The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

No need for it to mention baptism.
As you have already been taught, Paul had Ananias a gospel preacher teach him how to call on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16,
Jesus does not teach the gospel directly to anyone after He went back to His Father in heaven.
Calling on the name of the Lord can only occur when someone has been taught the gospel.
Paul teaches men, preachers teach the gospel to men, Romans 10:13-14.
Paul said this because Ananias taught him how to call on the name of the Lord.

Paul could have only called on the name of the Lord three days after he believed in Jesus on the road to Damascus. Therefore his sins were washed away when Ananias the preacher taught him 3 days after faith in Christ.
Your gospel is false, it does not fit with Bible teaches.

Paul says he came not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). This means they are distinct and different.
The gospel is different than water baptism.

When Paul talks about the gospel in Romans 10, keep 1 Corinthians 1:17 in mind. Read 1 Corinthians 15:1-10 for the gospel. Paul labored more than all of the brethren in 1 Corinthians 15:10. But Paul only baptized a few. So this means that the type of labor Paul is referring to is spreading the gospel message, loving the brethren, helping the poor, loving his enemies, etcetera.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not in a denomination.

Some in the Church of Christ (COC) (Campbelites) would disagree.

Is the church of Christ a Denomination?

Is the church of Christ a Denomination?

www.timberlandchurch.org

In either case, the COC holds to certain doctrines that are unique to that organization.
I believe that some of their beliefs are unbiblical.
Baptism for salvation is one.
And the view that they think the use of musical instruments is another one.
Another is that they don’t appear to engage the layperson to see if they truly know Christ and to then help them to loving others (seeking to save the lost). It just seems like a place where they hear the Bible,sing, eat some food afterwards and then leave and then repeat the process.

I agree. Rebuking is for others just as for self.

You claim Paul was not saved when he was baptized three days later after faith in Christ by Ananias.
This is the short answer to why he was saved in his water baptism not by faith alone as you teach.

Not at all. Ananias told Paul in the second half of Acts 22:16 that calling upon the name of the Lord would save him.

Jesus never saved anyone directly after He returned to His Father in heaven after His ressurection.

Paul was told to call on the name of the Lord by Ananias not Jesus! Acts 22:16.
Paul is the one who said that to call on the name of the Lord one had to have a preacher.
This could be any person that would teach/preach the gospel to the lost.

Put it together Bible Highlighter. Your eyes will be opened.

Acts 22:16,
-Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Now Pay attention to Paul teach how the lost call on His name, this is taught by men just like Paul was with Ananias.
Romans 10:13-14;15,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
-How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Paul taught you Bible Highlighter that he did not call on the name of the Lord on the road to Damascus! Paul called on His name when the gospel preacher Ananias spoke the gospel of Jesus Christ to him.

Your false gospel of Paul being saved by faith alone is refuted.

Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism is generally regarded as Protestant saying of Faith Alone (Or Sola Fide).
Seeing I do not follow Luther or Protestantism, I am not claiming faith alone in the same way they do because I know you also need to eventually have works of faith after one is saved by God’s grace through faith. I believe in Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism. It begins when a person is first saved and it is vitally important to understanding God’s grace and mercy. We see this proven with Cornelius and his family. They received the Spirit (the down payment of their inheritance) BEFORE being water baptized. This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that baptism for initial salvation is not true.

 

[mailmandan]

The church of God is found in the new testament Dan,
Therefore the church of God is Biblical.
The church of Christ is Biblical.
The house of God is Biblical.
There are more descriptions found in the new testament,
bride of Christ, Biblical.
Body of Christ, Biblical.

This is all Biblical in the New Testament, but that does not mean that just because a particular denomination today has the name "church of God" or "church of Christ" stamped on the front of their church building means that it lines up with the teachings from the church of God/churches of Christ which is in regards to the body of Christ in the New Testament.

Baptist church, unbiblical
Methodist church, unbiblical
Mormon church, unbiblical
Lutheran church, unbiblical
Presbyterian church, unbiblical
Grace fellowship church, unbiblical
Penetcostal church, unbiblical
Seventh day Adventist, unbiblical
House church, unbiblical

It's what a church teaches within a body of believers that makes it Biblical and not simply stamping the name "church of God" or "church of Christ" on the front of a church building.

Danthemailman, you lied to me when you said you were not in the Baptist sect.
I already asked you what church you were in. You would not tell me it was Baptist.
So, you said a modern name, (I dont remember it at this moment).
I looked it up, guess what? It's a Baptist sect! They teach Baptist doctrine.
Why is it Dan, you dont want others to know you are in a denomination?
I know why. Its because you know God condemns divisions.
Yet, you lie and say your church is non-denominational.
It is the Baptist faith no matter what name you try to come up with to hide it.

I did not lie to you. I do attend a non-denominal church and not a Baptist church. What name did I give you and show me what you looked up. Now the teachings of my church may be similar to what Baptists teach, but it's not an official Baptist church. That is not a lie and your slander is not helping your case and only demonstrates your dishonesty. I'm a Christian regardless of what church I attend to worship at. The true Church is the body of Christ which is made up of all genuine born again believers (Colossians 1:18, 24) anyway and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on the front of it. You put too much faith in names.

Just because a church uses the Biblical name of the Lords church like the church of God,
Does not make them the church of God.
btw, the church of God and the church of Christ are the same church!
There is only one church Dan, it's the Lords, and it has different descriptions of that one church in the new testament.

In the New Testament they are, but the modern day church of Christ and church of God denominations are not the same. Again, the one true church is made up of all genuine born again believers and is not simply a church building with a name stamped on the front of it.

Nowhere in the new testament is there a Baptist church. Its head is man, John Smyth not Christ.

This does not mean that there are no Baptists which are part of the true church, the body of Christ, so your argument is moot. Your obsession with names is getting ridiculous. I've heard many Campbellites proudly cite Romans 16:16 as if it's the modern day church of Christ that the New Testament is describing, but it's not. The Campbellite church preaches a false gospel. So much for names.

This is a ridiculous accusation Danthemailman here,

You don't prove you are the Lords church in the new testament by putting a sign up!
You prove you are the new testament church of Christ by,
Not adding anything to Gods word.
Not taking away anything from Gods word.
You only speak as the bible speaks.
And you are silent where the Bible is silent.

The Campbellite church misses the mark here.

You follow the new testament pattern.
Then and only then can you be Scripturally identified as the church of Christ.

The church of Christ in the New Testament and not the modern day Campbellite church that calls itself the church of Christ.

I can use a Biblical name on the building but if I dont teach the gospel of Jesus Christ like say faith onlyism.
Then it is not the Lords church,
Galatians 1:6-7,
-I marvel that you are turning away so soon from God who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you(sectarian, division) and want to pervert the gospel.

The Campbellite church teaches a false gospel of salvation by faith and works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism). That is a different gospel. (Galatians 1:6-7)

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Danthemailman as long as men like you don't want all to be of the same mind in that one church, we will always be in this constant confusion just as this forum is.

That statement is the epitome of irony. I've been a member of multiple Christian forums for over 10 years now and I can spot a false teacher from a mile away.

Acts 20:28 - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

1Corinthians 1:10,
-Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

This is only possible within the body of Christ and not within false religions and cults.

 

[mailmandan]

Not so. There is no twisting necessary. It’s called a plain reading of the Bible. We can clearly see the Bible teach that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith (which is a process of salvation without works), and then afterwards, works of faith are then required as a part of God’s plan of salvation.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

​

Supplemental verse:​

​

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

​

Supplemental verses:​

​

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).​

​

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

​

Supplemental verse:​

​

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

​

Supplemental verses:​

​

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).​

​

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

(Continued):

We have already been over this numerous times.

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Already you have failed the test of faith like many here. Because you don’t like what the Bible says at this point in the fact that it contradicts your theology, you seek to change what it says plainly. The Bible should not be...

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

In addition to exploiting Christ in order to promote themselves, legalists do seem to seek to draw disciples after themselves as well. @mailmandan Legalism is indeed a great danger; it detracts from 'the simplicity that is in Christ' (2 Corinthians 11.8).

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

You cannot ignore other verses at the expense of other ones. What do you make of 1 John 1:7? It also talks about being cleansed by the blood, too. You carry on believing you are doomed if you want, but I'm not falling for it so I'm using my 'ignore' option.

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

@mailmandan The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith: The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith: Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). Faith also finishes off as belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior which means we are trusting in Him ALONE for...

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

To all: What was the reason why these types in Luke 13 were told to depart from the Lord? Did Jesus tell them that they did not believe on the finished work of the cross Jesus had not died on the Cross yet, in Luke 13. You dont realize this, BibleHighligher, ether because you can't read and...

www.christianityboard.com

You are like a broken record.

I'm convinced that you are a 'spiritual narcissist' who loves to hear himself talk. You seem to be puffed up on flawed knowledge and you may be under the delusion that your broken record arguments will eventually cause me to change my mind and come to agree with you, but I can assure you that it's NEVER going to happen. I absolutely reject and detest your false 'type 2 works salvation' gospel! (Galatians 1:6-9) So instead of continuing to waste my time beating a dead horse, I'm going to break out the popcorn and observe your debate with Titus.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The NT gospel does not teach salvation by belief alone. If one can be saved by belief alone APART from repentance then there would be no reason for a person to ever repent of his sins. If one can be save in his unrepented of sins then why not be perpetually saved while remaining impenitent of sins?
But if one argues that one must repent of sins to be saved then salvation is not by belief alone but belief AND repentance. But if salvation is truly by belief alone, then repentance is never necessary....repentance would not be necessary when one intially becomes saved nor would it be necessary to perpetually remained saved.

 

[mailmandan]

Repentance actually 'precedes' saving belief/faith.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent (change your mind) and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

*NOTICE THE ORDER.*

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind.. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side (what you change your mind about) and faith in Christ is on the positive side (the new direction of this change of mind). Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of receiving Christ and becoming saved.

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to mean "turning from sin" as if we completely stop sinning and live a flawless life after we repent, yet that is not the Biblical definition of repentance. In the Bible, the word "repent" means to "change your mind." The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8) and not the essence of repentance (change of mind).

I have heard certain people say, "if you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who is completely sinless (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10) except for Jesus Christ. (Hebrew 4:15) Those who repent change their mind and agree with God that they have sinned and come short of the glory of God then place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Hence, faith alone. For someone to say they have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation but they never repented is an oxymoron, just like someone saying they truly repented but have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is also an oxymoron.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If salvation were by faith alone then that means one is saved by faith and NOTHING else.

Yet if repentance comes before faith, then that must mean salvation is not by faith alone but by repentance AND faith.

But if salvation were truly by faith alone then it would not matter if faith or repentance comes first for faith alone means faith and nothing else....in other words, order means nothing if salvation were by faith alone for "alone" would exclude repentance.

Plus there is the impossibility of unbelievers, as atheist, repenting before having faith. Sin is transgression of God's law and people repent of sin in their life make a change in turning from living ungodly in sin to living godly in Christ. Yet atheists/unbeleivers do not believe in God or His laws, nor in the concept of sin, heaven, hell or judgement day. How would an unbeliever even know to repent if he has never even heard of the concept of repentance?
If trying to convert an atheist to Christianity, does one start by trying to get him to first repent or first presude him to believe in Christ thereby understanding his lost state separated from Christ, THEN he can repent of those sins separating him from Christ?

 

[amigo de christo]

A little clarification is in order here—- Those That think their “ Obedience” is what saves them? Yes—- they are condemned to hell......Now, If one is talking about the “ Obedience of FAITH“ , and that “ Faith” is in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing to Save them.....now you are onto something.....Obedience is great, but it does not Save.....Two things save us—- #1 Christ’s Shed Blood. #2 Your Trust in #1
Do you have a song in your Church Hymnal entitled “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus?” If you do, make God happy—- tear it out of your Song Book.....

Obediance proves who we belong to and whose we are .
As you know there are many that can lip the name of Christ but are actually doing the work of this all inclusive lie
as well as other evil things . May all examine to see if the JESUS we follow , the doctrine he and later the apostles taught
is what we follow . Paul had a battle in his day and its grown massively worse in these final days .
The preaching of another jesus and another gospel is out of control in this day and age .
if the JESUS we love is another jesus we are in serious dire deception and trouble .
The call must be made , TIME to head into bibles for ourselves and stay glued in those pages
whereby one will grow wise indeed .

 

[Titus]

When Paul called on the name of the Lord.
Fact: No one after Jesus' ressurection and return to His Father in heaven,
was directly taught the gospel by Jesus Himself face to face. Nor did Jesus save any man directly.
Not one scripture can refute this Biblical fact.

Jesus taught that His gospel must be evangelized by men to other men, Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15-16.

Based on biblical hermeneutics, we must conclude Jesus did not directly save Paul on the road to Damascus. If He had Jesus would be going against His own teaching, Mark 16:15-16; Matthew 28:19-20.

This is why Jesus sent Ananias to Paul, to preach the gospel to him that he might be saved.

Paul confirms that what I am teaching is the apostles doctrine,
For Paul to call on the name of the Lord he HAD to have a man preach to him Jesus' gospel.
Romans 10:13-14,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved,
-how then shall they call on Jesus in whom they have not believed?
-and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
-and how shall they hear without a preacher?
-And how shall they preach unless they are SENT.

Jesus sent Ananias to Paul.
Three days after faith in Christ.
They only time Paul could have called on the name of the Lord is
1)when a preacher was sent to him, Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15-16; Romans 10:13-15
2)Once Ananias taught Paul how to call on the name of the Lord then and only then was his sins washed away, Acts 22:16.
3)Paul's sins were washed away three days after he believed in Jesus because Ananias came to him three days after Paul believed.

Paul was saved by Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Not by faith and no obedience

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation is by faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). This means that the moment we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation we are saved. (Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works" James 2:14). Just because a change of mind (repentance) 'precedes' saving faith in Christ does not change this fact. Nobody is implying 'faith alone' in the 'sense' that we did not repent (change our mind) first or hear the word prior to repenting. (Romans 10:17) These things 'precede' saving faith in Christ.

Prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ alone for salvation), there are those who must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9) and commonly (faith in works for salvation). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change of mind must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 11:17-18; 20:21)

 

[Titus]

If salvation were by faith alone then that means one is saved by faith and NOTHING else

Only in religion does something so self-explanatory need to be explained.
How could anybody not see this as obvious?
I think God gives the answer,
2Thessalonians 2:10-12,
-and with all unrighteousness deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
-And for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie
-that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Titus]

Salvation is by faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). This means that the moment we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation we are saved. (Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works" James 2:14). Just because a change of mind (repentance) 'precedes' saving faith in Christ does not change this fact. Nobody is implying 'faith alone' in the 'sense' that we did not repent (change our mind) first or hear the word prior to repenting. (Romans 10:17) These things 'precede' saving faith in Christ.

Prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ alone for salvation), there are those who must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9) and commonly (faith in works for salvation). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change of mind must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Acts 11:17-18; 20:21)

If salvation were by faith alone then that means one is saved by faith and NOTHING else.

Yet if repentance comes before faith, then that must mean salvation is not by faith alone but by repentance AND faith.

But if salvation were truly by faith alone then it would not matter if faith or repentance comes first for faith alone means faith and nothing else....in other words, order means nothing if salvation were by faith alone for "alone" would exclude repentance.

Plus there is the impossibility of unbelievers, as atheist, repenting before having faith. Sin is transgression of God's law and people repent of sin in their life make a change in turning from living ungodly in sin to living godly in Christ. Yet atheists/unbeleivers do not believe in God or His laws, nor in the concept of sin, heaven, hell or judgement day. How would an unbeliever even know to repent if he has never even heard of the concept of repentance?
If trying to convert an atheist to Christianity, does one start by trying to get him to first repent or first presude him to believe in Christ thereby understanding his lost state separated from Christ, THEN he can repent of those sins separating him from Christ?

 

[Titus]

Yet if repentance comes before faith, then that must mean salvation is not by faith alone but by repentance AND faith

So obvious it needs no explanation. Well, should not need explanation.

 

[mailmandan]

In regards to believing in Christ unto salvation/faith in Christ, those in the church of Christ often fail to understand that there is a deeper, more substantive aspect of faith which is believing in Jesus Christ for eternal life, and most cannot distinguish between mere 'intellectual belief' or assent from personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. This also explains why Campbellites have so much faith in "water and works" for salvation.

The church of Christ will cite that "even the demons believe" (from James 2:19) in their sermons and will contend that even the "faith of demons" is the same as any other faith "except that the faith of demons lacks good works." Their understanding gives rise to their reversal of the scriptural order of repentance and faith, and yet to the contrary, we find repentance actually "precedes" saving belief/faith:

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15 - The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent and believe the gospel.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

*NOTICE THE ORDER.*

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Work is a  job one must do to provide for his family, for even Paul said if you set down and do nothing but expect to live off til God comes you are in error. No one is to sit by and neglect living and providing for our family.

The Pharisee believed in  works but it was the works of righteousness to  appear as though they were godly. Cup clean outside yet Jesus said our righteousness must exceed those of the Pharisees.

 Works in these days are after the flesh by  appearing to be righteous. Following actions of the flesh to receive glory of man in traditions and practices that are NOT works of God.

In essence, sacraments of communion, rosary praying,worshipping saints, believing men over God,praying at the wall, baptism of infants, ect ect.

We are to show our  faith by our works of God which he will manifest through our yielding to his Spirit.
Obedience to the word,sharing the gospel,love of God and others,giving of ourselves to the unfortunate,visiting widows & orphans ect ect.
The works of God through us shows our  faith in a God of possible.

 

[Titus]

and most cannot distinguish between mere 'intellectual belief' or assent from personal faith that is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Danthemailman, you need to learn also.
No faith alone can be a trusting faith.
Look at all these acts of faith,
Do you trust repentance is for salvation? Acts 17:30-31;Acts 2:38
Do you trust Jesus when He said to enter the kingdom you must be born of water and the Spirit,
John 3:5?
Do you trust Jesus when He taught He will save you if you obey His commandment to believe and be baptized, Mark 16:15-16.
Do you believe Jesus and trust that He saves those who confess His name publicly? Matthew 10:32-33? Acts 8:37
Do you trust in Jesus? If you do you will obey Him for eternal salvation,Hebrews 5:8-9,
-though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered
-And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

True Biblical faith trust's what Jesus says, not trusting in faith itself, do you Trust His word?
John 5:24,
-Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My  word and believes in Him who sent Me, has everlasting life and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death into life.

Do you trust His commandments? Do you trust that your love is essential for salvation as His word says?
1John 5:3,
-for this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burden some.

1Corinthians 16:22,
-If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed, O Lord come.

Faith only salvation has no love for God. It is a loveless faith.It disobeys Gods commandments,
It teaches man does nothing, but believe no love for God required for that is something we must do.
For faith that saves is a faith that loves Jesus,
John 14:21,
-he who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

A faith that does not obey Gods commandments is a faith that does not love God.
Faith and no works salvation is being saved by a loveless faith.

 

[Gospel Believer]

Another way of saying it, Faith in Jesus plus no obedience =salvation. Or The gospel of salvation through disobedience to God.

That “ IS” one way to say it—- if your intelligence and insight into Spiritual Matters are limited ......Saved people with “ eyes to see and ears to hear “ know exactly what I am talking about....

 

[Gospel Believer]

@Titus

The Bible teaches that the two thieves had their legs broken so as to speed up death. However, this was not the case with Jesus, for our Lord had already died before the two thieves. In other words, the thief on the cross was no longer under the Old Covenant right before he died. The Lord Jesus Christ died before the thief! Therefore, the New Covenant was immediately in effect when the thief had died!

“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead; otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth” (Hebrews. 9:16-17) (Also see: Matthew 26:28).

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that baptism was not needed.
Even if you claim that the thief may have been water baptized (Which Scripture does not state), it would have been John’s baptism and not the baptism in Jesus’ name (Which the apostles did after the resurrection and great commission).

When Paul called on the name of the Lord.
Fact: No one after Jesus' ressurection and return to His Father in heaven,
was directly taught the gospel by Jesus Himself face to face. Nor did Jesus save any man directly.
Not one scripture can refute this Biblical fact.

Jesus taught that His gospel must be evangelized by men to other men, Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15-16.

Based on biblical hermeneutics, we must conclude Jesus did not directly save Paul on the road to Damascus. If He had Jesus would be going against His own teaching, Mark 16:15-16; Matthew 28:19-20.

This is why Jesus sent Ananias to Paul, to preach the gospel to him that he might be saved.

Paul confirms that what I am teaching is the apostles doctrine,
For Paul to call on the name of the Lord he HAD to have a man preach to him Jesus' gospel.
Romans 10:13-14,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved,
-how then shall they call on Jesus in whom they have not believed?
-and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
-and how shall they hear without a preacher?
-And how shall they preach unless they are SENT.

Jesus sent Ananias to Paul.
Three days after faith in Christ.
They only time Paul could have called on the name of the Lord is
1)when a preacher was sent to him, Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:15-16; Romans 10:13-15
2)Once Ananias taught Paul how to call on the name of the Lord then and only then was his sins washed away, Acts 22:16.
3)Paul's sins were washed away three days after he believed in Jesus because Ananias came to him three days after Paul believed.

Paul was saved by Jesus' gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Not by faith and no obedience

For the love of Pete! Why do you make this so easy?

Gal 1:2.....” I received my message from no human source , and no one taught me . Instead , I received it directly from Jesus Christ”

You post as if Ignorance were a virtue! Stop embarrassing yourself and go away......

 

[Titus]

For the love of Pete! Why do you make this so easy?

Gal 1:2.....” I received my message from no human source , and no one taught me . Instead , I received it directly from Jesus Christ”

You post as if Ignorance were a virtue! Stop embarrassing yourself and go away......

Matthew 22:29,
-Jesus answered and said to them, You do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God.

The Pharisees were always trying to catch Jesus making a mistake.
I'm fallible but not a Bible illiterate.

Paul's conversion to Christ was accomplished by the God sent preacher Ananias.
Paul's salvation story involved a man sent by God.

Galatians 1:1 has nothing to do with Paul's initial obedience to the gospel and how he was saved.
Folks who study he scriptures know Paul is talking about his appointed apostleship.
Galatians 1:1,
-Paul an apostle(not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead.

No man appointed Paul as an apostle is Paul's point!

Not by men: 12 Disciples became apostles by Holy Spirit baptism.
Jesus Himself directly Holy Spirit baptized the apostles.
Mark 1:8,
-I indeed baptized you with water but Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

God the Father promised to send the power from on high,
Luke 26:49,
-Behold I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you(11 disciples) are endued with power from on high.

Paul was not appointed apostleship the same time the rest of the disciples of jesus were in Acts 1 and 2.

But later in Acts 9.
To qualify to be an apostle you had to be an eyewitness of Jesus Christ's ressurection from the dead. This is why Jesus came directly to Paul on the road to Damascus,
Acts 1:22,
beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His ressurection. This is Matthias. But Paul had to qualify the same way.
This is why there are no apostles today.
No one can meet the qualifications. No one today is a eyewitness to Jesus on the earth after His ressurection.

No man ever appointed anyone an apostle
No man played any part in giving the apostles power from on high i.e. Holy Spirit baptism.

This is what Paul is teaching in Galatians 1:1.
Ananias preached the gospel to Paul and Paul then called on the name of the Lord, Romans 10:13-14 ; Acts 9:17-18.

Only men teach the gospel to other men ever since Jesus went back to His Fathers throne.
No man was ever saved directly from Jesus after He left this earth.
Jesus'great commission
Matthew 28:19,
-Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and if the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
Amen

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We have already been over this numerous times.

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Already you have failed the test of faith like many here. Because you don’t like what the Bible says at this point in the fact that it contradicts your theology, you seek to change what it says plainly. The Bible should not be...

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

In addition to exploiting Christ in order to promote themselves, legalists do seem to seek to draw disciples after themselves as well. @mailmandan Legalism is indeed a great danger; it detracts from 'the simplicity that is in Christ' (2 Corinthians 11.8).

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

You cannot ignore other verses at the expense of other ones. What do you make of 1 John 1:7? It also talks about being cleansed by the blood, too. You carry on believing you are doomed if you want, but I'm not falling for it so I'm using my 'ignore' option.

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

@mailmandan The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith: The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith: Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). Faith also finishes off as belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior which means we are trusting in Him ALONE for...

www.christianityboard.com

Does God expect us to obey the hundreds of NT commands on day one of our service to be saved?

To all: What was the reason why these types in Luke 13 were told to depart from the Lord? Did Jesus tell them that they did not believe on the finished work of the cross Jesus had not died on the Cross yet, in Luke 13. You dont realize this, BibleHighligher, ether because you can't read and...

www.christianityboard.com

You are like a broken record.

I'm convinced that you are a 'spiritual narcissist' who loves to hear himself talk. You seem to be puffed up on flawed knowledge and you may be under the delusion that your broken record arguments will eventually cause me to change my mind and come to agree with you, but I can assure you that it's NEVER going to happen. I absolutely reject and detest your false 'type 2 works salvation' gospel! (Galatians 1:6-9) So instead of continuing to waste my time beating a dead horse, I'm going to break out the popcorn and observe your debate with Titus.

Narcissists don’t have any empathy towards others. They are also focused on self and how they are the greatest. If there was ever a false accusation on the highest order, you just committed it. My focus in life is Christ and not myself. For I am nothing and Christ is everything. But I forgive you for your false accusation (of course). I love you in Jesus Christ but I don’t love your sin and still be saved type belief. You also repeat the same tired arguments with me. So that’s like the pot calling the kettle black.

Also, my attempt is not to change your mind but to expose your false belief as not being biblical to others who are searching for the truth.

I merely highlight the Bible and let the Word of God do the work upon men’s hearts. Let God get all the glory.