The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

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amigo de christo

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Just for the record....I thoroughly Reject the “ Hyper- Grace” Doctrine! I go with * SUPER* Hyper -Grace .....
So long as it aint that false grace so many now teach . The grace of GOD is wonderful and its a lovely gift .
But if any graces teaches folks that GOD is fine with all paths and sins and do as thou wilt , THEY aint christain .
Most these preachers and folks today must be in agreement or working to promote burger king
cause all i keep hearing from them is lots of whoppers . And it aint no whopper i am gonna sink my teeth into .
 
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Gospel Believer

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Hyper grace sect main doctrine is, sin all you want. It matters not to God.

I see that the Big Lie Of The Grace Rejecters is still alive and well......let’s see if I can set you straight on a thing or two....

You lack the intellectual capacity to understand that everybody—- including YOU —- will always do what they “ want” ......The Power Of The Gospel is that, once Believed, the Holy Spirit will make you a “ New Creation” with a New Heart—— God will change your “ Wants” so that they will line-up with “HIS” wants.....That is a Work Of God that only HE can do—- it’s that “ Inside Of The Cup” Thing That Jesus talked about....It’s True Sanctification, as God Transforms you into the “ Image Of His Son “.....Anybody can “ turn over a New Leaf” and “ Change”, but only God can Transform a Heart.....That way, God gets all the Glory for the good things this happen in the lives of those that Trust Him—- and YOU get NONE—- just the way He wants it....

Your 2nd lie says that we Believe that it does not matter to God if we sin or not.....what a stupid thing to say....Read your Bible ! Why do you think God “ Chastises” His sometimes Foolish and Disobedient Children...Nobody, and Especially Believers , “ get away” with anything.....God punishes us just like we punish our own children at times , and we do it for their own good.....so please get that knot out of your panties—- it one thinks that he can Sin and get by—— get ready for a trip to “ God’s Wood- Shed”.....Sin really DOES matter to God—- to think otherwise is just Stupid.
 

Gospel Believer

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Then tear out of your Bible 90 percent of the new testament. You are following after lawlessness,
Matthew 7:21-23,
-Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of My Father in heaven,
many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and done many wonders in thy name?
and then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me you who practise lawlessness.


The “Lawnessness” That these Self-Righteous Souls “practiced” was Trusting In What * THEY * did as opposed to Trusting in what * HE* did.....They never understood nor took to Heart the song that they mindlessly sang for years and years—- “NOTHING of myself I bring .....it’s only to the CROSS that I Cling”

Believing The Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4 is what saves......The Gospel is NOT about what man does for God—-The Gospel is what God has Done for Man......” Practicing Lawlessness” is rejecting the Gospel That Saves and trying to put Forth you own “ Good Deeds” as your means of obtaining Justification before God.... All Of “ My” Lawlessness is covered by the Blood .....theirs is not.....I put my Faith in the Blood and I am covered by Grace.....their “Lawlessness” still remains because they reject the Grace of God and the “All - Sufficient” Blood Of Jesus that could have had it all Forgiven and even Forgotten...
 

Titus

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Evidence of you doing Gods will,

3 types of laziness, physical, mental, spiritual
Physical,
2Thessalonians 3:10,
-!if any of you will not work, neither shall he eat.


Did you notice the “ lol” in my remark about “ Laziness” .....that means I was not being serious.....Humor , similar to Grace, is something Prune-Faced , Religionists just don’t understand—— and “ THAT” is no joke.....
I understand you think religion is something to look at as negative. The Bible does not teach all religion is bad. James 1:27,
-Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Lol? Is there no truth behind joking? Also, there is no way I could know you are not being literal because of lol. lol is not used only in a fictitious way.
 

Titus

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The “Lawnessness” That these Self-Righteous Souls “practiced” was Trusting In What * THEY * did as opposed to Trusting in what * HE* did.....They never understood nor took to Heart the song that they mindlessly sang for years and years—- “NOTHING of myself I bring .....it’s only to the CROSS that I Cling”

Believing The Gospel Of 1 Cor 15:1-4 is what saves......The Gospel is NOT about what man does for God—-The Gospel is what God has Done for Man......” Practicing Lawlessness” is rejecting the Gospel That Saves and trying to put Forth you own “ Good Deeds” as your means of obtaining Justification before God.... All Of “ My” Lawlessness is covered by the Blood .....theirs is not.....I put my Faith in the Blood and I am covered by Grace.....their “Lawlessness” still remains because they reject the Grace of God and the “All - Sufficient” Blood Of Jesus that could have had it all Forgiven and even Forgotten...
Yes, I know your sects doctrine. Hold only to 1Corinthians 15:1-4. The rest of the Bible is only if you want to. You do not believe in the gospel Sir. You put your trust in your false gospel of disobedience + belief alone saves. Your sect: Those who obey are condemned to hell . Those who refuse to obey are saved. No scripture, not interested.
 

Titus

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Again, I already explained it. You are conditioned to reading the verse the wrong way and you will of course not read it in such a way that would contradict your church’s view. For if it did, then you would have to find fellowship elsewhere. Seeing you don’t want to do that, you will of course read it in a way that favors what you are comfortable with believing.
Wrong, I would rebuke all my family, friends, if that was the only way to follow after God.
You keep making stuff up like you are a mind reader. I studied myself into the Lords church. I was not blindly lead into it.
 

Titus

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Again, I already explained it. You are conditioned to reading the verse the wrong way and you will of course not read it in such a way that would contradict your church’s view. For if it did, then you would have to find fellowship elsewhere. Seeing you don’t want to do that, you will of course read it in a way that favors what you are comfortable with believing.
No one conditions me! I know the scriptures!
There is only one way to rightly divide Acts 22:16.
Acts 9 gives the answer.

Paul is lost in his sins, Acts 9:1-3
Paul receives direct revelation from Jesus Himself, Acts 9:3-6
Paul is told what to do to be saved by Jesus, Acts 9:6-9
The Lord instructs Ananias to go to Paul and preach the gospel to him, Acts 9:10-16
We know Paul has not yet been saved because JESUS' GOSPEL ALWAYS HAS A PREACHER OR PERSON TEACH THE GOSPEL TO THE LOST. Jesus when His gospel was in force never went directly to men to teach them His gospel. It was commanded by Jesus for men to teach men the gospel,

Mark 16:15-16,
-Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature,....
Ananias in Paul's conversion was that man that was sent by God to preach the gospel to Paul.
Give me one example after Jesus had returned to His father in heaven where God not a man taught someone the gospel to save them?

This passage affirms what I am teaching is Biblical truth,
Romans 10:13-14,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved,
How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a  preacher.

Paul is met by Ananias who is filled with Gods Spirit.
Ananias tells Paul he is sent by God to perform a miracle on Paul...
Cause his sight to return to him,
Then commanded Paul to obey Jesus 'gospel by being baptized for the purpose of
Washing away his sins, Acts 9:17-18.

This all took place three days later after Paul was a believer!
Paul did not receive Holy Spirit baptism immediately the moment he had faith in Christ.
Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit three days later when he was taught the gospel.

This story disproves the protestant doctrine that folks receive the Holy Spirit the instant they believe!
Three days after faith Paul was still dead in his sins. For when Ananias came to him he said,
Acts 22:16,
-and now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I know how Paul was saved Bible Highlighter. It was not by your false gospel of faith alone.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Wrong, I would rebuke all my family, friends, if that was the only way to follow after God.
I am glad to hear it. But of course if you did rebuke them I would assume you would do so in love for their souls (because you want to see them saved). I am assuming you would let them know you loved them. Am I correct? 1 Corinthians 13 talks about love. It says:

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” (1 Corinthians 13:1-7) (NKJV).

You keep making stuff up like you are a mind reader.
My deepest apologies if there was not one shred of truth to what I said on this point. I misjudged you on that if that is not true. So my apologies. I just find from my experience that when certain Christians get involved in a particular denominational church, they become entrenched in a particular doctrine or beliefs that is unique to that particular church. I am glad you would leave them if it meant following after God. I hope that day comes for you.

I studied myself into the Lords church. I was not blindly lead into it.
Please take no offense. I love you in Jesus Christ, but I have heard Calvinists use similar wording. They said they knew of Calvinism from their Bible before they even knew what it was. In other words, I believe I there are certain wrong beliefs (that dark spirits) try to push upon a person’s mind that caters to their own liking or preferences (Which is a part of their personality). So if a person is more cold hearted, Calvinism will fit them well. If a person is not focused on owning up to dealing with the bad properly in their own life (according to Scripture in that we were by nature children of wrath before coming to Christ and that we were dead in Adam), and they are more focused on being a doer along with not desiring to give God’s grace His due or time for glory to shine in a person’s life, then I can see some of those who think they have studied in having a mindset similar to those who attend a big building church today that has the sign or label on called, the Church of Christ (a.k.a. Campbellitism). You see grace only shining if there is some kind of work of faith involved. I see the Bible teaches that God first saves us without works by His grace and mercy. Then after we are saved by His grace, we continue in the next step of our faith in the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life building upon the foundation of God’s grace. The issue centers around baptism. We both believe water baptism is a requirement. The difference in how we both view baptism separates us as if we were each standing on opposite sides of the grand canyon. You see water baptism as the entrance gate to salvation. The silliness of this argument is that you cannot save anyone if you were in a desert without any water. You cannot save the guy who is dying on his deathbed if he wants to be saved and he only has only 1-2 minutes to live. Yet, the thief on the cross was saved. God shown mercy before like this and to say that God would just later play respect of persons by a Covenant change is not looking at the heart of God and His unfailing love to reach the lost.

In either case, may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you (even if we do not agree).
But I must follow my convictions of what God’s Word says (Just as you believe you must follow).
For by your beliefs, you believe that I and others like me (Which are not many) who hold to the view that there are two aspects of salvation that we as believers need to be concerned in this life are in error. But what if we are right? You then would be judging us when we are correct by God and the LORD will sort it out at the Judgment. Will the LORD condemn you? Well, I leave that up to God. But I know by His Word that if we do not give God the glory involving His grace, I can see that as a major problem. I again cannot help but see the Campbellite as being pictured as being the Pharisee who did not understand grace in the “Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee” In Luke 18:9-14. How do you view that parable? Can a person just cry out to God and be saved? Or do you see that as being Old Covenant again? What do you do with Romans 10:13?
 

Titus

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denominational church,
Not in a denomination.
1 Corinthians 13 talks about love. It says
I agree. Rebuking is for others just as for self.

You claim Paul was not saved when he was baptized three days later after faith in Christ by Ananias.
This is the short answer to why he was saved in his water baptism not by faith alone as you teach.

Jesus never saved anyone directly after He returned to His Father in heaven after His ressurection.

Paul was told to call on the name of the Lord by Ananias not Jesus! Acts 22:16.
Paul is the one who said that to call on the name of the Lord one had to have a preacher.
This could be any person that would teach/preach the gospel to the lost.

Put it together Bible Highlighter. Your eyes will be opened.

Acts 22:16,
-Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Now Pay attention to Paul teach how the lost call on His name, this is taught by men just like Paul was with Ananias.
Romans 10:13-14;15,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
-How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Paul taught you Bible Highlighter that he did not call on the name of the Lord on the road to Damascus! Paul called on His name when the gospel preacher Ananias spoke the gospel of Jesus Christ to him.

Your false gospel of Paul being saved by faith alone is refuted.

 
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Bible Highlighter

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No one conditions me! I know the scriptures!
But what if we conditioned ourselves to a wrong way of thinking that we prefer to hear?
I am at least willing to admit when I am wrong with the Scriptures and I strive to say open to God’s correction on what His Word says.
For it is by God’s Word that we are to be corrected by (2 Timothy 3:16).

I have changed on 21 theologically things in God’s Word over the years because I am willing to admit when I am wrong.


I don’t believe many today are willing to do that. Call it pride or a certain mode of thinking they prefer that caters to their personality or preferences. My goal is to believe and obey God’s Word to the uttermost last detail.


There is only one way to rightly divide Acts 22:16.
Acts 9 gives the answer.

Paul is lost in his sins, Acts 9:1-3
Paul receives direct revelation from Jesus Himself, Acts 9:3-6
Paul is told what to do to be saved by Jesus, Acts 9:6-9
The Lord instructs Ananias to go to Paul and preach the gospel to him, Acts 9:10-16
We know Paul has not yet been saved because JESUS' GOSPEL ALWAYS HAS A PREACHER OR PERSON TEACH THE GOSPEL TO THE LOST. Jesus when His gospel was in force never went directly to men to teach them His gospel. It was commanded by Jesus for men to teach men the gospel,

Mark 16:15-16,
-Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature,....
Ananias in Paul's conversion was that man that was sent by God to preach the gospel to Paul.
Give me one example after Jesus had returned to His father in heaven where God not a man taught someone the gospel to save them?
Again, the gospel cannot include baptism because Paul distinguishes between the gospel and baptism in 1 Corinthians 1:17.
As I told you before, I believe the word “and” starts a new thought in Acts 22:16.
For example: It would be like Rick telling Bob: ”Hey, show up tomorrow at my house at 9:00am and bring sunscreen, and we will have fun golfing for the day. I see it the same way as what it says in Acts 22:16. Before the word AND…it is setting up what is to happen before the next instruction or thing can take place. Ananias is saying to Saul (Paul) AFTER the AND that he is to wash away his sins by calling upon the name of the LORD. The having fun part is tied to golfing just as the washing away one’s sins is tied to calling upon the name of the Lord (of which we read in Romans 10:13). In Romans 10:13, no baptism is mentioned. For Paul came not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). Granted, we are to be water baptized. It just not the gospel, though.


This passage affirms what I am teaching is Biblical truth,
Romans 10:13-14,
-For whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved,
How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a  preacher.

Paul is met by Ananias who is filled with Gods Spirit.
Ananias tells Paul he is sent by God to perform a miracle on Paul...
Cause his sight to return to him,
Then commanded Paul to obey Jesus 'gospel by being baptized for the purpose of
Washing away his sins, Acts 9:17-18.

This all took place three days later after Paul was a believer!
Paul did not receive Holy Spirit baptism immediately the moment he had faith in Christ.
Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit three days later when he was taught the gospel.
Again, in Romans 10: nothing is mentioned about baptism by Paul about how to first get saved. He says to call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved and no baptism is mentioned along with that.


This story disproves the protestant doctrine that folks receive the Holy Spirit the instant they believe!
Three days after faith Paul was still dead in his sins. For when Ananias came to him he said,
Acts 22:16,
-and now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
It was the calling upon the name of the Lord part that saved. Not the baptism or arising part.

I know how Paul was saved Bible Highlighter. It was not by your false gospel of faith alone.
Over the past week (After rereading 1 Corinthians 15 again) I am actually considering seriously now that 1 Corinthians 15:10 is included in the gospel along with the proceeding verses (1 Corinthians 15:1-9). This means that Paul laboring more than his brethren by the grace of God (Jesus and being moved by the love of God) is a part of the good news or gospel (Which includes believing that Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and risen the third day along with Jesus being seen by the other apostles). But I see that our being initially saved is not by works but by a belief in the gospel message and or Christ for salvation. This can involve calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus seeking forgiveness of one’s past life of sin with Him (Romans 10:13). But a person can be a son of God just by believing in the name of Jesus Christ (John 1:12). Anyways, I believe the gospel or good news is not just in our initial salvation but it continues in our life. This good news is Jesus Christ who moves in our life to labor in love towards others (Seeking to save them out of love for their souls). Are we looking at those around us as if they should perish like Jonah because they are God’s enemies? Or are we looking at people in love and desiring them to change and repent? Are we pleading with them in love because we truly care for them?
 

Titus

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Again, in Romans 10: nothing is mentioned about baptism by Paul about how to first get saved. He says to call upon the name of the Lord and you will be saved and no baptism is mentioned along with that.
No need for it to mention baptism.
As you have already been taught, Paul had Ananias a gospel preacher teach him how to call on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16,
Jesus does not teach the gospel directly to anyone after He went back to His Father in heaven.
Calling on the name of the Lord can only occur when someone has been taught the gospel.
Paul teaches men, preachers teach the gospel to men, Romans 10:13-14.
Paul said this because Ananias taught him how to call on the name of the Lord.

Paul could have only called on the name of the Lord three days after he believed in Jesus on the road to Damascus. Therefore his sins were washed away when Ananias the preacher taught him 3 days after faith in Christ.
Your gospel is false, it does not fit with Bible teaches.
 

Gospel Believer

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They are all in the same boat headed towards the same waterfall. Not one scripture.
No Scripture ? Lol.....that’s The exact same lie that you said in regard to me not providing Scripture to prove that the Blood Of Jesus did not cover “ Unbelief”......

As far as Scripture is concerned in regard to Grace? Try this one on for sure......it’s yet another example of shooting fish in a barrel.....you really dint know much about the Bible, Do you ?

“where Sin abounds, Grace abounds that much more”.....The Confused and perhaps Lost man sees that as an invitation to Sin.....those of us with New Hearts know better.....knowing that Jesus died for ALL of my Sins and there is now no sin that could ever damn me because of that Truth —— Having the knowledge of that makes me want to sin less—- not more......ain’t Christianity crazy? Not really.....it just seems that way to those that lack “ eyes to see”....
 

Titus

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No Scripture ? Lol.....that’s The exact same lie that you said in regard to me not providing Scripture to prove that the Blood Of Jesus did not cover “ Unbelief”......

As far as Scripture is concerned in regard to Grace? Try this one on for sure......it’s yet another example of shooting fish in a barrel.....you really dint know much about the Bible, Do you ?

“where Sin abounds, Grace abounds that much more”.....The Confused and perhaps Lost man sees that as an invitation to Sin.....those of us with New Hearts know better.....knowing that Jesus died for ALL of my Sins and there is now no sin that could ever damn me because of that Truth —— Having the knowledge of that makes me want to sin less—- not more......ain’t Christianity crazy? Not really.....it just seems that way to those that lack “ eyes to see”....
Not interested. Not reading your posts.
 

Gospel Believer

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I understand you think religion is something to look at as negative. The Bible does not teach all religion is bad. James 1:27,
-Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Lol? Is there no truth behind joking? Also, there is no way I could know you are not being literal because of lol. lol is not used only in a fictitious way.


James is correct, of course.....please take note that he doesn’t say that these things Save a person....I am talking about Salvation, which is by Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing...
 

Titus

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James is correct, of course.....please take note that he doesn’t say that these things Save a person....I am talking about Salvation, which is by Faith in Jesus Plus Nothing...
Another way of saying it, Faith in Jesus plus no obedience =salvation. Or The gospel of salvation through disobedience to God.
 

Gospel Believer

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Yes, I know your sects doctrine. Hold only to 1Corinthians 15:1-4. The rest of the Bible is only if you want to. You do not believe in the gospel Sir. You put your trust in your false gospel of disobedience + belief alone saves. Your sect: Those who obey are condemned to hell . Those who refuse to obey are saved. No scripture, not interested.

A little clarification is in order here—- Those That think their “ Obedience” is what saves them? Yes—- they are condemned to hell......Now, If one is talking about the “ Obedience of FAITH“ , and that “ Faith” is in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing to Save them.....now you are onto something.....Obedience is great, but it does not Save.....Two things save us—- #1 Christ’s Shed Blood. #2 Your Trust in #1
Do you have a song in your Church Hymnal entitled “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus?” If you do, make God happy—- tear it out of your Song Book.....
 

Gospel Believer

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Not interested. Not reading your posts.
I know you are not a liar and therefore you will never read this , but it’s like Paul said—- “ If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant” .....you said you wanted verses so now are you happy,Pappy?
 

Bible Highlighter

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@Titus

The Bible teaches that the two thieves had their legs broken so as to speed up death. However, this was not the case with Jesus, for our Lord had already died before the two thieves. In other words, the thief on the cross was no longer under the Old Covenant right before he died. The Lord Jesus Christ died before the thief! Therefore, the New Covenant was immediately in effect when the thief had died!

“For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead; otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth” (Hebrews. 9:16-17) (Also see: Matthew 26:28).

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that baptism was not needed.
Even if you claim that the thief may have been water baptized (Which Scripture does not state), it would have been John’s baptism and not the baptism in Jesus’ name (Which the apostles did after the resurrection and great commission).