The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

The apostle Paul made it clear that we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9) and that God imputes righteousness apart from works (Romans 4:5-6) and that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5)

First, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5-6, and Titus 3:5 are referring to our Initial Salvation.

-#1. Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened. How many times were you quickened? Ephesians 2:3 says we were once by nature children of wrath (talking about our old life and the change that happened when we came to the LORD).​

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#2. Romans 5:2 says, “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace...” Romans 5:11 says, “by whom we have now received the atonement.” Romans 10:13 says, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” So Paul's focus many times in this letter is how a person needs to get saved (Which is tied in with being saved by His grace - a process of salvation that is without works). Romans 3 (Which sets up Romans 4) talks about how we all have fallen short of the glory of God in our past old life when we were sinners (Whereby we need to have faith in Jesus Christ).​

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#3. Titus 3:3-6 says:​

“For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; ”​

So as we can see that by reading the context that Paul is talking about when we first got saved. For we were at one time in the past foolish and disobedient serving different lusts and pleasures. Until God came into our life with His love and saved us by His mercy and by the washing of regeneration of the Holy Ghost. Meaning, we received a new heart with new desires (i.e. to be born again spiritually).

Second, you have to understand that when Paul spoke negatively of works or the Law in a generic sense he was always referring to the Old Law or the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal and he was not referring to the Laws of Christ (even though certain laws from the Old have carried over into the New Covenant Laws of Christ). One major thing you have to pay attention to is Acts 15 at the Jerusalem council. If you were to read Paul with Acts 15 in mind, then it becomes clear as to the motivation of why he spoke in the way he did against works and the Law (i.e. the Old Law). Please see again carefully in prayer Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24. If you were to carefully read and believe these verses, you would understand that there were a certain sect of Jews who believed Gentile Christians had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved. So if this is the case, it makes sense why Paul spoke in the way he did against the Law and or works in a generic sense. In fact, we see bread crumbs or clues to Paul condemning this heresy of being circumcised to be saved in his letters to the churches. Galatians 5:2 Paul says that if you seek to be circumcised Christ will profit you nothing. Paul also says, “For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” (Romans 2:25-29). Paul continues: “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?” (Romans 3:1). Paul even hints at the problem of circumcision for salvation again in Romans 4:9-12. So this is the context you have to ignore.

and that God called us and saved us with a holy calling not according to our works (2 Timothy 1:9)

2 Timothy 1:9 says:
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

This would be the works according to God's purpose and grace and not our own works like circumcision. For we are his workmanship and we are created unto Christ Jesus unto good works, and we are ORDAINED that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:10
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

yet you are somehow trying to convince me that what Paul is really saying is that we are saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law).

The problem is that you are not rightly dividing the Word. This is because believing in a sin and still be saved type belief is easier and it requires no effort on your end. You can be lazy by just believing in Jesus + nothing else and be saved.

Roman Catholics teach this same bogus argument in an effort to "get around" the truth that we are saved through faith and not by works in general.

You have made this same tired argument before. As I told you before, guilt by association is not always true. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. While the Roman Catholic church is in grave error because of their many sins like idolatry (bowing down to statues, and kissing them), and praying to dead people (Necromancy), and their adding their own false man made traditions to the Bible, etcetera, that does not mean they are not close to the truth in that works save. Granted, they wrongfully think one needs to first baptized (a work) in order to be initially saved. So they make it all about works and no grace ever (like the Church of Christ). But I already demonstrated by Scripture that AFTER we are saved by God's grace through faith (a process of salvation without works), we then enter the Sanctification of the Spirit as a part of God having chosen us to salvation.

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

So it's...

Ephesians 2:10 clearly states that we are created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works. Paul did not say that we are saved by good works. That is your eisegesis.

Paul did not want to confuse the issue because he was referring to how we need to first get saved by God's grace (Which is a process of salvation without works). But there are other places where Paul does teach that we need to later have works as a part of God's plan of salvation. Galatians 6:8-9 is a big one you have to ignore or twist to your own destruction.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Bible Highlighter, faith only and no obedience salvationists, always use Ephesians 2:8-9 as their proof text of faith only and no works salvation.
The do not understand Paul. Paul is not saying to the Ephesians no works of any kind to be saved.
Ephesians 2:8-9,
-for by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

Bible Highlighter, you understand what Paul is saying.
I've tried to explain this passage to Danthemailman many before.
He holds to how faith only doctrine interprets it.

Paul is teaching about boastful works!!! What would that be? Why any work that merited salvation.
Example: works of the law of Moses.

Paul taught the Ephesians the gospel.
We can learn how the ephesians were saved! Not by faith only!

Listen to Paul tell the Ephesians how to be saved in Acts 19:1-7.
-And it happened while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to  Ephesus( this is the land of the Ephesians)
-And finding some disciples. Paul said to them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?
So they said to him, We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.
-and Paul said to them, Into what then were you baptized? So they said, Into John's baptism.
-Then Paul said, John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Jesus who would come after John, that is Christ Jesus.
-When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

-And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Paul did not teach them to believe only. They were already believers in God. Yet they needed to be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ. They had only known about the old testament baptism of John.

Once Paul taught them to believe in Jesus. He then baptized them not in John's baptism but in the name of Jesus Christ.

They were told by Paul to believe and be baptized. That is not faith alone salvation.
Peter taught the same gospel in Acts 2:38,
-Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is not believe only no works.
Paul did not teach this to the Ephesians.
Peter did not teach it to the jews.

Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to works of merit, earning salvation. Paul condemns these works.
Paul never taught no works of any kind are involved in salvation.

Fact: Paul said the only kind of faith that profits anyone is a faith that works through love,
Galatians 5:6,
-For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision profits anything; but faith working through love.

I am aware of this issue for a very long time. I see Paul as referring to how we are initially saved by God's grace without works and how Paul is also referring to the problem of Circumcision Salvationism in Acts 15. Boasting is excluded when it comes to the Law of faith (Romans 3:27). So a person cannot boast in being baptized because they are simply doing what God told them to do. Boasting would only be in a work that God did not tell you to do.

In Acts 19 (Just like in Acts 10), the Spirit came upon them before they were actually water baptized.
In Acts 19, it's implied in the text that when Paul placed his hand upon them to place them into the water so as to baptize them, the Spirit came upon them. You receive the Spirit and you are saved because this is the downpayment of our inheritance. So we are saved by God's grace without works when we are first initially saved. But I know you disagree with this. But make no mistake... I believe we must then abide in the Sanctification of the Spirit as soon after we are saved by God's grace. Sanctification of the Spirit includes putting away sin, keeping yourself pure and unspotted from this world, and good works (in living a holy life). Sanctification is also a part of our salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

 

[Titus]

I am aware of this issue for a very long time. I see Paul as referring to how we are initially saved by God's grace without works and how Paul is also referring to the problem of Circumcision Salvationism in Acts 15. Boasting is excluded when it comes to the Law of faith (Romans 3:27). So a person cannot boast in being baptized because they are simply doing what God told them to do. Boasting would only be in a work that God did not tell you to do.

In Acts 19 (Just like in Acts 10), the Spirit came upon them before they were actually water baptized.
In Acts 19, it's implied in the text that when Paul placed his hand upon them to place them into the water so as to baptize them, the Spirit came upon them. You receive the Spirit and you are saved because this is the downpayment of our inheritance. So we are saved by God's grace without works when we are first initially saved. But I know you disagree with this.

At least you don't go around saying no works of any kind is involved in getting eternal life!
I grow so tired of Ephesians 2:8-9 being perverted.
Paul never taught faith alone saves friend.
Paul did not teach the Ephesians in Acts 19 to have faith alone to be saved,
Look closely with me at the verses.

Acts 19:2,
-he said to them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Bible Highlighter, Paul had already made the statement that they were believers in Jesus!
So, Paul did not believe they were saved.
Heres why we know they already had faith in Jesus.
Remember they believed John the Baptist and were baptized by him.

Remember that Apollos was their preacher before Paul. And Apollos told the to believe in Jesus!
So they already knew and believed in Jesus but they knew not of Jesus'baptism because Apollos had not learn all of Jesus' gospel at that time he taught the Ephesians.

Acts 18:24-25,
-Now a certain jew named Apollos born in Alexandria an eloquent man and mighty in the scriptures came to
Ephesus.
25-This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only of the baptism of John.

Now you know the Ephesians were already believers in Jesus Christ yet they had not received the Holy Spirit!!!

When did they receive the Holy Spirit? After Paul taught them the whole gospel of Jesus Christ.
Acts 19:5-6,
-When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
-And when Paul had laid hands on them the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Conclusion: Paul would not have taught then to be water baptized in Jesus' baptism if they were saved by their faith alone. Faith onlyist's claim the moment you believe you are Holy Spirit baptized.
Not Biblical! These Ephesians were not given anything from the Holy Spirit until they obeyed the gospel, they already believed and then Paul taught them the full gospel to be baptized in the name of Jesus, Mark 16:15-16

 

[Titus]

Granted, they wrongfully think one needs to first baptized (a work) in order to be initially saved. So they make it all about works and no grace ever (like the Church of Christ).

This is a false accusation! Paul was a member of the church of Christ! Romans 16:16
Do you think he went around telling folks no grace is involved in salvation only works?
I am in the church of Christ.
It has always been taught that Gods grace is in the old law as well as in the new.
You don't know what you are saying Bible Highlighter.
You are misrepresenting what my brethren believe!
All works no grace, hogwash!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is a false accusation! Paul was a member of the church of Christ!

When I refer to the “Church of Christ,” I am referring to that denomination that exists today that takes the label or name, “Church of Christ” as a part of being a 501c3 church and displays that name on the church premises. I was not referring in any way to the early church. So no false accusation has been made. Paul did not teach you are initially saved in water baptism unlike the denomination known as the Church of Christ today teaches.

Romans 16:16

Paul was saying this at the churches in his time. So this would be the early church. It's not referring to modern day versions that take on this name and come up with doctrines that are not in God's Word (like the preventing of musical instruments). Yes, I believe there are churches of Christ today, but they don't have that as some kind of name tag on some building. They spiritually are the church of Christ by their faith and what they do for the Lord, and not by some sign or plaque saying that.

Do you think he went around telling folks no grace is involved in salvation only works?

We have to be able to believe Ephesians 2:8-9, and Romans 11:6 with a good conscience or without having to twist the plain meaning of these verses in what they say. Both Titus 3:5 is true and Galatians 6:8-9 is true.

I am in the church of Christ.

Yes, I figured you attend the building that has the label called, “The Church of Christ.”

It has always been taught that Gods grace is in the old law as well as in the new.

Yes, God's grace existed in the Old Covenant (that is no more), and God's grace exists today in the New Covenant.
But they had to keep revisiting the same past sins year after year. The blood of goats and bulls never permanently took away sin like the sacrifice of Jesus did.

You don't know what you are saying Bible Highlighter.
You are misrepresenting what my brethren believe!
All works no grace, hogwash!

Not at all. I have attended three different Churches of Christ in my area and needless to say there was no preaching of grace.

I was not encouraged by the Word of God there. It felt pretty lifeless. While I had my concerns with the first church I went to, the one church I attended was really bad. They preached from Scripture involving the Law of Moses and then they stopped. No Jesus. No grace. No proper New Covenant instructions. They just read from the Law of Moses and stopped.

Every time I attended, they just never really talk about God's grace. It's all about do this or that and sing, and then eat a meal afterwards. But in discussion with this people over a meal, they seemed to be worldly focused and not Christ focused. So it shows that they are not really training folks properly.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

At least you don't go around saying no works of any kind is involved in getting eternal life!
I grow so tired of Ephesians 2:8-9 being perverted.
Paul never taught faith alone saves friend.
Paul did not teach the Ephesians in Acts 19 to have faith alone to be saved,
Look closely with me at the verses.

Acts 19:2,
-he said to them, Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

Bible Highlighter, Paul had already made the statement that they were believers in Jesus!
So, Paul did not believe they were saved.
Heres why we know they already had faith in Jesus.
Remember they believed John the Baptist and were baptized by him.

Remember that Apollos was their preacher before Paul. And Apollos told the to believe in Jesus!
So they already knew and believed in Jesus but they knew not of Jesus'baptism because Apollos had not learn all of Jesus' gospel at that time he taught the Ephesians.

Acts 18:24-25,
-Now a certain jew named Apollos born in Alexandria an eloquent man and mighty in the scriptures came to
Ephesus.
25-This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only of the baptism of John.

Now you know the Ephesians were already believers in Jesus Christ yet they had not received the Holy Spirit!!!

When did they receive the Holy Spirit? After Paul taught them the whole gospel of Jesus Christ.
Acts 19:5-6,
-When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
-And when Paul had laid hands on them the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Conclusion: Paul would not have taught then to be water baptized in Jesus' baptism if they were saved by their faith alone. Faith onlyist's claim the moment you believe you are Holy Spirit baptized.
Not Biblical! These Ephesians were not given anything from the Holy Spirit until they obeyed the gospel, they already believed and then Paul taught them the full gospel to be baptized in the name of Jesus, Mark 16:15-16

Think. Jesus forgave people on the spot and they were not water baptized. Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise. Luke 18:9-14 also seems to condemn the no grace type thinking found among the people in the the buildings that display the label, “the Church of Christ.” These things in Scripture you have to fight, twist, or ignore to no end because you like the fellowship at your church.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not Biblical! These Ephesians were not given anything from the Holy Spirit until they obeyed the gospel, they already believed and then Paul taught them the full gospel to be baptized in the name of Jesus, Mark 16:15-16

Peter says, “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” (1 Peter 3:21).

I see this “filth of the flesh” as in reference to putting away the sin nature or old man (that needs to be crucified). Why? Because 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. So believers do need to overcome sin, but it is not always an overnight process. One needs to first start off with milk before they can move on to the meat of the Word.

So baptism saves us to giving an answer to God in that our conscience is clean or good before God (Which is only made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ). Belief in Jesus saves us in the salvific sense. Same word used, but it has different aspects of understanding when you relate it to a particular thing. Belief in Jesus is dealing with salvation by entering Paradise (just as the thief did). Baptism is dealing with being saved in giving an answer to God that our conscience has been cleaned or is good by our belief in Jesus for salvation. So there is no contradiction or problem here.

 

[Titus]

When I refer to the “Church of Christ,” I am referring to that denomination that exists today that takes the label or name, “Church of Christ” as a part of being a 501c3 church and displays that name on the church premises. I was not referring in any way to the early church. So no false accusation has been made. Paul did not teach you are initially saved in water baptism unlike the denomination known as the Church of Christ today teaches

You are absolutely wrong about Paul. He did teach just as Jesus taught one must be water baptized to wash away your sins,
Acts 22:16,
-And now why are you waiting Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It is clear as the nose on your face Bible Highlighter! Paul taught water immersion washed away His sins not faith alone as you falsely teach. Tell Paul his sins were washed away on the road to Damacus
Before he obeyed Jesus' gospel and was baptized.

When I refer to the “Church of Christ,” I am referring to that denomination that exists today that takes the label or name, “Church of Christ” as a part of being a 501c3 church

Jesus said His church will endure forever! Matthew 16:18-19.
That means the Lords church is still here today.
So tell me if the churches of Christ is not the Lords church. Then where did it go to Bible Highlighter?

Yes, I figured you attend the building that has the label called, “The Church of Christ.”

God be thanked im in His body, Ephesians 5:23. Where all the saved are.

Again Paul was in the church of Christ. Where is that church today? Why are you not in it?

Not at all. I have attended three different Churches of Christ in my area and needless to say there was no preaching of grace

Proves nothing! So what, I know there are churches all over the world that claim to be the church in the new testament.

Heres a few,
Mormon church
Church of God
Christian church
United churches of Christ
Baptist church etc.
Some so called churches of Christ

Tell me where you live. I will tell you a sound church that preaches the true gospel of Christ.

No Jesus. No grace. No proper New Covenant instructions

3 churches and no grace.
So Bible Highlighter is going to claim all churches of Christ today, are teaching no grace.
RIDICULOUS!! You might be just a little bit biased, you think?

Here I'm going to prove you wrong,
Ready? I'm a member of the church of Christ, we teach Gods grace saves. No one can be saved without it.
But you walked into 3 churches and now all churches of Christ are no grace salvation only works.
Really?
This argument is so biased, you went out of your way to condemn the churches of Christ.
What church do you worship with? Can you prove it is in the new testament?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are absolutely wrong about Paul. He did teach just as Jesus taught one must be water baptized to wash away your sins,
Acts 22:16,
-And now why are you waiting Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 22:16 says:
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Is arising also a part of washing away your sins?

No.

We see that the word “and” starts a new thought here. So Paul is being told to wash away his sins by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said His church will endure forever! Matthew 16:18-19.
That means the Lords church is still here today.
So tell me if the churches of Christ is not the Lords church. Then where did it go to Bible Highlighter?

As I told you. The spiritual church of Christ today (not a 501c3) exists over the world. They believe in both being saved by God's grace without works, and they also believe in being saved by Sanctification (Which includes works of faith that follow after being saved by God's grace).

God be thanked im in His body, Ephesians 5:23. Where all the saved are.

Again Paul was in the church of Christ. Where is that church today? Why are you not in it?

Why would you assume I am not in the spiritual church of Christ?
That is far different than merely attending on Sunday in a big building that has that label.

Tell me where you live. I will tell you a sound church that preaches the true gospel of Christ.


3 churches and no grace.
So Bible Highlighter is going to claim all churches of Christ today, are teaching no grace.
RIDICULOUS!! You might be just a little bit biased, you think?

Why would I attend a church I am strongly against? I know your beliefs. You are for baptismal salvation which undoes the grace of God. Read Romans 11:6 several times in prayer.

Here I'm going to prove you wrong,
Ready? I'm a member of the church of Christ, we teach Gods grace saves. No one can be saved without it.

No. You believe a work mixed with grace saves you in your initial salvation (via by baptism).
So if you are in a desert with no water, you cannot save anyone who is with you.

But you walked into 3 churches and now all churches of Christ are no grace salvation only works.
Really?
This argument is so biased, you went out of your way to condemn the churches of Christ.
What church do you worship with? Can you prove it is in the new testament?

My experience merely confirms what I also researched about them online. I have more spiritual fire and learning with my Christian friends at work than I do with the modern day church that has the label on their building called, “The Church of Christ.” I am not new to your beliefs (that I disagree with strongly).

Again, I think Luke 18:9-14 perfectly describes the Church of Christ wrong mindset today.

 

[Titus]

Think. Jesus forgave people on the spot and they were not water baptized. Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise. Luke 18:9-14 also seems to condemn the no grace type thinking found among the people in the the buildings that display the label, “the Church of Christ

Wrong! I dont have to twist the scriptures to prove you wrong.
Jesus forgave people face to face. Correct.
Is Jesus in the flesh?
Is Jesus going to look into your eyes with His fleshly eyes and tell you, You are saved.
Is Jesus saving people that way today?
You know He is not here on earth, He has chosen to save folks today, THROUGH THE GOSPEL.

Your arguments are old and folks have used these over and over.

You are nothing but a liar every time you say the churches of Christ reject Gods grace.
Keep it up, you will give an answer. Not to man.

The thief on the cross.

1) Thief on the cross was saved under the old Mosaical law.
3) No one can be saved like the thief on the cros today for we are under the new testament of Christ.
4) Old law had a work to receive the forgiveness of sins, Mark 1:4,
- John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
5) No one can prove the thief was or was not baptized by John. Therefore no one can claim he did no works to be saved.
6) Jesus' gospel was not even in force yet. Hebrews 9:16-17 clearly teaches The testator must die before His testament is in force,
-For where there is a testament, there must be of necessity the death of the testator,
-For a testament is in force AFTER MEN ARE DEAD, since it has no power at all while the testator lives

Jesus saved the thief on the cross while He was still living!
"Today you will be with Me in paradise"

Therefore the thief was saved under the old covenant!

None of you examples prove baptism is not essential to salvation.
Jesus proves it is,
John 3:5,
Mark 16:15-16.

Last the thief repented of his sins on the cross. That is not saved by faith slone.
If the thief felt no Godly sorrow for stealing. God would not have saved him.

2Corinthians 7:10,
-for godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

No repentance, no salvation!

 

[Titus]

Again, I think Luke 18:9-14 perfectly describes the Church of Christ wrong mindset today.

Fits you well, where do you worship Bible Highlighter?
Are you in willfull sin?
Hebrews 10:25,
-not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another and so much more as you see the day approaching.

 

[Titus]

Acts 22:16 says:
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Is arising also a part of washing away your sins?

No.

Wrong the correct answer is yes.
Could Paul not obeyed the man sent by Jesus guided by the Holy Spirit?
Could Paul have just said no, I will not arise and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord.

According to Bible Highlighter Paul could have disobeyed the gospel preacher Ananias to Arise and be baptized and wash away they sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
You can tell Paul, he did not need to Arise. He was already saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wrong! I dont have to twist the scriptures to prove you wrong.
Jesus forgave people face to face. Correct.
Is Jesus in the flesh?
Is Jesus going to look into your eyes with His fleshly eyes and tell you, You are saved.
Is Jesus saving people that way today?

Why would He do something that would be contrary to how grace and or forgiveness works today?
It makes no sense. It sounds like you don’t like Jesus forgiving others on the spot. Paul says whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved in Romans 10:13. He mentions nothing about baptism in this verse.

You know He is not here on earth, He has chosen to save folks today, THROUGH THE GOSPEL.

Paul makes a distinction between the gospel and baptism in 1 Corinthians 1:17. So they are not the same thing.

Your arguments are old and folks have used these over and over.

You are nothing but a liar every time you say the churches of Christ reject Gods grace.
Keep it up, you will give an answer. Not to man.

I will have Scripture at my defense so I am not worried about it. The Bible teaches that we can be saved by God’s grace without water baptism. We see it with Cornelius and his family. We see it with the thief on the cross. They did not do any good works to be initially saved. They did not teach that you had to be water baptized to be initially saved. Your confusion arises because of Acts 2. But Peter is talking to an audience of Jews and not Gentiles. This is a big deal because the Jew already believed in God. Their problem is that they rejected their own Messiah and they needed to repent or come back to the LORD (Just as John the Baptist) was calling Jewish men in the area back to God by repentance (which included baptism). You also cannot in good conscience believe Romans 11:6 that says that if it be of works it is no more grace, and if it is grace it is no more works. This is in reference to our Initial Salvation. If salvation was by Works ALONE, then it would no longer be grace. If it is of grace, then it is no more by Works ALONE. You teach that you can only access grace if you do works of faith only because you believe James said faith without works is dead. But James was not referring to our Initial Salvation but he was referring to believers who were already saved by God’s grace.

The thief on the cross.

1) Thief on the cross was saved under the old Mosaical law.

Paul said if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4). This means that Jesus telling us he would be with Him in paradise is proof of His grace (Without the thief having to do anything like a work).

3) No one can be saved like the thief on the cros today for we are under the new testament of Christ.

Nope. John 1:12 says, “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

4) Old law had a work to receive the forgiveness of sins, Mark 1:4,
- John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

These were Jews being called back to God and not Gentile believers.
It was the act of repentance (seeking forgiveness with the LORD) of which caused one to have the remission of sins.
This is explained in Acts 22:16.

5) No one can prove the thief was or was not baptized by John. Therefore no one can claim he did no works to be saved.

If the thief was saved by water baptism prior, then it would not have been necessary for the thief to plead with Jesus to remember him when he would come into his Kingdom. The fact that he was being crucified for a crime shows that he was not changed by baptism.

None of you examples prove baptism is not essential to salvation.
Jesus proves it is,
John 3:5,
Mark 16:15-16.

When Jesus says we must be born of water He is not referring to water baptism. That’s silly to think that is what He meant. First, baptism is a symbol of death (See: Romans 6) and not life (being born). Second, being born of water is referring to how you need to be born by the communicated Word of God (like the Bible). For faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Peter refers to our being born by the Communicated Word in 1 Peter 1:23-25, and 1 Peter 2:2. This word is called the washing of the water of the Word in Ephesians 5:26.

Mark 16:15-16 I already explained with Scripture.

Last the thief repented of his sins on the cross. That is not saved by faith slone.
If the thief felt no Godly sorrow for stealing. God would not have saved him.

2Corinthians 7:10,
-for godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

No repentance, no salvation!

There are exceptions to the rule on many things in the Bible. While a believer who lives out their faith must repent of their sins, it does not mean that the thief must have repented, too. Granted, he could have done so. The text simply does not say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wrong the correct answer is yes.
Could Paul not obeyed the man sent by Jesus guided by the Holy Spirit?
Could Paul have just said no, I will not arise and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord.

According to Bible Highlighter Paul could have disobeyed the gospel preacher Ananias to Arise and be baptized and wash away they sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
You can tell Paul, he did not need to Arise. He was already saved.

Again, I already explained it. You are conditioned to reading the verse the wrong way and you will of course not read it in such a way that would contradict your church’s view. For if it did, then you would have to find fellowship elsewhere. Seeing you don’t want to do that, you will of course read it in a way that favors what you are comfortable with believing.

 

[Gospel Believer]

If the sin of unbelief is not covered by Christs shed blood, then no one can be saved.
Prove this belief of yours with scripture. You just make claims but do not back them up with scripture.
You prove nothing.

Sometimes in here it’s like “ Shooting Fish in a barrel”——- THIS is one of those times....

John3:18....” Those That Believe in the Son are not condemned , but those who do NOT BELIEVE in the Son have already been Condemned, because they have not believed in God’s only Son”....

 

[Gospel Believer]

Evidence of you doing Gods will,

, I am a very lazy man— retirement has ruined me—— lol.....

3 types of laziness, physical, mental, spiritual
Physical,
2Thessalonians 3:10,
-!if any of you will not work, neither shall he eat.


Did you notice the “ lol” in my remark about “ Laziness” .....that means I was not being serious.....Humor , similar to Grace, is something Prune-Faced , Religionists just don’t understand—— and “ THAT” is no joke.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

You just claim that. Let's look at the evidence.
Also, you have claimed belief only plus nothing else is Gods will. Prove that belief by putting it to the test against scripture.

Evidence of you doing Gods will,

3 types of laziness, physical, mental, spiritual
Physical,
2Thessalonians 3:10,
-!if any of you will not work, neither shall he eat.

Spiritual,
Romans 12:11,
-not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.

Mental,
Hebrews 6:12,
-but that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

According to Gospel believer doing Gods will is believing in Jesus only.
According to scripture Gods will includes not being lazy, sloth.
Conclusion:
Gospel believer believes one can ignore the Bible that speaks against laziness and be saved.
Only faith is required by God.

Therefore Gospel believer's salvation gospel is,
Belief only and no obedience to Gods other commandments saves.
Thus Gospel believer's gospel is salvation through disobedience to God.


It is Gods will to be baptized, Mark 16:15-16.
It is Gods will to repent of the sin of unbelief, Acts 17:30
It is Gods will that we repent of all our sins, Acts 2:38.
It is Gods will that we confess with our mouth faith in Jesus, Romans 10:9-10.

Gospel believer teaches none of this must be obeyed to be saved,
Therefore Gospel believer's gospel is not obedience to Gods will,
But disobedience to Gods will.
Thus he teaches a gospel of salvation through disobedience to Gods commandments.

So much error and ignorance is on display in this post that I don’t even know how to respond —- so I won’t.....( I’m still lazy, apparently)

 

[Gospel Believer]

. This is because you prefer to listen to popular preachers or churches rather than the Bible.

I’ve probably read the Bible more times than you can count....Ive listened to hundreds of preachers over the last 50 years and I reject the teachings of 90% of them....my approach to Scripture is identical to that of the Bereans—- I check every word that anybody preaches to make sure that it lines up with the Bible....that’s why I reject what you and the other Leaven- Spreading Legalists try to teach in here.....

 

[amigo de christo]

Sometimes in here it’s like “ Shooting Fish in a barrel”——- THIS is one of those times....

John3:18....” Those That Believe in the Son are not condemned , but those who do NOT BELIEVE in the Son have already been Condemned, because they have not believed in God’s only Son”....

Be sure and let the pope and scores of others in the all inclusive LIE they sell , KNOW this .
Truth is we better get more busy than ever reminding all folks about this . Notice real good
what the condemnation is . THEY Dont believe in JESUS . So popey is dead wrong when he says
muslims , jews , buddists and any othe religion is saved and knows GOD .
They ought to work for burger king cause they sure like selling and making a WHOPPER of a lie . Romes whopper , DONT BUY IT .

 

[Gospel Believer]

All those people you mentioned are in the hyper grace sect. They are sectarian. They believe in not obeying God. Only belief and nothing else. They reject Jesus as being their Lord, Master and King. He is only their Friend, Savior. They refer to anyone who teaches one must obey and submit to Jesus as lordship salvationists.

Just for the record....I thoroughly Reject the “ Hyper- Grace” Doctrine! I go with * SUPER* Hyper -Grace .....