriptures promised a Messiah with eschatological implications...

John 4:25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

John 7:27 But we know where this man is from; when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.”

John 7:31 Still, many in the crowd believed in him. They said, “When the Messiah comes, will he perform more signs than this man?”

The following shows that this Woman at the Well, a Samaritan, reflected a common understanding of Christ's eschatological coming. And here we see the Jews generally understood their hope in a coming of Messiah from unknown origins, which we know to be Deity.

But note how this Messianic Coming is tied to the eschatological event associated with the promise of Israel's restoration. Even under the Law, Israel's restoration was always promised, contingent on national repentance. Whether under the Law, or breaking completely free of the Law, repentance was the key to Israel's national restoration. And it was guaranteed both in the Law and implcit in the promises God made to Abraham.

Micah 5.
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans[b] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”
3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor bears a son,
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Questioning the salvation of Amils. Calling Amils a bunch of "thugs" and 'Idoloters' is not respect but blatant hostility. You are obviously blind to how you function.

When we try to discuss the issues you present, like the last post, you respond with: "uninterested." That sums up the pattern. It testifies to how bereft Premil is of compelling arguments.

Yep. He is rather hypocritical, isn't he? No self awareness whatsoever.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said that even bad Jewish leaders still "sat on Moses' seat" in some respects, and should be listened to. This was while the Law of Moses was still in effect. So yes, we shouldn't accept everything the Jews believed, but there was a strong consensus that *their own Prophets" promised a final restoration of the nation in the Messianic Age.

Matt 23.1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Jesus was talking about their knowledge of the law of Moses there, not their understanding of Bible prophecy and the future. They clearly had no understanding of Bible prophecy as it related to their time and the future or else they would have recognized that Jesus was the Messiah.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Instead of inventing your own beliefs, show me where the Bible teaches all this. It seems like it is all out of your imaginations. Please do not talk on behalf of Amils, you seem to struggle with actually knowing what Amils believe. You are obviously not a good listener.

This has always been the case with him. He has no interest in understanding what others believe. He's only interested in misrepresenting what others believe. He is incapable of making coherent arguments to refute what others believe, so he resorts to that instead.